(Topic ID: 190585)

Sinbad Playfield Restoration (Fail and Recovery!)

By quinntopia

3 years ago

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  • 198 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by quinntopia
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#51 3 years ago

EDITED: Note that my original plan to use Spaymax 1k does not work as planned with Createx paints (you'll see why if you keep reading this thread!) so please DO NOT use SprayMax 1k if you plan to do touch ups like am. Thanks!

Okay, I was up waaaayyy too early this morning and I thought I would take a stab at translating my notes that I've been creating to help me through this process. While this is mostly based off Vid's excellent post, it is not a subsitute. I have many of those posts (as well as other websites such as Pinrepair for other parts of the resto) bookmarket to go back to and refer to. This attempt at a flow chart is really to help me see where each step is, what supplies or equipment I need to have available for the next step, and other notes to myself.

If this is useful great! If you have some ideas on things I should change or add, let me know! This is my first time so I'm probably missing several important things (I plan to update this if possible as I learn more).

Sinbad Project Plan.pdf

#52 3 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Question for you...you've got some cool pins, what is it about Sinbad? I haven't been doing this long but seems like most people who have modern games don't care too much for older pins?

What's NOT to love about Sinbah?
4 linear flippers that present all kinds of crazy ball movement. Almost a whole different skill set playin with 4. The rules are somewhat easy (always a huge plus for me!). The spinner is right in the middle to rip on, and it's kinda the best of both worlds being a SS yet retaining the wonderful EM bells and chimes (ok so they're not authentic, but real enough for me.) Plus it was a pretty awesome movie; I remember watching it with my Dad. People can say whatever they want, but I believe most all of us are suckers for nostalgia. I am.
Keep up the great work Q! Can't wait to finally get my machine on Fri!

#53 3 years ago

Oh and thanks for posting that flowchart! That info will come in handy for a quick reference. Sinbad restorers unite!

#54 3 years ago

Man, orange is a nightmare. It also made my next move very cautions. But its done.

I attempted to be very methodical about matching the orange. I primarily used Wicked Orange as my base as this seems to most closely match the orange on the playfield, although it is a lot 'brighter' and deeper than the playfield orange.

As you might have seen above, I made several combinations of colors, Createx Orange, Wicked Orange, Createx Yellow, Wicked Yellow, Red, White, etc.... I did these little test on small sheets of clear mylar. This is how I arrived at Wicked Orange as my base.

Knowing that Wicked Orange was my base, and that Createx Yellow seems to get it close to the playfield orange, I filled a small jar halfway with Wicked Orange, and then slowly started adding drops of Createx Yellow.

What is really challenging is that the colors dry a lot darker. So every time I get close, after a minute under the heat gun, I still had far to go.

I ended up getting to 40 drops of Createx where I felt the color was a good match.

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#55 3 years ago

I'll repeat something I said earlier....since I wasn't entirely sure that i would ever get a 'perfect' match, I had two plans: Just spray paint the areas that needed it (mostly the long 'flame line' on the left side of the playfield, and the large 'center flame' and the two pop bumpers) but if the orange match wasn't close enough, go ahead and paint all the orange areas.

After my first coat or two of the color that I think matched, I will pull back some temporary coverings over the other orange areas and see if they were close enough.

#56 3 years ago

After my first two coats (very light) I could see that I was likely going to have a REALLY heavy coat of orange to ensure I could cover up the black lettering and the bondo patch. This seems to confirm what everyone probably knows that Wicked paints are more translucent than Createx.

I decided to basically add a primer coat using some Createx Red, Yellow and White. I wasn't trying to recreate the Orange, but was trying to get a very opaque base down to act as a sort of a primer. So in the below photo you see a very incorrect peach color instead of orange!

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#57 3 years ago

Of course, I had to face the reality that my orange was just not close enough to the existing orange on the playfield. So the 'temporary' protection for the good orange areas was removed and the majority of all orange areas were repainted in this slight darker orange color.

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#58 3 years ago

The good news is that it's close enough. It looks redder in the photos than it does in real life. I might even assume that this is the orange that was originally on the playfield before 40 years of UV light and fading took its toll! I'm generally pleased with how it turned out, but there are some things that bother me a bit which I'll comment on below.

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#59 3 years ago

The finished orange coat. Again, it looks more red in these photos than it does in person. I am really happy with how this covered up the scars, nicks, and general damage. Finally the playfield is starting to look like it should!

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#60 3 years ago

Great work, however I had to catch this Freudian slip... "precauctions" ... in your flow chart of to do steps. Good luck with this restoration, many will watch and wonder.

#61 3 years ago

So, a couple of comments on air-brushing Createx paint and frisket. Some of this is a repeat of what Vid and others have stated, but some of this I don't know or remember if I've read. In any case, these are some things that I need to keep in mind as they are pretty critical for my experience so far!

1. Make sure you have a coat of clear on the playfield before cutting any frisket (this is what Vid advises so do it!). Make absolutely sure you sand it before add frisket. The Createx acrylics absolutely need good 'tooth' (as Vid would say) to grab onto the playfield. If not, your carefully airbrushed coat may pull up WITH the frisket later!
2. Cutting frisket is delicate work, but its not as hard as you might think. If you have sharp exacto blades the wight of the knife is almost enough add your cut lines.
3. Carefully check that you have cut out all the areas where you want paint to go - and make sure areas you don't want paint are covered. Try to look at the playfield with a light reflection on it so you can see the different reflectivity of areas where the frisket is applied versus where you've removed it.
4. Keep your black lines! Make sure you cut the outside of any black outlines!
5. Make extra sure that the frisket is cut cleanly at all 'angled' areas (e.g. tips of arrows)
6. Using naptha after you've added your frisket (prior to paint) is fine. No problems. Just be careful and use it with caution.
7. Make sure you gently press the frisket edges to ensure it has a good seal.
8. Although I've done airbrushing before, Createx does need high pressure compared to other paints. I had my compressor set to 60 psi (I think I got that from Vid)
9. Start with thin coats, hit with a heat gun to set it, hit again. If using Wicked and not Createx, you might want to put down a 'primer coat' of the more opaque Createx.
10. Once its all done and your ready to remove frisket, don't rush this part! The paint is very 'rubbery' and if you don't carefully remove the frisket you may pull up some paint! What I've found works best is to pull frisket in the opposite direction of the edge you are pulling against. Also keep the angle you are pulling the frisket as low to the playfield as possible. If you are holding the frisket at a 90 degree angle to the playfield when removing, that could pull the paint up. Where you have little circular shapes, or narrow triangular shares (the insides of arrow points) you want to be very careful. I found that going to the tiniest tip of arrow or edge and with a pair of tweezers pull the frisket up from this narrow end I get better, cleaner pulls and didn't have any issues of paint getting pulled from the playfield.

#62 3 years ago

Okay, did some minor black keyline touchups today, but the main project was to fill/level the cupped inserts.

I originally hoped that my cupped inserts were good enough that I could avoid the drip method of filling in the insert and then sanding it down to level.

However, as I'll be putting laser, water-slide decals over the black insert circles, I know they need to be level and flush. So before any more painting or clear coating, time to deal with the inserts...

#63 3 years ago

The process didn't go too badly. I am using the SprayMax 1k for this. It is less toxic than 2k (although not as durable or strong) so i sprayed into a paper bowl, used an eyedropper and dripped in the inserts.

This is a practice that Vid and others discuss. Ensuring the playfield was absoutely level I filled the inserts so that the clear liquid would touch/kiss the the paint and area surrounding the insert ring.

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#64 3 years ago

And....I may have a major problem. As I was doing I was mentally trying to remember all the tips and cautions that Vid and others have provided on this. I don't know if it was explicit, but its probably a good idea to do this step FIRST - not AFTER applying spray paint!

So...here's what is going on. I'm waiting for the Spraymax 1k to dry, and I started to notice that the 1k liquid is having a fairly violent reaction to the yellow paint. Notice in the photos how its wrinkling? Yikes! What have I done!?

So...this may mean another coat of yellow after a lot of sanding. If that's the worst of it, that's okay. Darn!

I'll be gone most of this week for work, so I'll come back later this week after this 1k has completely cured and see what sort of disaster is in store for me....

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#65 3 years ago

I heart this thread. Great job Q.

#66 3 years ago

Heh. Well, I think this resto got a bit more interesting. But it would be boring without some drama!

#67 3 years ago

When I posted that last night I just saw there had been 11 new posts....so I didn't see the insert pics. Wow. Everything was going so good! Wasn't being sarcastic or a dick...I just didn't see yer last post. Hope you figure that out man!

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

When I posted that last night I just saw there had been 11 new posts....so I didn't see the insert pics. Wow. Everything was going so good! Wasn't being sarcastic or a dick...I just didn't see yer last post. Hope you figure that out man!

Hah! No worries! I didn't take it that way at all!!! Heck, I've been waiting for something to go wrong! I mean don't you think that this whole restoration process is really just "pushing your luck!"? With the exception of Vid, it seems EVERYONE runs into some unexpected issue or something!

#69 3 years ago

Okay, it's been a few days...and I had to leave town right after noticing the "bubbling" under of the Createx in contact with the 1k, so I spent a few days just wondering what tragedy would I find when I got back home?

Well, it's not as bad as I thought it might be, but not great. I'll still have repaint some of the yellow and some orange.

Now I wish I had mixed EXTRA so I don't have to go through mixing a new batch!

So two things might have happened: I think I missed a "rule" about applying the clear coat BEFORE applying any acrylic paints (I.e. Createx). I think the large volume in contact with the acrylic paint (even though it was cured) in the cupped inserts over a longer period of curing time (compared to a much faster cure of thin coats that are sprayed on) allowed for enough time for a reaction to take place.

The other option is that Spraymax 1k has some real issues with acrylic/Createx paints.

What makes me wonder about the 1k is that even some areas that should not have reacted (the inner orange arrows) at all because it was a thin coat, still resulted in a sort of "spider-web" sort of reaction. This did not happen with the yellow coat I might add. The good news about the orange arrows is that after I sanded them they look okay.

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#70 3 years ago

So sandpaper to the rescue! Not quite, but at least it gets me to the point to see what I need to do next.

Here's some close up photos. These were taken after being sanded, so you can kind of see little "bleeds" where the yellow paint reacted to the 1k that was filled into the inserts.

The areas requiring touch ups are about half the insert area on the yellow, and a few random areas in the orange. The worst is the yellow insert near the yellow flame.

But I noticed that I have a couple of inserts that I didn't quite fill, so I may have to take care of that before doing any touch ups.

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1 week later
#71 3 years ago

Wow. I think I'm almost done masking the blue/turquoise areas for air-brushing. I think I have almost 5 hours of frisket cutting! I started last weekend and finished today.

The reason it took so long was attempting to mask as much of the fine black lines and black circles on the blue areas to minimize either decals or hand touch ups, but I suspect it will be wasted effort. Ahhh, this is fun! ?

Going to spray the blue now. With a four day weekend and no work travel planned for maybe two weeks I'm hoping to make some serious progress.

Of course, I sort of expect "progress" as it relates to a playfield Restoration to be two steps forward on step backwards as my reading has informed me and my own experience has validated!

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#72 3 years ago

Blue is down! And I have to say, the color match was pretty perfect. Easiest color so far. And the coverage of the Createx was really good. Whereas with the yellow and orange several coats were needed to cover the lettering or the bondo fill, the blue covered it nicely. I think this might have to do with the fact that I had to use the somewhat more transparent "Wicked Colors" for orange and yellow - which I didn't have to use for the blue/turquoise.

Here's the first pass....

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#73 3 years ago

Second pass (both were light layers)

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#74 3 years ago

In this photo, down at the lower left corner, you can see the area that had the worst damage and the bondo fill. The colors don't look as identical in the photo, but to the naken eye, you can hardly tell the difference.

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#75 3 years ago

This photo is actually a combination of areas that were painted and others that were left original. I'm happy with how this turned out. I'm going to let it set for a bit longer, then go in and clean it up more aggressively and then possible spray the white and do the magenta touch-ups (by hand? They are pretty minor, so I don't know if I need full on airbrush, but it might be good anyway).

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#76 3 years ago

A little off topic..although I have a decent laser printer, there are some decals I need that have white lettering. I found a company on the web called Bedlam Creations that can make custom decals (with white, gold, silver, etc..).

Here's the 'proof' for the upcoming decal (still in the process of being created). This is at actual size, so if you need the white letters for these two areas, feel free to try using this to make decals! (the 'blue area' will be transparent).

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#77 3 years ago

Two steps forward; 5 steps back. Hey! This looks like where I started!!

So my plans to make all sorts of progress this weekend were destroyed. I was able to do some decent brush based touch ups to the yellow, orange, blue and even took care of the magenta. In a perfect world that would mean a shot of the Spraymax 1k, spray the white then the final Spraymax 2k clear coat. Yay!

But this is playfield Restoration and I'm an idiot so the above did not happen.

Instead, the Spraymax once again wrinkled some paint. Last time it was just a small strip of orange high up the playfield and it sanded out okay. This time it was the blue and it was in a very noticeable spot on the playfield, so this needed to be fixed.

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#78 3 years ago

As you can tell from the above photo, that had to be fixed. It's also right next to the orange flames. So with some sanding and a bit of Naptha I started taking off the blue. However, some of the orange started to come off! This was a bit surprising as I tried to be careful and the orange was under a thic coat of clear.

Guess it was too thin.

So.... the big orange flame AND the blue will need to be repainted.

As I was cleaning off as much of the orange paint as made sense, i was wondering what happened to my paint in the first place tha caused it to wrinkle? And why was my orange, frankly, not really that well adhered to the playfield anyway?

My theory is that the areas of Createx that are wrinkling when sprayed were sprayed too think and/or were not properly heat set.

I thought heat setting would be straight forward, but as I told you above, I'm an idiot.

I may have been too concerned with over-heating the Createx or the frisket so I was probably not getting it set. And if it's too thick, that's just even more of a problem.

Anyway, I don't really want to paint anymore until I figure out what's up with my airbrushing and the Spraymax.

So I decided I might as well fix the inserts on the yellow scimitar correctly so sanded most of the yellow back. Most of the inserts turned out okay, but a couple still had some cupping and one must have had a bubble or something as it did not look good.

So... like I said...I'm kind of back where I started! At least the top portion of the playfield is okay and I have a better idea of what to color match correctly.

Wow, these restorations are a pain in the butt!

#79 3 years ago

"Why do we fall down Bruce? To learn how to get back up."

I think this Restoration is teaching me resilience and tenacity. I will not give up. It will be awesome.

I will sand down and re clean these inserts until they are bubble free and amazing.

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#80 3 years ago

Inserts sanded down flat with all gaps sealed. Finally. It actually required three different stages of filling inserts with the 1k with an eye-dropper, letting it cure, sanding, sanding, sanding, more filling, etc... The bubble seen above eventually came out (except for a couple of microsropic ones, which I am frankly going to ignore at this point).

More updates to follow....

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#81 3 years ago

My decals form Bedlam creations arrived! They look good! Somewhat painfully, the step when I can apply them seems to be getting further away! I think I paid about $40 for a 9x12 decal sheet. Pretty much the only option when you need white letters. I went with a larger sheet to have multiple versions of the decals I need in anticipation of errors!

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#82 3 years ago

I tried some tests of various Createx/Wicked paints with the Spraymax 1k. The results are inconclusive. The below images are the before and after of various splotches of Createx and Wicked paints both heat set and not heat set. To attempt to get dramatic results, I actually sprayed the Spraymax 1k on while much of the non-heat set paints were still wet/un-cured. The goal of this was to try and determine whether or not thickness/heat-setting and spraymax have negative interactions.

The comparison of the below 'before' and 'afters' are not very conclusive. There is some 'wrinkling' and minor reactions on the very thick splotches, but I did not see wrinkling on the thinner layers like I expected. These thicker areas are basically just drops of paint, while the others are paints smeared at various thicknesses.

Here's "before":

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#83 3 years ago

Here's "After":
Please note this is not scientific. Clearly. Yes, some of the tests showed reactions, but they were actually fairly minor given the thickness. What I think this tells me is that Spraymax 1k SHOULD be fine when coated on top of Createx stuff. And yet, I'm still having some issues with my Createx on the playfield wrinkling in reaction (especially with my latest coats, not my first coats).

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#84 3 years ago

My current theory:

What I think makes the most sense isn't the Spraymax on TOP of the Createx. This seems to be fine. The above test really did not indicate anything really problematic between the two.

However, I am still having wrinking....mainly on my latest coats.

And I think that's the key.

Because I've been sealing each airbrush coat with Spraymax 1k, the layer or thickness of the Spraymax clear UNDERNEATH each progressive layer of sprayed Createx is getting slightly thicker.

What I think is happening is the 'sandwiched' Createx paints is caught between the bottom layer of Spraymax 1k and the top - as the top layer begins to interact with the bottom layer, the bottom layer expands with the 'heat' creating wrinkles. This is why I did not see it on my first few coats and now seems common as thicker layers of clear are underneath the Createx.

Here's my results (keep in mind that the standard process of sanding with 400 and wiping with naptha occurs between each of the below, but some of my attempts at heat-setting may have been too little):

1. CLEAR: Playfield lightly cleared with Spraymax 1k
2. YELLOW Createx/Wicked color-matched mix airbrushed. Multiple coats applied to cover black letters (yellow over black is a PAIN)
3. CLEAR: Light sealing coat of Spraymax 1k applied.
4, NO REACTIONS on Yellow. No wrinkles, lifting, etc... Perfect.
5. ORANGE Createx/Wicked color-matched mix airbrushed. Perhaps three thin coats to establish coverage.
6. CLEAR: Sealing coat of Spraymax 1k applied. I may have put it on a bit more heavier in some spots.
7. MINOR REACTION: First tiny wrinkles noticed in one of the thin orange arrows in upper playfield. Otherwise, everything is good. I proceed thinking this was due to too much clear.
8. INSERT FILLING: This should have been done in step 2, but I thought I could avoid it, and do it now. The dripped Spraymax 1k pulls up the yellow paint around two of the 10 inserts. Not great. Will need to fix. What happened?
9. BLUE: Createx-only color-matched paint air-brushed. Once dry, sanding and naptha wipe. Strangely...notice that naptha is actually pulling some of the blue paint off playfield! Huh? Poor adhesion for some reason. This is where my limited heat set time might have been an issue.
10. CLEAR: A coat of clear will lock it down and all will be okay.
11. REACTION: Significant wrinkling! Particularly in the blue areas on lower playfield (not so much at top). I spray from top to bottom (lengthwise) so the application amounts should be pretty close, but I may have given the lower playfield area with the worst adhesion some extra clear to 'lock it in'.
12. Starting over...blue mostly removed, yellow removed, and most orange on lower playfield removed (fixed cupped inserts, etc....)
13. WHITE: While I'm also taking this opportunity to properly fix the inserts (since reactions damage to the yellow are now irrelevant as I need to respray) I decide to shoot the white areas since I have little to loose and I want to test a disciplined application of thin coats, then heat set, then thin coat, then heat set. The white seems to go on nicely and adheres to the playfield well (Perhaps addressing my issue with the Blue in step 9?)
14. CLEAR: After 4 days (plenty of time to cure) and having gotten my inserts nice and flat, time for a coat of clear to seal some of the now exposed bare wood near the inserts and the white paint.
15. REACTION: The white wrinkles after just a few seconds of application. Once cured, the wrinkles do subside a bit, but are still somewhat noticeable.

The most logical answer for the wrinkling seems to me to be related to the increasingly thick layers of the bottom layers of clear reacting to the new top clear, causing the new Createx layer to wrinkle. I may try and test this out (do a better job than above)!

#85 3 years ago

So...is my theory about thicker 'under' layers of Spraymax 1k reacting with a new topcoat and 'sandwiching' of the Creatext the problem? Any theories?

Because if this is the case and is what is happening, I have a lot more work and some choices to make:

- Take off most or all of the paint/Spraymax 1k clear coats and start fresh. Abandon SprayMax 1k technique for touch up sequence.
- Stop applying clear coats after spraying Createx to 'lock in' colors. Instead, get a good layer of Createx to apply itself (thin coats and absolutely ensure it is heat set). Then (carefully!) apply new frisket for next color without clear. Ugh. This scares me.

The big question looking in my mind is how how of the SprayMax 1k should I remove? How much CAN I remove? Heck, I just filled/flatted those damn inserts with SprayMax 1k (ah ha! I don't have to put any createx on them however!).

Although I read in one post that putting SprayMax 2k on top of SprayMax 1k is perfectly fine, I recently read a comment from another pinner that this resulted in a disaster!

OMG..what am I into!!!!???

#86 3 years ago

One more idea. This restoration did not go bad until I started posting! LOL. Maybe posting a restoration in progress angers the pinball gods and they cause the pain and misfortune.

Ok. I need a drink.

#87 3 years ago

Oh, and here's the 'white' wrinkles I referred to above....

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#88 3 years ago

I might gently suggest you switch from Spraymax to just regular 2PAC.

It's WAY cheaper, and it cures faster (before it can wrinkle the paint), and you only mix up what you need without the worry of the the rest of the can going bad.

#89 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I might gently suggest you switch from Spraymax to just regular 2PAC.
It's WAY cheaper, and it cures faster (before it can wrinkle the paint), and you only mix up what you need without the worry of the the rest of the can going bad.

Thanks Vid! I appreciate your time to look at my thread. I thought there might be an easy way around this, but I really don't want to repeat airbrushing and have to remove it once again. I am considering taking it to a local shop and having them do the 2PAC. Although it will cost more in the short term, in the long run I expect I will save a lot more time and frustration!

#90 3 years ago

I'm changing my profile pic. Sinbad started off full of courage and optimism. This better reflects how he feels now.

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#91 3 years ago

When Vid (the Obi-Wan or Yoda of playfield restorations) tells you to do something, it's probably wise to listen.

However, my little list of theories of what has been happening has made me curious. There are others who have had some similar issues, but I've yet to find anyone (meaning: read a port or resto) who is using Spraymax 1k and Createx in the manner that I am.

So while I am at the point where spending money on a pro 2Pac job makes more sense than continuing with the madness that I am in. I am curious. I've stopped working on the playfield until I know whether I need to strip it down, leave it as is and touch up, or....I don't know.

So I'm going to do a test. I will be testing Createx airbrushed on various thicknesses of Spraymax 1k, and with both thick and light top coats. I cut about 10 sections of 1/4" plywood, primed them with some exterior white paint (enamel) and will give each of them various coatings of Spraymax 1k (light, medium and heavy base coats, both heat set and non-heat set). I hope to replicate the wrinkling issue and discover what's going on so that others can see that this solution (my approach) does not work this way and don't also repeat my mistakes/impractical choice.

The other reason for this - when I'm all done - is to overcoat all of these test pieces with the Spraymax 2k I already have and see what reactions a 2k on 1k will have.

Here's my 'test pieces'...stay tuned for the future coatings on these...

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#92 3 years ago

So the test has been under-way. Results may be interesting, or mundane. I'm not completely sure.

Anyway, I decided to also test the strength of Createx when cutting frisket on it (without a protective clear). Remember, one of the issues I think I am having is that putting even light coats on after the yellow, then the orange, and then the blue is creating a thicker base coat. I am clearing between each air-brush color because of a fear that frisket will pull up un-cleared Createx on the playfield.

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#93 3 years ago

Spraying...yellow letters

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#94 3 years ago

The test sections after createx/clear. Can't tell if there's been any reaction from this distance....

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#95 3 years ago

And...bingo. on the heavy base coat sections I noticed a very obvious wrinkling while the Spraymax 1k was wet. It subsided as the paint cured. You can see the 'wrinkling' pattern below forming.

So, does this confirm my suspicion that sandwiching createx between layers of SprayMax 1k will cause the Createx to wrinkle? I think it does. The results are conclusive, so I'm ordering another can of SprayMax 1k (Just to test - I'm hard headed) and will apply another layer of Createx on top of this one.

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#96 3 years ago

Something I noticed while I was spraying the Creatext this time. I have two bottles of Createx yellow. I don't know which one is the more contemporary version or not. However something jumped out at me:

"For use on hard surfaces, plastic, and vinyl, mix with 4030 Mix Additive 10-30% per vol."

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#97 3 years ago

While the testing of my wrinkling problem is all fine and good, it still did not answer my question about WHY my experience with Createx was not great. The paint seemed 'rubbery' when dry and would peel off in places. I assumed this was due to improper heat-setting.

The image above shows the same information, but the bottle designs are different (notice that I've used up most of the one on the left).

The bottle with the 4030 advice for hard surfaces (on the left) has a logo that is horizontal, the other one (no mention of 4030) has an angled logo. Looking at the Createx website, the products they show have the label shown on the left - with the 4030 guidance.

Did they change? Just an update? Why would the new labels have the 4030 notification, and old ones don't? Is it possible that newer Createx paints have a different formula and need the 4030?

I have no idea.

But I will next be spraying with some of that 4030 added to see if that gets me a good, hard adhesion from Createx rather than the rubbery acrylic that I've gotten so far.

IMG_5537 (resized).jpg

#98 3 years ago

Wow. After another coat of SprayMax 1k (this time a very good 'medium' coat) which is already on top of several layers of various thicknesses, this air-brushed combination of Createx White, Red and Wicked Aquamarine wrinkled LIKE MAD! With the previous green coat, wrinking was pretty minor, this time? Nope, not minor at all.

Heat set/Not heat set...it made NO difference. Now unless something was BAD with the pink paint, this is bad sign (but a good sign as it may confirm my theory).

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IMG_5541 (resized).JPG

#99 3 years ago

I am almost certain that what you are seeing is the top coat of clear reactivating the bottom coat and the paint in between getting munged up and wrinkled as that occurs because it does not activate with the clear and is effectively a brittle layer that heaves with the bottom coat expanding and contracting as it activates and sets again. It's unlikely it has much to do with the acrylic version-

I spray DuPont automotive clear and have not observed this- but you can get into issues if you spray at the wrong temp for the activator you mix with. I would check that your at the correct temp range for the product your using. If not FIX that immediately. If you are- then it seems like that is not in fact identical to the typical 2 part automotive. True 2PAC cures and cannot be deactivated by solvent from a top coat. It's designed that way- whereas a laquer top coat sprayed onto a thick bottom can soften the entire thing and cause serious wrinkling- like your seeing. I basically think Vic is right- but maybe you can use your product- just check a few things like recommend temp and temp your spraying as it's possible it's not curing right.

Good luck- this stuff sucks but it's not normal and should be easy to fix. Possibly by changing products- possibly by checking cure and temp. Good luck!! Keep on keepin on!!

#100 3 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

I am almost certain that what you are seeing is the top coat of clear reactivating the bottom coat and the paint in between getting munged up and wrinkled as that occurs because it does not activate with the clear and is effectively a brittle layer that heaves with the bottom coat expanding and contracting as it activates and sets again. It's unlikely it has much to do with the acrylic version-

Hi Rufessor! Thanks for dropping by my own little topic of hell!

One thing I should point out is that this is not happening with a 2PAC. It's the SprayMax 1k (not 2k). Nevertheless I think you are exactly right.

I'm actually doing multiple layers (top, bottom, with acrylic in between) just to test this stuff out. It's interesting and a decent learning experience!

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