(Topic ID: 209402)

Silverball Mania / New Member


By PulpFiction

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Quench
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 1 year ago

Hello everyone and please bear with me this is my first post and first machine. I have tried putting this off by reading a lot of posts but I need your help. Speaking of help if just a few more people in the world could be just half as helpful as everyone on this site, the world would be a lot better off. Anyway I have a ’79 or’80 Silverball Mania and a ’67 Williams “The Bootles”. I haven’t turned on the Bootles machine and spending my time on the SM. My goal was to get all the lights working and switches working and leaving the “patina” let’s say and trying to sell it but I can’t because it’s too erratic. It boots up about 3 out of 5 times. I either get the full (7) flashes on the MPU or just (2). When it works it works I only have (2) bulbs left to replace and (1) display is out but it has what I believe you call “hacks” in it. Please see attached pictures and yes with all that stuff it still works but I can’t live with that. My main question on this post is with the erratic behavior should I replace the rectifier board first or MPU? I have the manual and I have tried recording the readings on all (7) test points on the MPU but I’m not exactly sure what the reading for each should be. Sorry for such a lengthy post and I hope I got some of the terminology down.

PF

P.S. I don’t want to come off as putting a band aid on this unit, I’m just not sure how far to take the machine. I have a way of just going over the top with things when it comes to refurbishing them.

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#3 1 year ago

It's hard to tell without looking at it personally, but the "hacks" just seem like someone splicing in new wiring, if in an ugly way. Meanwhile, if you are getting only two flashes sometimes, it sounds like your 5051 RAM is either going bad, or has bad connections. The third flash that should be there is the "RAM OK" flash. It's very common for acid damage to effect this IC, so if you know anyone who can solder, that'd be the first thing to replace. As for the display that is out, try swapping the display with another one that works. Like say player 3 is out. Swap player 3 with player 4. If player 4 works and player 3 doesn't, it means that the display board or wiring is bad. If player 3 works, but player 4 doesn't, it means the display is probably bad. You can try reflowing the solder on the pins for the display, but given the age of these machines, it may just be kaput.

Edit: To fully answer your question, it's the MPU having problems, not the rectifier board. But why spend $150 minimum to replace the whole thing, when a $2 chip can fix it?

#4 1 year ago

Welcome!

Start with the systematic approach and give attention to each board. You'll need to go through things like checking each fuse for correct value, etc... but the general idea is to get the rectifier board within specification first and apply any needed reliability mods including repin of connectors if needed, Then add in the SDB board - paying the same attention to it as the rectifier board. The SDB board is just as critical as the rectifier board, as it provides your clean DC logic voltage and your display voltages. Both these boards must be reliable and stable before tackling the others. Some of your problems may be simply some old connectors that need to be repinned. Read the tech docs to help understand your system to get the game running reliably.

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

#5 1 year ago

I know this doesn't address your question but your MPU has the old rechargeable battery soldered to board. Really need to cut that off and install a remote battery holder(cheap) or install NVRAM which costs a bit more. Even if you are just cleaning it up to sell it's a necessary update.

#6 1 year ago

Just as I thought an enormous amount of info and help. Thanks very much and I’ll get to work and report back. Wayout440 that link will keep me busy for sure
PF

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from PulpFiction:

Just as I thought an enormous amount of info and help. Thanks very much and I’ll get to work and report back. Wayout440 that link will keep me busy for sure
PF

Credit goes to Clay Harrell, who graciously and thoughtfully compiled this valuble information for the future of the hobby.
https://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/22/people-the-cult-of-clay-harrell/

#8 1 year ago

Hello U10 on the MPU was very crusty all of the other connections look just fine. So i want to order this chip, (1) display (I moved one to a good location and the problem followed the display) I'm hoping all (5) are the same. I need to get the upgrade for the battery on the MPU and a new rectifier / transformer board. My main question here is do I use the Bally part numbers when ordering and hate to ask this but can you point me to a supplier. I have attached pictures as well. You guys and girls are the best. One more thing swillie mentioned NVRAM instead of the battery upgrade. Where can I buy this and what does it look like.

PF

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#9 1 year ago
Quoted from PulpFiction:

mentioned NVRAM instead of the battery upgrade. Where can I buy this and what does it look like.
PF

http://nvram.weebly.com/

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/14-nvram-battery-eliminator-5101-module-vids-review

#10 1 year ago

I mostly use Marco Specialties for most pinball specific parts, but I have used some others depending what I was looking for such as Big Daddy Pinball and Pinball Resource. For generic electronic parts I've used Digikey and Mouser mostly.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pinball_Parts_Suppliers

1 week later
#11 1 year ago

Sorry to keep bugging but i'm pretty green. I'm getting confused by what I see in the manual i have and the actual part numbers on some of the boards. All the boards match the manual but the MPU board. All i'm needing (for now) is the I.C. located on U10 (white dot on picture). This is what is printed on the top of it
F6820
7813
SINGAPORE

My MPU board has a PN of AS-2962 1119-E and the manual has AS-2518-35. I feel i should just ignore the manual or am I just getting to worked up on the part numbers in general? Is this just a 6820 / 6821 switch. Heck i'm sure it's not even called a switch. I'll get the lingo down

Once again thanks for all your help

PF

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#12 1 year ago

"This is what is printed on the top of it
F6820
7813
SINGAPORE"

That is a 6820. The F stands for Fairchild the manufacturer
7813 is the year and week the chip was made.
SINGAPORE is where you go to get laid in asia.

#13 1 year ago

I know I'm pretty "green" but I do understand that. Very funny stuff. Best laugh I got today!

Thanks PF

#14 1 year ago

Hey can I get some help with 6 digit scoring display AS-2518-21 please. 5 of the 6 work great and when I move the bad one to a different location the problem stays with the display. This bad does nothing at all but all the voltages on it match the working ones. If I could purchase just one that would be orange like the others I would go that direction. Any info would be great

Thanks PF

#15 1 year ago

Most common reason for digits going missing is the 100k resistors on the display boards are underrated and burn out.
See the picture here of the six larger cream colored resistors that have been replaced (three bottom left, three in the middle).

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:B-disp-r2.jpg

You need to test those resistors with a multimeter to see if any are reading much higher than 100k ohms resistance.

#16 1 year ago

The display has power so that is good. Take the display out and reflow all the solder connections. Could be a simple as a bad display enable connection.
Quench is correct about checking the resistors. Do you at least have the orange glow from the bottom of the display? That is from the keep alive. If that is dead you could have a bad panel.

The display is completely blank but has keep alive glow you are looking for a main component failure. I would suspect the U1 chip. However start with the basics paying close attention to pin 15 and 10 of the connector.

#17 1 year ago

Thanks Quench and BigAl. I replaced all (6) resistors still no success and I never had the orange glow either like you mentioned. Can I purchase another one and it match the others or still keep messing with this one? I have a complete list of vendors and everyone I have used so far has been awesome but if you know where I can get the "orange" display that would be great.

Thanks PF

#18 1 year ago

Are you getting the lower orange glow on all other displays?

I suggest you give that display board a clean - hard to tell if anything is burnt under all that dirt. Then post some high resolution pictures of it (top and bottom).

You can get used original plasma displays on ebay. Stay away from ones with burn spots on the digits.

#19 1 year ago

Okay cleaned the board and swapped it around again still same. Never had the "glow" and all the TP measure the same as the good displays. Please don't make fun of my solder job. I'm guessing from your previous post you can't just buy (1) display that will match the rest. I would go for the plasma display like you mentioned on Ebay if I knew what to ask for.

Thanks Again PF

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#20 1 year ago

Search ebay for 'Bally 6 digit' and you will find new, old, and unknown replacements.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from PulpFiction:

Never had the "glow"

Are you getting the lower glow on the other displays?
I had a Stern display recently; can't remember what brand display plasma it had but it didn't have the lower glow (by design I presumed) yet it worked just fine.

Your soldering looks fine. Any chance you can post a higher resolution picture of the solder side? The pics above are too low a resolution to pick up any clear detail.

Your plasma displays with the digit separators look a little odd. Might be hard to find an exact match. I'd suggest just getting a working 6 digit Bally display and move the Credit/Ball in Play display to the faulty player position so all the player displays match appearance. Put the purchased display in the Credit/Ball in Play position where a different plasma will be less noticeable.

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