(Topic ID: 136572)

Silverball Mania, worth a new playfield?


By Riptor

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 82 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Joey_N
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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There are 82 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 years ago

I would talk to who ever you purchased from. Almost sounds like a second.

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's not boring if you put the new ROMs in.
Same as TZ, it sucked until the new ROMs came out 7 years latter.

interesting, I didn't know that, since you have been in the pinball business back then, would you care to elaborate? I came in the hobby too late when TZ has already been established as a best game ever (not exactly sharing that opinion although I find it excellent)...

#53 4 years ago

I managed to get some pics that show the issues better. I also noticed many inserts are slightly raised and the playfield is slightly warped as well. Looking at it a little closer I am going to guess the clear was laid on too thick and it wrinkled when it dried. There are a couple smudges where it looks like someone touched it before drying.
Another noticable blemish is an imprint of a star insert right between the two star roll-overs. Looks like someone laid it on the clear before drying. Its somewhat visible in the second picture but really noticeable in person.
So tell me, if you spent $700 on this would you be satisfied? Is this typical CPR quality? If so I wont be buying any more of them.

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#54 4 years ago

Looks like hell. Send it back. If you install it, it will bug you every time you play it. Literally

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from Riptor:

the playfield is slightly warped as well.

That should go away once the rails are installed.

Quoted from Riptor:

So tell me, if you spent $700 on this would you be satisfied?

CPR playfields are better than the old OEM ones were when new, but if you want that million dollar sheet of glass look, you have to put a real automotive clear coat on them.

You can't really expect a $400 dollar clearcoat on a $700 playfield, if you know what I mean.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-to-expect-from-a-new-cpr-playfield

#56 4 years ago

Something very wrong with that playfield...

#57 4 years ago

I got my game and spare parts today. It will be a while before I can get to it, but it will be sweet when finished!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-you-like-paragon-you-will-love/page/5#post-2678278

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

SBM has the best art of any pinball machine ever

It really dose have some kinky stuff going on with the art on this game. The guy on the backglass is really enjoying the hell out of the coin return slots.

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from GSones:

The guy on the backglass is really enjoying the hell out of the coin return slots.

Nothing wrong with enjoying a nice slot.

#60 4 years ago

Where did you get the playfield from Riptor?

#61 4 years ago

spend the dough and let Kruzman fix it up, you wont be dissapointed, byw hes also has xenon playfield
my brother is doing a swap on it now, I will be afraid to play it when its done its some damn nice

#62 4 years ago

Not sure where you bought the playfield from but here awhile back I remember seeing some wall hanger SBM playfields being sold on ebay by CPR. They stated in the description that they all had issues and were best used as wall hangers. If I remember right, they had warp, paint, or clear issues.

Perhaps someone bought one on the cheap and flipped it?

#63 4 years ago
Quoted from grbgemen:

Not sure where you bought the playfield from but here awhile back I remember seeing some wall hanger SBM playfields being sold on ebay by CPR. They stated in the description that they all had issues and were best used as wall hangers. If I remember right, they had warp, paint, or clear issues.
Perhaps someone bought one on the cheap and flipped it?

Did your playfield have the official Bally/Williams license emblem on it under the apron like the one just pictured in the other thread? Makes you wonder if its not like grbgemen states, simply a factory reject that has passed through a few too many hands and never intended for an install (although its still better than most original SBM fields).

#64 4 years ago

Mostly when people complain about art and clearcoat, etc I'm like what? In this case, I agree with you. That looks like crap and I would not install that in a game, that's for sure. Maybe you can get your money back.

#65 4 years ago

No, it does not have the Bally sticker on it. I bought it from Planetary Pinball.
I didnt pay an extra $50 for the "guarantee" not to get a crappy product.
Im buying a xenon playfield from Kruzman. I already have too much $$ in this SBM so im going to take care of this one myself.

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from Riptor:

I didnt pay an extra $50 for the "guarantee" not to get a crappy product.

Please explain that is terrible. I was thinking for sure you were going to say no I purchased for 160 on eBay and it clearly stated no returns or refunds.

It looks like the grain is ruñning the wrong way? Wait you shouldn't be able to see the grain.
Oh my. Sorry to hear this.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from Riptor:

No, it does not have the Bally sticker on it. I bought it from Planetary Pinball.
I didnt pay an extra $50 for the "guarantee" not to get a crappy product.
Im buying a xenon playfield from Kruzman. I already have too much $$ in this SBM so im going to take care of this one myself.

You bought it from PP and it didn't have the sticker? That does not sound right at all... but what the hell do I know...

Good luck!

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

It looks like the grain is ruñning the wrong way? Wait you shouldn't be able to see the grain.

It's not the wood grain running the wrong way, it's a bunch of sags in the clearcoat.

The wood grain is running in the normal direction, you can see that in the full picture on page 1.

I'll bet the playfield was sprayed on it's back, then stood up too soon and the sags pulled the 1/2 cured finish that way.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That should go away once the rails are installed.

CPR playfields are better than the old OEM ones were when new, but if you want that million dollar sheet of glass look, you have to put a real automotive clear coat on them.
You can't really expect a $400 dollar clearcoat on a $700 playfield, if you know what I mean.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-to-expect-from-a-new-cpr-playfield

Are CPR playfields cleared by hand or by robot? Or is Mirco the only one who has a robot for clear coating?

#70 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Are CPR playfields cleared by hand or by robot? Or is Mirco the only one who has a robot for clear coating?

Hand.

#71 4 years ago

I was given a poke in email to come see this thread. So I am here with my jaw dropped as much as anybody, truth be told.

I have no idea why the clearcoat looks that way. There is always some mild "grain ripple" in any virgin clearcoat (on new wood) after 1-2 years (SBM's made in 2012) but it is vertical and very very mild... to the point it can be completely removed to glass flat using the 3M finishing process as described at our site.

This is not that. This is horizontal (???) and deeeeeeeeep grooving. That is not traditional grain ripple. It appears to be 10X stronger.

The bug is a sign. That NEVER happened here. No playfield makes it out with a bug. It also wouldn't / couldn't be missed - as every playfield goes under the gun 4-5 times. So it's seen, in detail, under spotlights, 4-5 times. Not to mention final inspection for the grading into firsts / seconds. (Gold/Silver/Bronze didn't exist in 2012) I have absolutely no clue, but it looks re-cleared or something. (???)

No, we don't stand playfields up - at any stage of curing - so it's not sag. They are always on racks here, like food trays at a cafeteria. Right up until shipping.

The "what to expect from a CPR playfield" thread from 3 years ago is also bunk. Was bunk then, is bunk now. Sorry. NONE of those examples were anything close to even the "standard" quality we expect/release. The Space Shuttle run had it's dropouts in the wood, as that mill was shitty and we divorced them soon after. Lots of pinholes around openings that sucked down clear and would never close over. But they were only on around 20% of the Shuttles, and even if existing, were tiny to see unless glaring them against a sunbeam and wanting to accentuate them in a picture.

Never had pinholes again, after Space Shuttle. So it's definitely NOT "what to expect" ...

"Trash in the clear" , "Smudges" , "Crud" , and "Raised Inserts" are NOT to be expected in ANY CPR playfield. Grey paint weeping into insert holes on the backside ? Space Shuttle run yes, maybe on 1 in 30 playfields, on a couple holes if any. Shuttle was literally a transition playfield where we had new employees do the grunt work. They unlearned a whole lot of things on that playfield. They were rolling the grey enamel on the backs like they were painting walls. Just slurping it on... wayyy too much. They got spanked for that one, and quickly toned down how they apply the enamels.

I remember that Sexy Girl playfield. I cleared those... and THAT one too. That was literally ONE out of 50-60 made that had that. It was my fault, and it got off the rack and out the door because it wasn't glared under a sunbeam to reveal itself at any stage before packing. Of course, it makes it to front page news here as "What to Expect". No. Absolutely not what to expect. It was 1-in-the-whole-run. I believe we did an exchange, correct? Or had it returned for a complete re-shoot?

Expect what you see in our galleries. Those are randomly pulled examples (not cherries!) from each run. Put outdoors or under the spotlights and shot with a camera. No tricks. THAT is what you should expect. Clearcoating is not hard, and not rocket science. The near biblical treatment clearcoat gets in the hobby, however, is astounding. It's treated like it's supposed to be liquid diamonds.

By the way, CPR clearcoats ARE 2-part auto clear ("2PAC" as commonly referred on here). So planning to take CPR playfields out and have them shot (again) with 2PAC is pretty much a redundant / waste of money. As explained at the site, the big secret behind those "$600" clearcoats is the rubbing/buffing work. Take your CPR playfield, which has PLENTY of clear on it to work with, and after 6-8 months take it through the 3M finishing process. You'll end up with a "$600" perfect glass finish. For a few bucks worth out of the kit. Literally. Spend a good hour per step, and you'll be stunned at the final finish. It's what those in the perfectionist camp want in the end anyway, for that "extra special" glossy speck-free finish... so any CPR playfield can end up that way with the added homework. It's just simply not the way the playfields are going to be done in production, or we'd be able to do only two runs per year... with 60-70% of our manhours spent on perfecting/rubbing clearcoats for months. Which would be silly.

A steel ball wrecks it all anyway... over time - billions of microscratches, dimpling of the wood, etc. It's a losing battle. These aren't meant to be wall hangings under halogen spotlights. They're meant to make games gorgeous and fast.

So back to this SBM at hand... I don't know what is going on. I've never seen cave rippling (and horizontal?) like that in my life. Don't know what happened, or what the backstory is. Stuff like that would NEVER leave the shop... again, the bug is a sign. It's perplexing. I simply don't know what to say.

Yes, there were severely warped/crappy SBMs ("thirds") sold out into the market to clean them outta here. We considered them suitable for momentos or wall hangings. But if this was from PPS, it can't be one of those... we sold the scrappy ones on Ebay.

I'm stumped. Really stumped.

One thing is for sure, I'm sure glad that last year we started heat-branding the quality grade on the ends of the playfields - and hologram serial numbers are also logged... we can trace provenance and grade forever now... pretty much tamper-proof... and that will follow each playfield through the rest of its life so a few end users can't perform monkey business and trick future buyers. (buying bronzes, selling as alleged golds for +$$$ later)

I'll leave a few shots of what the typical SBM run-of-the-mill playfield looked like, taken outdoors in the sun, back in 2012. THIS is "what to expect from a CPR playfield" ...

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KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

#72 4 years ago

Unless I missed it, we still don't know who the op bought the playfield from. Not that it really important, but the kicker for me is the missing hologram.

#73 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBellMan:

Unless I missed it, we still don't know who the op bought the playfield from. Not that it really important, but the kicker for me is the missing hologram.

A few posts up...it came from planetary pinball.

#74 4 years ago

Ok, I spent around 5 hours on this tonight and got it done. I was able to get it straightened out without respraying it. Here are some shots after flattening with 800 grit.

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#75 4 years ago

Here are some shots after sanding, polishing and wax. Sanded with 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000.
Its hard to get good pics because of the glare, but thats a good thing

Finished01.jpg
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Finished05.jpg

#76 4 years ago

Sucks you had issues, but that playfield turned out very nice!

#77 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBellMan:

Sucks you had issues, but that playfield turned out very nice!

Thank you, I am satisfied with it. No way was I putting it in the game as it was.

#78 4 years ago

Man, that looks 100% better!

#79 4 years ago

Amazing result! Makes me wanna sand my CPR playfields and finally do all the playfield swaps I've been putting off.

1 week later
#80 4 years ago
Quoted from KevinCPR:

The "what to expect from a CPR playfield" thread from 3 years ago is also bunk. Was bunk then, is bunk now.

LOL

That is the product you shipped your customers.

So I guess you shipped "bunk" out to those poor guys.

#81 4 years ago
Quoted from Riptor:

Ok, I spent around 5 hours on this tonight and got it done. I was able to get it straightened out without respraying it.

Nice salvage.

Really looks great!

#82 4 years ago

I think that SBM is one of the games worth a repro playfield due to the incredible art package. Same with Fathom and KISS. They're just cool to look at. I have a rough project game, but the CPR playfield and plastics set for it.

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There are 82 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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