There’s just more people in the hobby today than ever before. More people means more people with resources, more demand creates higher prices end of story. Think of it as the gentrification of pinball.

Paging CrazyLevi

Oh boy! Another bubble thread

Please let the bubble burst so i can buy more! LMAO

What I see now is just another generation of collectors, causing hot sellers market. Money being printed by Uncle Sam is helping pinflation. Trend starts with high end collectibles, then trickles to basics.

Inflation is coming, maybe not eighties hard, but it’s coming.

Always cash on the glass for new or used

It is already here and going to get worse.

This guy is notorious for doing mid-level restores on games and asking insane prices. He is what I call a idiot who is hoping some other idiot or uninformed buyer takes the bait. most of his stuff sits on ebay for years going unsold.

Quit looking at the overpriced ebay pins. Those are not good examples, and those games have been listed and relisted for years. They aren't selling (at least the majority are not).

Yes you can find a few decent actual auction pins on ebay, but for the most part, no.

There is a new bubble thread about once a month or so. This is generally a rich persons hobby, so don’t expect much leverage. Carry on

The inflated prices for pins will crash, along with other Collectable Markets when assets need to be liquidated to pay the bills.
That has not happened yet.
I do see Ems and early SS reaching commodity status, they will consistently command a set price if in good working order with good cosmetics.
When SHTF I see everything for sale if the price is right.

We are just simply in the middle of a "pindemic".

My suggestion. Don't buy pins.

The poll results make a great deal of sense. A few charging on a credit card, then paying it off. The majority using cash on hand. Speculators are much more likely to be into NFTs or Gamestonk or Bitcoin/Dogecoin or Pokemon boxes. Pinballs are large heavy objects difficult to sell quickly. Bubbles usually happen with items that have little intrinsic value or have "never gone down so you can borrow infinite to sell later at a profit". Pinballs don't really fit either very well.

The Pinside bubble could pop any day now....

0BDF4536-9A58-4212-B01E-3D8A72BFD63E (resized).jpeg

not a good comparison
the housing market was billions of dollars of loans made out to people who could not afford to take out the loan in the beginning
other than the house, these people owned nothing of value
banks borrowed money from other financial institutions, who borrowed from other financial institutions, it was a big ponzi scheme just waiting for someone to sneeze

I doubt that many pinball machines are bought on finance, and those have done so, also own cars, motorbikes, TVs and other stuff a foreclosing bank can sell off
and even if the pinball market collapsed tomorrow, the finance companies total pinball liability would be less then $1 mill

Yeah this thread is st00pid

Used =cash .New =southwest visa use the points for airfare pay off end of month .All in all would never buy a pin unless it’s covered that day .You know like how the dollar used to be backed by gold

From what I've seen, many pinsiders (that post) are on the upper tier of the money. Others, with tons of games, bought many of them long before they went crazy in prices.

I will say I did think Corona was going to mark the beginning of fire sales, but the opposite happened.

I don't buy pins as investments, so I really don't care what prices do. I have limits in what I will spend, but...even that gets broken on occasion.

On the plus side I've only taken out my 3rd mortgage and maxed out 17 credit cards to buy pinballs. Yeah, I did sell my grandmother to a sweat shop, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Hobbies don't pay for themselves.

If you are borrowing money to buy pinball machines please seek help.

I personally think the current real estate market more resembles the 2008 situation (at least with price escalation in my region), but don't want to derail your thread/poll with that rathole. I find the results so far interesting (and kind of expected) - 90% pay cash.

-Rob
-visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that help fix WPC pinball resets or my pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

Yea, this is a dangerous move

These threads... There is no value in your data. Pinball prices have more to do with the rise of new parts and repair guides and the internet than anything. When demand diminishes, games won't go back to $0. Alot of games were paperweights and now they are easily repairable.

The only debate is how much money will be cut off the top on flipping games.

90% of people pay cash, 9% use credit cards and pay them off for the points, 1% sell their smelly ass bodies on the side.

Honestly, what is not a "bubble" at this point?

Take a pick:
Student loans
Auto loans
Housing
Stocks

This is just a guess of course but I think a vast majority of pinball buyers are not made using a loan / credit card to purchase games. I could be wrong as many distributors now accept a credit card and apply a fee to the total cost. I would say 90% of buyers pay in cash / immediately pay off their credit cards while the other 10% are on credit / personal loans.

As for the $12,000 high speed game that's just unrealistic crazy Ebay pricing and it has been going on for 10+ years. The same thing occurs on Ebay with other collectible items.

Here we go with the "world financial system is just a giant ponzi scheme" conspiracy theories

Well can someone just pop the bubble so I can buy my next pin

Why have any concern? If someone overleveraged that was their decision.

Pinball a hobby not a government protected retirment investment plan .

Shane

Exactly. I don't need Jerome Powell to lie to me about the nonexistence of inflation to know that is in fact here. It's all around. Everything is up.

Exactly! Lots of people have CC debt whose to say they overspend on pins or a boat. It happens all the time unfortunately. It used to be, you borrow money, you pay it back. Now it’s, you borrow money, remain irresponsible and blame someone else.

From a price perspective our first (and more realistic) wish is for prices to level off which will happen before they go back down. If they go back down. Somewhere out there someone is paying these prices. Until that stops that’s what the market will take.

I like to point out the raw materials and labor that went into making an EM. If they were to make some EMs today they’d probably be just as expensive as the new stuff. I’ll bet it would cost a lot more to build and wire up a 4 player EM than drop an LCD in. By these standards that will keep EM prices competitive into the future.

I am personally hoping for a really nice deals to pop up in real estate, not pinball.
24 months. That is my potential window.

I always buy with cash. If I can't afford it, then I can't have it, so simple. Loaning for pinballs is rather stupid imo.

Then, according to your avatar, you must not be drinking too much coffee!

Prices on just about everything are over inflated right now, there is so much money floating around in the economy right now! As long as the Fed keeps printing and rates stay at or near zero that’s the way it will be. It’s not just Pinball prices that are inflated, try buying a used pick up truck.

Just stop. You are using life experiences and comparing them to a collectible niche hobby. All we know is that you are middle aged and you think pinball prices are too high. Just go play some pinball and calm down. Why does it matter? You are the only person that can determine if something is not priced right. Commenting on the price something is listed for or that the market is due to crash is not something anyone has control over. If it happens, it happens. You are just annoying people, you are not helping anyone here. For everyone else in this boat, let it go!

It’s just like saying in 200 years, no one will collect pinball machines. Who cares? Let it go man. This is all understood stuff in our hobby, we don’t need another thread about it.

It's ok. He did a "search" which revealed there hasn't been a price bubble thread in 4 years, and that there has always been a dire shortage of moronic price speculation speculation threads. Not sure how he missed these though, must have slipped through the cracks of his Sherlock-like investigation:

2000:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J

2001:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ

2002:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ

2003:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ

2004:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ

2005:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J

2006:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ

2007:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ

2008:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ

2009:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ

2010:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ

2011:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ

2012:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again

2013:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop

2014:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble

2015:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball

2016:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst

2017:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble

2018:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet

2019:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-

2020:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-dropping-

2021:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-pricing-bubble-due-to-covid-one-nine

I have never bought a game on credit, but I know a lot of people that have bought a boat, motor home, dirt bike, motorcycle, etc. on credit and never felt the need to tell them to seek help.

Spend your money however you want and get whatever brings you joy.

Here’s a personal story full of facts you all will ignore

In 2002 I was 19 and got a FHA loan for my first house in Akron OH.

2008 happened because of people like me.

I had 0 credit and was making 350 a week at a pet store and my girlfriend was making less working 25 hours a week at the Akron library.

Banks were pressured to give out more loans in low income neighborhoods which is were my house was. Some say it was to help get the numbers up to show minorities getting loans but basically people could get loans with no problem. I owned that house until last year. But a 19 year old making 350 a week in 2002 with no credit history got a FHA mortgage for a HUD home for 75k with no problem.

I do not see companies like Stern creating credit departments and giving loans for pinball machines for people in low income areas with no credit history or income ratio perimeters.

You can’t compare pinball sales to the 2008 crash.

After my short rant above. I agree with you.

Cash. Less personal debt bubbles today unlike 07/08. Many first/newer pin buyers have the money to burn regardless driving up prices during covid. Supply line snags and raw good prices are contributing as well.

Ah, Levi, you did not let me down. I was watching for that post.