(Topic ID: 233662)

Single Coin Tech Help

By statictrance

1 year ago

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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by 29REO
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    #1 1 year ago

    Hello All -

    I'm writing here because I recently met a Father/Son duo near me that have recently purchased a bingo machine (Bally Single Coin) that is nearly there, but not quite fully working. I went over and did a whole host of tests, and while most of the machine is functioning, I can't seem to get it to score or step up when a bingo line is made. I'm a pinball guy and have never been in a bingo machine before - so I'm pretty familiar with the pieces (switches/steppers/motors/coils/etc), but the actual operation of the game is brand new.

    I've attached a picture for reference... These six large discs at the bottom do absolutely nothing and the game will not 'score' or add to the credit window. Here is what I know so far (coupled with my understanding of the functionality). If anyone has any idea of what to look at, I'd greatly appreciate the assist.

    - The game starts fine when a coin is dropped (or start relay triggered)
    - The arch switch starts the timer stepper. The customer asked for this timer to be disabled for home use, so I slightly bent the switch on the motor that triggers the timer set up. Scoring was not working before this modification
    - The balls trigger a little switch in each hole which then lights the bingo cards (all switches are working)
    - When a button is pressed on the lock down bar, it initiates a search function. This kicks both the 1-2-3 scanner and 4-5-6 scanner sequentially. If held, it keeps scanning
    - As it scans - there are 5 smaller coils/switch stacks that are all functioning, checked for proper gaps, and making contact when balls are in various holes.

    However - at this point, the machine does nothing else. If the timer motor is engaged, it just sits until the timer stops it. Otherwise, it'll keep going until turned off.

    - I checked all six bottom mechs and wipers - all steppers work when manually activated to step up - if they are not at the zero position, the coin drop/start up sequence does engage the other coil to zero all six out.
    - All other steppers function as expected when manually moved
    - Credits will decrement on start up (6 of them for the six cards) if credits are on the wheel on start up.

    Bingo Head (resized).jpeg
    #2 1 year ago

    There are no production games called "Single Coin" - they are modified (usually) Bally six cards.

    I'm guessing this is a 1970s model since there is a c button on the lock bar to press.

    The typical operation is such that the user presses the C button, the search discs turn, and when three or more relays are engaged at once, the search index relay pulls in, stopping the search disc at the point where the user has a winner. The backglass will flash double or nothing, and the user needs to press the D button for a chance at double or the R button to take the regular amount of replays.

    These single coin machines were changed in many different ways from the standard method of operation. Looking at the photo, I know a couple of machine that it is not, but I don't recognize what machine it is right off the bat. Are there 28 holes on the playfield? This will help me to pull the right paperwork for review.

    Shoot-A-Line was the only 28 hole machine, and the scoring works a little bit differently than in other games. There is also no D or R button side by side on the left, only an R button on the right.

    Disabling the timer stepup in that machine can cause other problems, potentially. Knowing the game I can advise for sure.

    #4 1 year ago

    Ok... I know it went to 28, and only cards 4-6 had 26, 27, 28. It must be a shoot a Line then.

    You also mentioned a search index relay. So even when we put balls in a five in a line (or three or four or like 13 balls at once even), the search would run a full rotation of the 1-2-3, then the 4-5-6 and then stop. Maybe that's the issue right there - but how different is the theory of op on Shoot a Line?

    I'm glad you mentioned there isn't a D or R (I'd have to check the right side to even see what's there. They are building a new cab for it as the original was pretty rough. The head is in good shape, so none of that was shifted around.

    I can get the timer back into play if it's needed. I noticed when the timer kicked around to reset, it may not have been resetting the whole way, so if the timer is needed, that stepper will need removed and cleaned.

    Thank you again in advance - I really appreciate your help on this and I'm sure my client will as well.

    #5 1 year ago

    On Shoot a line, the timer is less useful than just about any other game. If the search relays are chattering, it should be ok. If it just won't score, make sure the timer is on the 4th position, just to rule that out.

    I wouldn't run it that way, but shoot a line has a problem where it will time out and cannot be revived even if you have a winner. Not a great design. It's the only game like that. Others can restart the search even if they time out. So I can see why the customer would want it disabled.

    Shoot a line scores by latching various parts of the control unit in a similar way to the other games. It has two coils that are in a hard to access area with switch stacks whose adjustment is critical---! to making it score.

    These are located at the top of the back door behind the control unit. There are coils for 2x and 4x. Both need to be able to pull. IIRC, 4x only pulls on yellow line wins, and 2x pulls for any other win.

    Test those coils. Make sure if they pull, they change the state of the switch stack appropriately. Again, if I recall, the coils pulse, the unit rotates, and the switches remain in the active position until the cam finishes rotating. The coils may not be made to be active for very long.

    The manuals and schematic for shoot a line are on bingo.cdyn.com. Good luck and let us know if we can help further.

    #6 1 year ago

    the next step after the search wipers are released is the 1-2-3 or 4-5-6 search index coil needs to power and hold the search wipers on the winning rivets.

    if neither of those coils appears to be doing anything when you have a win on cards 1-3 or 4-6, then the common part of the circuit is suspect. Look at the stuff around schem K20. If you slap a voltmeter between wires 50 and 70 (50V fuse or fat orange wire on any handy 50V coil) and don't see 50V, you've got a problem.

    don't forget there's plug connections in the circuit too, so low voltage could be dirty plug pins or poor clamping force.

    you can grab a search wiper arm and stop/slow the wiper rotation on a position where three adjacent search relays are powered. If you look at manual page 13-16 it'll tell you the positions were the lines are checked. However, if all the search relays are chattering and you're pretty sure the contacts on them are ok, you can just jumper from wire 50 (or 30) directly onto 52-2, 53-2 or 54-2 and the search relays will be bypassed.

    goal is to get the search wipers to stop. After that, the score index relays BPC talked about should power and release the associated cams for payout.

    #7 1 year ago

    This definitely gives me enough to head over and give it another hour or two to test further. Thank you both so much for the detailed analysis!

    One thing I did wonder - Would there be any major concern regarding Voltage that is too high? I did measure (albeit at the fuse block) when I was there - and I remember all of them reading high. Some weren't too bad (like 121 instead of 115), but others were really high (I think the 50 was in the low to mid 60s, 17 was around 28, and 5v was at around 12 I think. I had the customer write it down since I wasn't 100% sure I'd be back - but I remembered taking note of that. I used earth ground in a plug strip to confirm the voltages as correct as the machine has not had grounding mods done yet.

    3 weeks later
    #8 1 year ago

    Hello, this is the father, of the father son team previously mentioned. The shoot a line has been such a fun project and has turned out really good. We are grateful for all the input and all the help from Statictrance. Through his last recommendation , we have put a lot of hours in cleaning switches and the search disks, in an attempt to get it scoring. And it has worked to an extent. It’s is scoring consistent to a chart we found for the most part. We have tried many combinations of 3-4-5 in a lines on different cards and even the yellow lines. Most score correct to the chart. What is incorrect is the yellow line on the third card, it doesn’t score anything 3-4 or 5 in a line. Also the fifth card only scores 3 in a line for all hits except the yellow line that is correct for 3 in a line but not for 4-5 in a line. Also the sixth card isn’t scoring proper for 4-5 in a line. All other scores are correct and we are enjoying playing it. Any advice on how to correct the few scoring problems would be appreciated. Thanks again , I didn’t think it was possible to bring this 55 year old machine back.

    #9 1 year ago

    when a yellow line doesn't pay at all, first things to check is the yellow line relay switch contacts for the card that doesn't work. Easiest way is to stick paper under the wiper fingers on the score disc (called a "replay counter unit" on most bingos) for that card, then use an ohmmeter with game power off on the selection unit disc and score disc wires while manually closing the yellow line relay.

    for example, for a card 3 yellow line problem, stick ohmmeter probes on wire 50-3 and 18-6 (see diagrams in manual) and manually close the yellow line relay. You should get almost zero ohms.

    when 3-in-line works but 4+ in line doesn't, set up a 4+ in line win and look at two things:
    - while it's paying 3-in-line, are four adjacent search relays powered or just three. If 3, problem is likely on the search disc.
    - if four search relays were powered and after the 3 payout completes, push your finger down on the score disc wipers and wiggle when the game is scanning for wins. If the search wipers stop again and the game starts paying - and pays when you mess with the wiper pressure - clean off the printed circuit traces so they are shiny copper and make sure the wipers are pressing down on the traces. Don't use something too abrasive - you don't want scratches in the copper.

    if you have the score discs unscrewed from the back door and flipped around for easy access, please take hi-res pictures of the contact plate. My manual oddly doesn't show the copper trace details. If you push in the reset plunger, you should be able to spin the wipers freely to get them out of the way and use something like 0000 synthetic steel wool and denatured alcohol to clean off the traces.

    #10 1 year ago

    Thanks so much for the information, we will definitely try those suggestions . Also is there a reason that the machine scores consistently , but low on certain 4-5 in a line?

    #11 1 year ago

    for an underpay, is it paying:
    1] the correct amount for a lesser pay - e.g. is it paying the 3-in-line score for a 4+-in-line?
    2] is it paying some number of credits less than the correct amount, but more than the correct pay for a lesser win?

    [1] usually means a problem with win detection - search relays now powering or switches on search relays bad - but could be [2] below on 4+ wins.
    [2] usually is a problem with poor wiper<->trace contact on a replay counter. The pay stops when the crud causes a break in the circuit partway along a trace.

    a typical trace-style replay counter is below (shoot-a-line has different patterns and some 1/2 sized ones). Payout stops when the counter-clockwise moving wipers step off the end of the "hot" payout trace. For 4+ wins, the 3-in-line trace(s) are also active.

    misadjusted replay cams index unit switches can cause burning/pitting at regular intervals along the traces, and eventually loss of connection at the burns.

    could also be someone has wired the replay counters in a way that doesn't match the score card. There as a FO-259A document in the instruction envelope that explained how to change the payouts. I don't have that.

    replaycounter (resized).jpg

    #12 1 year ago

    Thank you again for the info, we tried the ohmmeter with your instructors, it didn’t read at all with the paper under the fingers and manually closing the yellow line relay. Also when we tried a 4 in a line on the fifth card and it only scored three in a line , we applied pressure and it scored properly. As for the underpaying I’m sending two pictures, one from a video I found of someone playing a shoot a line. Our machine seems to follow its scoring chart better than the one original to the machine. The first picture is the payouts our machine does. The black numbers are correct and the red are incorrect to this chart.

    473D89BB-1BB7-4AFF-8917-2AA94D0E1C89 (resized).jpeg084ED57A-971D-4D89-A96D-95E45E203A13 (resized).jpeg

    #13 1 year ago

    Hello again, I have tried to clean the fifth and sixth scoring disks as you suggested, with some success. I’m sending another picture of how our machine is paying out. You’ll notice the red areas,(the incorrect payouts) is down from 10 to 6..

    E3ED1AA5-D39C-4F64-9A95-35445A38F56D (resized).jpeg
    #14 1 year ago

    card 3 yellow not scoring sounds like the yellow line relay switch C - see manual page 20. Clean/adjust the switch and verify with the ohmmeter if you want. You care about the center/moving blade to the blade it touches when pushing the relay armature/plate onto the coil top. A properly adjusted switch has the contacts touch, then the moving blade keeps going a little and moves both blades. That "overtravel" helps scrub the contacts.

    for the rest, it's a little hard to say without good diagram/pictures of the replay counter units - you'd need to unscrew the unit from the door and take a picture of the wipers/contact plate.

    on all the cards wire 52-2 is 3-in-line, 53-2 is 4-in-line and 54-2 is 5-in-line. You can look at the diagrams in the manual to see where those wire attach if the colors are hard to make out.

    couple thoughts from guesses looking at the schematic:

    - on card 5, how many search relays are powered when you have a 4 or 5-in-line win? If only three, poor wiper<->rivet contact on the search disc is likely. If the correct number of search relays are powered, then check the wiring on the replay counter wipers. Give them a tug....if you pull them off, they were broken anyway.

    - the schematic implies there's adjust plugs on the replay counters (or maybe they are on the back door. I don't have high enough res pictures to see what the back door ones are). Yank the plugs, squeeze the sockets hard, and push the plugs back in. if the plug pins have black crud on them, clean that off with something that won't scratch the metal like a scotchbrite pad or steel wool. You mainly care about the inside/outside tangent points that the socket tabs actually touch...most of the pin surface isn't electrically useful. You can't easily clean the sockets and it doesn't seem necessary - they scrape clean if the pins are in tight.

    - for card 6 runaway payout, can you manually step the replay counter unit all the way up to the flat spot in the white ratchet, or is the center spring wound too tight and the unit is unable to step that far? If it can't make it to the flat spot where the wipers should have stepped off the copper trace, payout won't stop.

    if you're bored, high res pictures of the inside of the game is always helpful. Post 'em here or email to bingopics@cdyn.com. Videos are good too, tho usually too big to email so contact me for alternatives or use a shared folder on dropbox/google drive/onedrive/etc.

    #15 1 year ago

    Thank you again for your time. I will get some pictures of the score disks in question. We have taken this machine from having lamanet glued to the entire cabinet and completely painted it. We cleaned the inside switches search disks etc, took apart the play field , waxed it with new rubbers on it. Sprayed the back glass to minimize further flaking. But we really have not taken anything apart to clean. I have my own concrete business so the things above didn’t scare me at all. But the wiring and removing parts is foreign to me, even adjusting switches seems complicated . I have been able to follow your instruction with some success and again I’m grateful for your time. I never thought it would score to this extent. If at all .

    76DAC006-44C1-4E24-BA4F-97D4939F1586 (resized).jpegBE60F6D7-7511-4E34-8B37-B7DCDAA8BF23 (resized).jpeg
    #16 1 year ago

    that paint job looks better than the original game

    adjusting switches is easier if you have an adjuster tool that you can get from pinball parts places. 90 degree and 45 degree ends are the most useful… but needle nose pliers work if you just need to fiddle with a couple and you have room to get the plier jaws in.

    bend the non-moving blade where it enters the stack. Rarely you'll need to bend the moving blade to fix previous work or if the moving blade needs to supply pressure to something and it's gotten weak.

    make sure the switch stack screws are snugged down before adjusting, but don't crank too hard. The screws are pretty soft and you can shear them off - especially the longest ones. You snug the screw closest to the switch blades first.

    #17 1 year ago

    Looking good Bingo412 - I'm extremely glad to see it's coming together with the general disc cleaning and you're not rooting out the gremlins. The finished cabinet paint looks awesome as well!

    #18 1 year ago

    Thanks for the compliments, we’ve had so much fun working on it. I tried to manually step the 6th disk, and the picture shows where it stops. Then it pulses and keeps scoring. The spring on it tightens and will not allow it to go any further. Is there a way to adjust the spring? Also there is a picture of the 5th disk, it stops after paying out a three of a kind even when there is a four or five of a kind. With your instructions I applied the smallest amount of pressure on the fingers and it moves through that point and scores correctly. Not sure how to keep pressure on it. Also sending two pictures of the relays, the one by itself is marked yellow line. Thanks again. The first picture is the sixth disk.

    17FD308F-1C04-4FEF-B596-3FA743460DD0 (resized).jpeg631C4DD1-ADA2-45B9-A3D8-D170CEF41961 (resized).jpeg7001EDDA-5ECD-4C31-89EF-B016431667BF (resized).jpeg7AA36CB7-D917-4C06-BA40-A363CFEDCC5F (resized).jpeg
    #19 1 year ago

    Also thanks again statictrance for all your help and getting us hooked up on here. You should come over and play it. And I love to see the machines you have. It’s amazing how much Knowledge is out there, and people are willing to share. It’s awesome.

    #20 1 year ago

    the switches on the yellow relay are pretty rare. There's kinda two moving blades, but the best you can do with the one that isn't poking thru the brown switch lifter is make sure it resting hard against the short blade when the relay plate/armature is up/off the coil top, and clean the contacts.

    since you can't easily get to the switches in the back, you either remove the entire relay from the back door and spin it around for access, or you have to remove the front stack. Since it's a single relay, I'd take it off the back door I you ever need to. Your problem is card 3, so you can access the problem switch directly - it's the second one from the right on the tall stack in the back. Try cleaning the contacts. If the flat one is pitted, you may need to file it. You're guaranteed to have overtravel since you need it to push the left blade away from the short one.

    interesting repair for the burnt traces...solder a hunk of copper on top. I guess it works if the wiper contact goes down the lip without losing the connection.

    To improve the wiper<->trace contact, there's three things:
    - make sure the traces are shiny copper by scrubbing with a scotchbrite pad. I use some contact cleaner/lube on the traces after to help slow oxidation.

    - reset the wipers and remove the center screw. While holding the white nylon ratchet so it can't move away from the unit frame (more important when putting the wipers back), pull off the wipers and you can bend all the fingers down a little. They contacts should all be roughly in the same plane. You don't want a ton of pressure on the traces as that will make resetting harder.

    - clean any crud off the wiper contacts

    for the unit that can't step up due to the center spring tension:

    1] unhook the center spring from the peg, unwind and take it off.

    2] clean the spring with something like alcohol so the coils aren't sticking together

    3] spin the ratchet/wipers and make sure the wipers move freely. If they seem sticky, remove them and spin the ratchet. If that's sticky, you need to remove it, clean it, and the hole it goes thru. No lube needed on plastic parts. You're probably lucky and can just pull out the ratchet while holding the arms/pawls away from it....no switches hanging out over the ratchet.

    4] put stuff back on. The rule of thumb is you want 1.5 to 2 turns of tension on the spring and there's 4 holes in the ratchet you can hook the spring end into. Put the wipers in the reset position, hook the spring in a hole, wind it around and put it on the post. Test that the unit will reset from the first step and you can step it up all the way.

    if you do remove wipers and let the ratchet move far enough from the frame for the stop barb to disengage the stop, the center spring tension will unwind. Not a big deal. Take off the center spring, position the ratchet correctly against the stop, install the wipers and install the center spring.

    one of these years we'll post short video of this kind of stuff...way easier to see than read all the above. Maybe a youtube channel.

    #21 1 year ago

    That’s a lot of information, thanks so much. I will try these suggestions and let you know what happens. So much of this old game is scoring correctly I’m almost afraid of trying to get it 100 percent and breaking something that is working. I really enjoy working on it ,so thanks again.

    1 week later
    #22 1 year ago

    So I finally got around to trying the suggestions, the sixth card five in a line does stop at the proper spot now that the spring is looser. The spring does seem a little too loose but works well. The fifth card still only scores a three of a kind unless pressure is applied to wiper. Also cleaning the switches on the yellow line relay did not work and while cleaning the scoring units I knocked a yellow wire off number three and that card does not score at all . I bought some new wire and tried to hold it to the proper leads to see if it scores before soldering it on , but it does nothing.
    It’s the first time I had something working and then broke it. I have some pictures of the wire I bought and the unit with the wire missing as well as number two with proper wires. Even if I can just fix what I broke I’d be good. Thanks again.

    4E629260-A3C2-4990-8FC2-373AA40EA0B2 (resized).jpeg99DF3A07-01DB-4D18-8FF0-46CCAE59D316 (resized).jpeg52045854-FAA3-4072-8699-C720C7B05ED9 (resized).jpeg
    #23 1 year ago

    if you knocked a wire off that easily, it wasn't doing much anyway and may have been your yellow scores problem. The yellow wire is only for the yellow scores. Solder the one on card 3 the same as the one on card 2. Check the red wire soldering to the finger also...doesn't look too healthy in the pic.

    white 3-in-line payout is the wiper finger with the red wire. Electrically, you want the lug wire on the 3L pad to connect to the lug wire on the A pad (under the wipers in the pic). For debugging, jumper from the A pad lug to:
    - 3L pad
    - both ends of the red wire
    - wiggle the red wire/end wiper finger down on the printed circuit trace

    that'll tell you where the bad connection is.

    for card 5, did you remove the wiper and clean the contacts, bend down the fingers a little, and clean the contact plate really well? If you do take off the wiper, please post pics of the back side of the wipers and the contact plate with no wipers installed.

    1 week later
    #24 1 year ago

    Hello again, I did solder a new yellow wire on the proper spots and the yellow line now works perfectly. Also put a little on the other wires on that score disk, but no luck, the third card that once worked perfectly , does not. I made a long wire and held it on the areas you talked about with a three of a kind on the board and someone pushing the score button but got nothing. I’m not sure if I followed what you suggested but I did the above thinking that’s what you meant by debugging? Did not understand the last part about wiggle suggestion. I also did not take number 5 score disk apart yet but I will with pictures. I had the number three off to solder. If I’m not understanding what to do , I apologize, it’s still foreign to me. The third card and the 4-5of a kind on he fifth is all that’s wrong . Thank you again for all your time. Sending a couple pictures of the 3 rd disk.

    4DAEC674-37ED-4339-9194-E13967C1E1E1 (resized).jpeg9855E359-2F17-45CB-B23B-9E60622A1F14 (resized).jpeg
    #25 1 year ago

    Since my last post, I’ve been playing the machine at night, last night I had several hits on the game and everything scored well. Except the third card , and probably my fifth card problems, I didn’t have that hit. But tonight I had a four in line on the first card and got nothing. So I tried several combinations and nothing works on the first three cards, not even my yellow line on the third card that just began to work after soldering. Not sure what happened by playing it but I definitely lost the first three cards altogether.

    #26 1 year ago

    you're having fun

    referring to the attached image, win detection requires getting the appropriate search index coil to power. The diagram shows the 1-2-3 search index and the path for a 3-in-line win on card 1.

    the transformer "hot" from the fuse is the orange wire 70 on the bottom and has a 4-5-6 search index switch in it, but otherwise there's nothing else. The transformer neutral/ground is yellow wire 30 on top and you need to be able to walk a closed path from there down along the yellow highlight to the top of the 1-2-3 search index coil.

    normally I debug with a voltmeter, but in this case you have an annoying problem. The search wipers are spinning, so the circuits in the red box keep connecting/disconnecting … and that causes the search relay switches in the blue cloud to keep opening closing.

    you have three choices:

    1] hold the search wipers with your hand on the winning rivets. In this method you can verify the search relays are powering and you could use a voltmeter with one probe on wire 70 and the other everywhere along the yellow path to find where the 50V disappeared or dropped a lot.

    2] disconnect the 120V control motor and use a jumper to reconnect it. After setting up the game with it connected, unhook it and then you can manually turn the search wipers to the position to detect the win and go from there as above. Not ideal because you typically want to avoid the 120V circuits.

    both those require figuring out from the chart in the manual the position the search wipers need to be at to detect the win....or you just turn the wipers slowly until three adjacent search relays are powered and that's the spot. It's easier … at least initially … to:

    3] use the jumper wire(s) to bypass the parts of the circuit that are changing and/or directly connect wire 30 "down further".

    I'd suggest [3] after setting up a 3-in-line win on card 1.

    - get a jumper wire and connect one end to wire 30 on the transformer. Usually wire 30 is looping between two lugs on the transformer … in your case, the top lugs (on games where the transformer is mounted horizontally, wire 30 is on the upper and lower lugs on the right side). I don't have a good pic to verify the transformer wiring on your game. Wire 30 is also on one side of the slam tilt switch on the back door in case you can tell the difference between solid yellow wire 30 and a red/yellow wire on the other slam tilt switch blade.

    - put the other end of the jumper anywhere along the yellow path. Suggest wire 52-2 on the replay counter for the card you set up a 3-in-line white win on and scan for a win. If that doesn't work, move jumper to wire 40-2 on the selection disc and try again. If still no good, try attaching to wire 91-2 on the search disc and you don't need to bother releasing the search wipers.

    for all those wires, see the diagrams in the manual to figure out where the wires are since the wire colors may be hard to see.

    that should tell you where the problem is roughly and you go from there. You can use the jumper between any two points you choose along the yellow path to narrow it down more.

    make sense?

    win_detect (resized).png

    #27 1 year ago

    Yes, and thank you. So we found that the relay on the 1-2-3 search disk was not working. When we adjusted the screw a little, it scored several hits properly on the first and second card and the yellow line on the third card.( but not the third card, separate problem). But after a few tries it began to glitch one credit at a time. To much adjustment and it searches without scoring, too much the other way and will not search. We puta new spring on it thinking it might hold our adjustment better but no luck. Oddly the 4-5-6 seems to work even though it appears there is a piece of wood broke off in the switch stack. I’m sending 4 pictures , 2 are the 4-5-6 with the broken piece of wood and 2 of the 1-2-3 with the piece of wood in tact and the screw we adjusted.

    0A218F64-8207-4C4B-A8B5-46948BE48591 (resized).jpeg0B9350F6-4404-40E1-86E9-0ED6C67C8553 (resized).jpeg6A479367-97E4-401B-89B0-F1A96E21DA6E (resized).jpeg944682BD-FE69-4ECC-BFF6-FDEC0B6A4EBF (resized).jpeg
    #28 1 year ago

    the broken off bar was bakelite … a form of plastic. Without that, the switches won't move when the relay is powered.

    there's three switches on each search index unit.

    A] opens start relay circuit so you can't start a new game during payout. Looks like they have both permanently open, so they must have jumpered around this someplace else

    B] prevents the other search index unit from powering. This should never be an issue since only one search wiper is supposed to spin at a time. Permanently closed is ok

    C] the top switches … hmmm … probably the worst that happens is when you get a win on cards 4-6, the 1-2-3 search relay may power. Since the 1-2-3 search wipers aren't connecting anything, that's kinda harmless.

    the screw adjust sets how far below the metal ratchet teeth the relay armature lip sinks. The timing is pretty important, and you want the lip to barely clear the teeth as they are spinning by as that minimizes the amount of time it takes for the wipers to stop once the coil is powered. The adjust is:

    1] loosen index unit and position it so when the armature grabs a ratchet tooth (hold the armture down on coil top), it stops the search wiper contacts about 2/3 of the way across the rivet. Release search wipers and manually spin them a bit, then apply rotational force while sliding the index unit up/down to adjust where the contacts stop. Tighten index unit.

    2] adjust screw for mimimal clearance

    3] if you can't get to the switches with an adjuster, remove the unit and manually push the armature down on the coil top. Adjust the switch blades for proper switch operation - gap and overtravel after contacts touch, then reinstall per [1] or mark the position first.

    the trick is to get the search index coil armature to grab the right ratchet tooth to stop the wipers on the winning rivets. If the index unit is positioned poorly or the armature is adjusted down below the ratchet too far, the wrong tooth is grabbed or the wiper contacts are falling off the edge of the winning rivets.

    the spring tension can't be too much or when the search index coil is powered and the resistor is swapped in to hold it, the spring could pull the armature off the coil top.

    if you don't have the bakelite piece that broke off and you want the game to work per schem, pm me your mailing address and I'll scrounge the piece off a parts game next time I go to the pacific pinball museum. If you have the piece, google for a good bakelite glue. I've used epoxy in the past.

    #29 1 year ago

    I am working today but will have a little time tomorrow to look at it. I’m curious why the 4-5-6 seems to work with the broken piece. Also just the screw adjustment worked for several hits, scoring properly them started to glitch, does that mean the switches are ok and the other adjustments are needed. I am going to order the switch adjusting tools after work today. Also we do have the piece of Bakelite, it fell out while we were working on the spring. I will look up glueing it back on but I’m afraid I might lose 4-5-6 by putting it back on. Should I reinstall the old spring if the new one will cause to much tension? The bummer is the 1-2-3 cards were working perfect except the yellow line on 3, that was fixed with your yellow wire suggestion. That’s why I’m leary of doing too much, it was working other than the third card and the 4-5 of a kind on the 5 th. Thank you again for all of you time, and I’ll try again tomorrow. Any chance you will be in Pittsburgh any time soon.

    #30 1 year ago

    PM me if you need any parts. I have between 25 and 50 bingos that I consider parts machines (back glasses are shot). Also, I’m only about 14 miles from Pittsburgh.

    #31 1 year ago

    Thank you for the offer on the parts, that’s a lot of parts machines. Im hoping not to need parts but it’s good to know they are out there. We were so close to 100 percent on this machine, but we are backsliding a bit. Baldtwit from California has been so helpful but it’s my first machine and I’m not real good at the mechanical part of this. He has been really gracious with his time. We are located in Bethel Park, how far are you if I do end up needing a part?

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bingo412:

    I am working today but will have a little time tomorrow to look at it. I’m curious why the 4-5-6 seems to work with the broken piece.

    the A-C switch descriptions in post 28 are the same as the switches on the schem and on manual page 18. The reason it COULD work without the switches moving is:

    - the A switches on both your search index units look permanently adjusted open. For the game to reset correctly with the coin switch or red button, those switches need to be closed so they must be bypassed somehow. They are on the schem at H7.

    - the B switch on each search index unit stops the other search index coil from powering. The only reasons I can think of why they would care are a small extra current draw if both search index coils power and the probability that the "other" search index armature will be slamming up onto a ratchet tooth when the ratchet can't move because the wipers are locked. If the armature can't seat down onto the coil top, the thing would likely buzz - loudly. Besides that, the B switches being stuck closed wouldn't affect win detect or payout.

    - the C switches are the ones that normally close when the search index coil is powered. With the bakelite tab gone, the C switch may be stuck closed...depends whether the B switch is holding it open (i.e. you needed the tab to push the B switch away so the C switch could close). If you case, the side effect is that when the 1-2-3 search index coil powers, the 4-5-6 probably does also. However, that likely doesn't matter since the 4-5-6 wipers are locked and all the circuits thru the 4-5-6 search disc are disconnected at the locked position.

    the condition where the game pays 1 credit each time you do a search is pretty typical of a misadjusted search index unit. The game detects a win and releases the replay cams, but it hasn't locked the search wipers on the winning rivets. Sometimes a replay cams pulse gets thru and steps the replay register, sometimes not.

    adjusting the screw can effect if a ratchet tooth gets grabbed and which one. When the armature lip is down too far, the lip can hit the top of a tooth and skip onto the next one due to the extra time it takes for the armature lip to reach the teeth.

    I wouldn't worry about messing things up...if you do the adjusts in post 28 you'll be fine with two possible caveats:

    - you may need a better description of positioning the entire index unit on the back plate to get the wiper contacts on the rivets

    - assumption is you didn't move the coil mounting frame on the search index bracket. If you did, no problem. The adjust is to loosen the frame and while holding down the armature onto the coil top, you slide the frame up so the armature lip is seated nicely into a ratchet tooth notch (release the search wipers and spin to let them move as the lip goes in). You do that after or at the same time as positioning the search index unit on the back plate since that slightly effects the geometry.

    if the coil mounting frame is too high, the armature can't pull down onto the coil top and you get buzzing. If the frame is too low, the armature lip is only partway in a tooth notch and you increase the chances of the lip popping out or wearing down the top of the teeth.

    what I'd do is find out why the game works with the A switches open, fix that and adjust the A switch correctly. Then glue back on the bakelite tab and adjust the B/C switches and index unit positions. If the bakelite tab breaks off again, hit up 29REO for replacement.

    #33 1 year ago

    Baldtwit’s explanations are peerless. I am 16 miles from you. Let me know if you decide you need to replace the broken Bakelite piece. Also if you need backup at the game I’d be happy to help.

    #34 1 year ago

    I’m going to order the switch tools tomorrow morning, my son and I messed with it for quite awhile today with no luck. It seems the 1-2-3 relay never moves at all so the metal hook never moves to engage the teeth. So I didn’t try to move it. I’m sending a few photos of the switches and the relay. . The switches look closed closed open to me but there is the Bakelite and the round things attached to them and those are flimsy. It seems like the search disk quit talking to the relay, but I’m not sure. I tried to send two videos of the relays , one working on a 6th card hit and one of a second card hit not working. It’s showed the relay without Bakelite work and the other never moves the relay at all. But the videos wouldn’t send.

    8E7CE01E-18FE-456F-ABD7-6CE800EC0630 (resized).jpeg51FDE87C-88FF-4608-8196-1CFB8855CECD (resized).jpeg209CC879-5E2B-4C9A-A64A-E01A7B2C11C4 (resized).jpeg

    #35 1 year ago

    The A switch in the attached is the one that looks permanently open on both search index units.

    for the 1-2-3 search index to power, the B switch on the 4-5-6 search index unit needs to be closed. Maybe it is, probably it isn't...without the bakelite tab pushing the C switch up on the 4-5-6, the lifter cylinder piece and blade tension on the C switch may be holding the B switch open.

    all the blathering above about the position of the search index unit, the screw adjust, etc., is all about getting the armature to hold the search wipers on the winning rivets. If the search index coil is not powering at all, the issue is elsewhere.

    you'd got an oddball game compared to most. Hardly any games have switches between the search index coil and the "hot" wire 70. You've got the B switches in the circuit, so a switch problem on one search index unit can affect the other one.

    you've got 29REO willing to pop by and help ya out, so messing around in there is pretty risk-free. If you can't easily check/adjust the B switch on the 4-5-6 to make sure it's closed, I'd either jumper it closed or if you can figure out which of the two wires on the 1-2-3 search index coil is grey wire 90, then you can jumper that directly to wire 70 and see if your 1-2-3 payouts work again … or at least the 1-2-3 search index coil powers when a win exists.

    if you have a problem with the search index unit position or other adjusts, the symptom is the coil powers, the search wipers may or may not briefly hiccup, and then coil loses power and the wipers continue. You can see and hear the armature pull down and let go.

    search_index (resized).jpg

    1 week later
    #36 1 year ago

    I took your advice and reached out to 29REO. Talked to him last week, he said he will stop by when he can and help me get back on track. I will keep posting when we get working on it again. He seems confident he can fix it.

    #37 1 year ago

    Update on the Shoot-A-Line ... for thr first time it is scoring 100 percent! 29reo and his dad, who used to work for Balley, came over and changed a few parts and fixed everything that wasn’t working. What a fun experience to watch them for a few hours work together to bring it back. I can’t say thank you enough to the two of them. Also thank you so much to baldtwit for all his time in working with me on this project. And statictrance for helping in the beginning and moving us in the right direction. You are all awesome , and thanks again.

    4D192FC1-372A-4F16-8DE4-1652EC48395E (resized).jpeg81677E58-8C75-42A1-ABC7-8FF19BC6EB24 (resized).jpegA0E02982-3C1C-4E73-8E16-0F9964A4E515 (resized).jpegEFCFCF48-CC2D-4C22-9566-63E314178F8F (resized).jpeg
    #38 1 year ago

    Before ....

    3A6A0E8F-715C-4342-8C66-D3EC645114E6 (resized).png445BC258-245A-4066-A9DA-286415C0F601 (resized).jpeg
    #39 1 year ago

    AFTER ....

    5CC4541B-85D4-4213-A919-8627B6B77331 (resized).jpeg
    #40 1 year ago

    Your bingo looks beautiful
    Great job.
    Terry K

    #41 1 year ago


    #42 1 year ago

    nice! If you have details of what was fixed, that'd be interesting.

    also, do you have the coin divider stuff on your coin door? There game had the ability to shunt every Nth coin down a chute into the side coin door area. Usually the mechanism got yanked out by the operators and I can't find a picture of an entirely working setup.

    if you do have the stuff, please post a pic. It'll look similar to the one on Lido below, but the coil on the bottom of the door needs to have an armature piece that diverts the coin.

    Lido Coin Divider (resized).jpg
    #43 1 year ago

    They replaced the set of switches with the broken Bakelite with a set from another machine. Then adjusted both sets on the search disks. That made the first and second card work properly. Then they traced the third card problem to the yellow line relays, they adjusted a switch and that was fixed. The fifth card 4-5 in a line problem worked with a little pressure so he adjusted the fingers but no luck. He noticed a small pin hole in the copper right after a patch that was installed. They were going to come back and solder a piece on but adjusted it somehow and now it scores . Maybe 29 reo could explain better on that. It scores 2 extra credits now but I’m happy as can be with it because it’s consistent. This machine has the side door as you can see in the picture,I had to put tape in the machine to keep things from going in there. Also here is a picture of my coin mechanism.

    6C1B247C-C597-4DDB-8C04-1CB38F859636 (resized).jpegC71E871D-1980-438E-97FF-A531ADEC21CA (resized).jpeg
    #44 1 year ago

    great, thanks! An intact coin divider seems pretty rare. I think I've only seen one.

    #45 1 year ago

    Bingo412, that's a great summation of what we did; you were paying attention really well. For those following along, I had decided to replace the 4-5-6 Search Index assembly before I got there with one from a Lotta Fun because I figured that would be easier and I wanted to return the game to factory specs. The switches on the original one to the game were badly adjusted and it also had that broken part. So I cleaned and adjusted the replacement ahead of time and swapped them out. Baldtwit had commented in post #28 that switch A must have been jumpered around and this was indeed the case - about 1/2" back someone had twisted the wires together and soldered them there making separating the wires very short and tough to reattach. After reassembly, the 1-2-3 Search Index then would hiccup (As Baldtwit explained earlier -energize briefly and release) so I removed it and found that it had an aftermarket coil installed and a replacement spring with extreme tension. So I replaced the spring with the one from the broken assembly and also reset the air gap as the armature would not lay down flat on top of the coil pole. I adjusted the switches and reinstalled the unit. I adjusted both Search Wipers and the game immediately locked in on the appropriate winners and would score. The third card problem of not scoring was weak tension on switch C on the Yellow Line relay (See the diagram in post #26 at position 19 at exactly halfway up the page). The Fifth Card not scoring 4 & 5 in-a-line winners turned out to be a hole burned into the copper at the beginning point of 4-in-a-line scoring about the size of a pencil point. This is due to poor tension on the wiper blade causing a spark between the blade tip and the copper traces. I therefore increased the tension on the wiper fingers. To correctly fix the biscuit it would need a copper patch sweated over the hole, which I wasn't equipped to do that night so we elected to "cock" the bakelite biscuit to prevent the wiper from landing in the hole. The biscuit is now radially out of adjustment but will function. This is likely why an extra 2 credits are awarded and if this is the case at least it will work for now and will at least be consistent. I want to thank Bingo412 for the opportunity to help out. My dad always talked fondly about the Shoot-A-Line and although I remember them I've only ever seen a few and I think I may even have worked on one once but that was 40 years ago. We enjoyed working on this one together, that's not something we often get to do and it was a pleasure.

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