(Topic ID: 330381)

Sing Along issues - what's normal?

By Ollulanus

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 8 months ago by zebpin61
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    Sing Along hole lights (resized).jpg
    Sing Along pop bumpers (resized).jpg
    #1 1 year ago

    Working on a sing along that plays, but has several issues that I need to sort. First thing is figuring out what everything is actually supposed to do :p

    1. Are the yellow and red pops supposed to activate as pairs? Currently triggering a red or yellow also fires its mate. Guessing that's normal, but I don't recall seeing this on other EMs and the schematic I could read either way

    2. Hitting each playfield switch should unlight that insert and light the corresponding one on the hole layout, right? Have a few that aren't lighting/unlighting, probably just a relay that needs cleaned and adjusted, but making sure it's always supposed to work that way.

    3. Can someone explain the scoring logic on the holes, and when the actual hole lights should turn on? Most of the insert lights are behaving properly, but the hole lights themselves are clearly wonky, and I just need to know when they should trigger before digging in too much. Likewise, understanding the scoring would help me track things down.

    Thanks for any input!

    #2 1 year ago

    Good questions. It looks like a fun game, but I’ve never played one myself.

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    Working on a sing along that plays, but has several issues that I need to sort. First thing is figuring out what everything is actually supposed to do :p
    1. Are the yellow and red pops supposed to activate as pairs? Currently triggering a red or yellow also fires its mate. Guessing that's normal, but I don't recall seeing this on other EMs and the schematic I could read either way
    2. Hitting each playfield switch should unlight that insert and light the corresponding one on the hole layout, right? Have a few that aren't lighting/unlighting, probably just a relay that needs cleaned and adjusted, but making sure it's always supposed to work that way.
    3. Can someone explain the scoring logic on the holes, and when the actual hole lights should turn on? Most of the insert lights are behaving properly, but the hole lights themselves are clearly wonky, and I just need to know when they should trigger before digging in too much. Likewise, understanding the scoring would help me track things down.
    Thanks for any input!

    1. Maybe a 3-5 ball feature diff, diagram? (As I recall they do light in pairs)

    2. Yes, on the underside of the pf there is a large bank, should be a relay per rollover. a make break switch on each relay will move the lit lamp. lift your pf, check the label on the bank, if label is missing manually actuate each over and watch the bank and make each relay with a sharpie. bank swings open to allow easier access to the contacts. You will need to put the pf upright leaning against the head to allow you to open bank..

    https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2160&picno=41807

    3. On my Ks&Qs the hole lighting for special is controlled by the 0-9s unit in the head. Im sure SA is the same

    https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2160&picno=41809

    #4 1 year ago

    On my machine, once you roll over a colored number, that same number on the vertical column lights up. I don't know/remember the scoring for the holes, but I know it increases with the number of lit numbers in the vertical column.

    The lights in the holes illuminate when all four numbers for that column are lit. It rotates from hole to hole with the 0 to 9 unit (As mentioned above).

    Most likely, you have dirty/bad contacts on the relay bank that are causing issues. One word of caution - when putting the bank back in, make sure there is no twisting of the assembly. I've had issues that suddenly cleared up on Gottlieb machines when I reseated the relay bank.

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    1. Are the yellow and red pops supposed to activate as pairs? Currently triggering a red or yellow also fires its mate. Guessing that's normal, but I don't recall seeing this on other EMs and the schematic I could read either way

    Pop bumpers often share a relay, probably as a cost savings measure. On Sing Along the red bumpers share the E relay and the yellow bumpers share the D delay.
    Sing Along pop bumpers (resized).jpgSing Along pop bumpers (resized).jpg
    Typically the pop bumpers that share a relay are far enough apart so that they have time to recover to kick a ball that travels between them. If they're too close together the 2nd bumper might not recover fast enough to kick the ball after the 1st bumper fires.

    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    2. Hitting each playfield switch should unlight that insert and light the corresponding one on the hole layout, right? Have a few that aren't lighting/unlighting, probably just a relay that needs cleaned and adjusted, but making sure it's always supposed to work that way.

    Make/break switches on the trip relays like these control whether the target or hole lights are on:
    Sing Along hole lights (resized).jpgSing Along hole lights (resized).jpg
    If the target light goes out you know the relay tripped. If the hole light doesn't come on the issue is likely with the normally open half of the make/break switch.

    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    3. Can someone explain the scoring logic on the holes, and when the actual hole lights should turn on?

    I think the holes score 10 plus 10 for each light that's on (assuming your lights are working properly).

    #6 1 year ago

    The holes light when you get all the numbers of that color. They cycle on and off as 1 point or 10 points are scored. They are also “weighted” from left to right. The left holes are lit more frequently than the right side - I guess assuming that the kickers are going to allow you to hit the right holes more frequently. I can pull out the schematic if you need more specifics

    Dave

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    More
    Pop bumpers often share a relay, probably as a cost savings measure. On Sing Along the red bumpers share the E relay and the yellow bumpers share the D delay.

    Thanks - I thought that made sense from the schematic, but I would have sworn they weren't firing together before I rebuilt the flippers. Must have just not noticed. Ironically, I bought one of the new stern bonds where everyone is complaining about the two pops firing in tandem. Original bond here, lol.

    Thanks for all the info from everyone. Should keep me busy for a minute. New to EMs, and it all makes sense but SO MANY SWITCHES is kind of intimidating when you're used to solid state stuff

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

    The holes light when you get all the numbers of that color. They cycle on and off as 1 point or 10 points are scored. They are also “weighted” from left to right. The left holes are lit more frequently than the right side - I guess assuming that the kickers are going to allow you to hit the right holes more frequently. I can pull out the schematic if you need more specifics
    Dave

    Thanks, I have the schematic just making sure I know what it's supposed to do and don't turn myself around thinking through the relays. Helps to know what the goal of the wiring is to understand the wiring, kinda like doing the mazes in reverse is easier, lol

    #9 1 year ago

    Got the lights working properly; just contacts that needed cleaned for the most part, couple adjustments. Score motor was running forever unless you manually reset, took me forever to track down the switch on the score motor that needed adjusted to trigger the reset bank, but now I've got a clearer idea of how this schematic works at least. Score motor and relays are new to me - fun stuff.

    Couple follow ups:
    1) Only supposed to have ONE hole lit at a time, regardless of how many 1-4 rows you've lit, right?

    2) Can someone with the game in good working order tell me if when you start a game/trigger the resets the hole kickout armature fires too? Asking because it's kicking out randomly with other gameplay, guessing I've got a short somewhere but haven't eyeballed it, so gathering info to narrow down where to start looking hard.

    3) Anyone have a source for part numbers for this era of gottlieb they can point me towards? I have the schematic, but need to rebuild some of the pops and a few other things...can measure the sleeves, but not sure about the yokes and such

    #10 1 year ago

    Only one hole at a time can be illuminated.

    I never noticed my machine activate the hole kickout on startup. The machine may not be seeing the ball in the launch area.

    Pinball Resource is the place for Gottlieb parts. He is old school and direct - be prepared. By old school, I mean he only accepts checks, and the invoice comes with the parts. In other words, he sends you the parts, you send him a check. First order I think is limited to about $100, and if you pay promptly, then there's no ceiling on reasonable orders. Tell him what machine you have, and if you have part numbers, that's better yet.

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    3) Anyone have a source for part numbers for this era of gottlieb they can point me towards? I have the schematic, but need to rebuild some of the pops and a few other things...can measure the sleeves, but not sure about the yokes and such

    Part numbers are in the Gottlieb parts catalogs which aren't available online.
    PBR has rebuild kits for pop bumpers at:
    http://www.pbresource.com/pfbumpb.htm#rebuild
    and flipper rebuild kits at:
    http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-GFLIP01

    #12 1 year ago

    Thanks, couldn't find the stuff clearly on Marco or PBL, always forget about PBR.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    Thanks, couldn't find the stuff clearly on Marco or PBL, always forget about PBR.

    Why? They should be your primary resource! Pun intended.

    #14 1 year ago

    As a final note: my sing along does not fire the hole kicker upon startup. The red pops activate together, as do the yellow.

    Hole scoring starts at 10 points, and increases an additional 10 points for each number in that column lit, so if you have two numbers in the column, you get thirty points.

    Only one hole at a time can(should) be illuminated for a special. It will only illuminate when all four numbers in the column have been achieved.

    Hope that answers all your questions. This is a grail pin for me, it’s the first one I remember playing, and the first machine to suck my pockets dry.

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from Billc479:

    As a final note: my sing along does not fire the hole kicker upon startup. The red pops activate together, as do the yellow.
    Hole scoring starts at 10 points, and increases an additional 10 points for each number in that column lit, so if you have two numbers in the column, you get thirty points.
    Only one hole at a time can(should) be illuminated for a special. It will only illuminate when all four numbers in the column have been achieved.
    Hope that answers all your questions. This is a grail pin for me, it’s the first one I remember playing, and the first machine to suck my pockets dry.

    Thanks, that's very helpful. I was guessing the holes kicking on reset was a glitch, that should help me track down the short. I've got all the lights working as intended, now I've just got to make sure everything's scoring correctly (it's really, really not ATM, lol). Considering the amount of switch cleaning I had to do to get the lights working right, I probably should just take a file to every contact in the game before screwing around too much more. Playing fine other than scoring and a pop bumper that needs some work now though.

    5 months later
    #16 8 months ago

    Just picked up a much forgotten Sing Along, doing a stripped down pf cleaning above and below. Noticed an inordinate amount of chalking/oxidation on all the bayonet sockets. Can anyone tell me what causes that?

    Also, this is the 1st game I remember that doesn't have a on/off switch, either under cabinet or side of head. No sign of one removed. How have other owners decided to manage this?

    I love bringing a game back from near death. It's nice to bring Gottlieb back into my collection. Appreciate anyone's input in advance.

    #17 8 months ago

    The bulb sockets can be cleaned with CLR, as long as the inside is clean, the sockets will work regardless. Lots of work to “fix” something most folks won’t see.

    There is no on/off switch - you kick underneath and the kick switch turns off the machine - kick it toward the center of the playfield around the yellow and green 2s. To start the machine, hit the credit button or coin it up.

    #18 8 months ago
    Quoted from Billc479:

    The bulb sockets can be cleaned with CLR, as long as the inside is clean, the sockets will work regardless. Lots of work to “fix” something most folks won’t see.
    There is no on/off switch - you kick underneath and the kick switch turns off the machine - kick it toward the center of the playfield around the yellow and green 2s. To start the machine, hit the credit button or coin it up.

    Thanks @billc479, shutting the game off by hitting the underside is vaguely familiar from when I had games of this era in the 1970s. Been so long I just forgot.

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