(Topic ID: 292534)

Siegecraft Sys 3-6 Drop Target Replacement Boards - Vid's Review

By vid1900

2 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by boscokid
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    #1 2 years ago

    Things that suck:

    1. Science Deniers
    2. Pedophiles
    3. Williams System 3-6 drop targets

    Pretty much in that order, although I understand if you want to move the drop targets up on the list.

    Everything about Sys3-6 drops suck.

    A contact problem on one side of the playfield, can keep the other side from resetting.

    They used tiny, fragile wires. If one wire is off, the game will never know the the entire bank is down, and just sit there until you drain.

    Many early games have no existing playfield schematics; so if you got a game that never worked, you might not have any reference on how it left the factory.

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    #2 2 years ago

    Sometimes 3 very short wires will be soldered to a single pad. A nightmare to solder in-game.

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    #3 2 years ago

    The "Horseshoe Contacts" wear right through the copper traces, leaving a game that does not know if drops have been knocked down.

    This is extra bad for a game like Pokerino, where the entire game is drop targets....

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    #4 2 years ago

    The contacts at the end of the Horseshoes often wear out, or completely break off.

    Then the ragged Horseshoe arm quickly chews through the copper traces on the board.

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    The screw mounts are tiny, using even tinier #3 screws.

    They were fragile 40 years ago, now you have to avoid even looking at them.

    Of course, you often need to take the screws in and out a few times to adjust the Horseshoe tension.....yesh.

    #5 2 years ago

    There have been a bunch of different replacement boards on the market, but the best ones I've found so far are the ones from Hans at Siegecraft.

    They have thick traces on the Horseshoe side, and you can use standard .156 connectors for easy service!
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    https://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=21&controller=product&id_lang=1

    #6 2 years ago

    You can solder the different board configurations yourself if you order from a 3rd party, or Hans will do it for you, if you order directly from him.

    Note that there are 3 different boards for Pokerino, so you have to pay attention to the differences.

    Some have tiny 0ohm jumpers, single or double diodes.

    Don't mix them up during installation!
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    (yes, I re-soldered that diode that had broken loose during shipping)

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    #7 2 years ago

    You get a full color schematic included with your order.

    Look closely at the different boards, diodes and jumpers. You need to follow this configuration exactly.

    You will use the schematic upsidedown like this assuming you have the playfield on your rotisserie.

    (I'm showing Time Warp, because the Pokerino schematic was not yet available at the time of this review)

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    #8 2 years ago

    The ass side of the boards.

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    #9 2 years ago

    Homepin makes the replacement horseshoe contacts that are sold by Pinball Life.

    https://www.pinballlife.com/drop-target-horseshoe-wiper-contact-blade-right.html

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    #10 2 years ago

    Adding the connectors is the next step.

    They are spaced for standard .156 Molex connectors that you probably already have a bag of.

    If this is your first time, you snip them to length with your diags. 8 pins each, to be exact.

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    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=26-48-1245

    Adding connectors to a small board can be tricky for nubies.

    A metal Paper Clip will hold the connector, while you solder the 2 outside pad groups.

    Then remove the clip, and do the inside pads.

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    #11 2 years ago

    Here you can see the boards with the .156 connectors installed.

    Note that I chose to remove different pins on each board, so they are **keyed** and can't be mixed up in the field.

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    The female connectors are crimped, as normal.

    If you need a guide on how to do that:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-re-populating-playfields#post-4545041

    #12 2 years ago

    On a 4 drop bank, it's even more important to make sure that each connector is keyed differently. 40 years in the future, someone will surely mess it up if you don't.
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    #13 2 years ago

    Here you can see the **Keying Plugs** that keep you from installing the connectors in the wrong board.

    It's not enough to just cut the pins, you MUST use the plugs too.

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    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=15-04-0219

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    #14 2 years ago

    There were no replacement Horseshoes for many years, so people had to put their own replacement contacts on the existing shoe.

    If the shoe itself was damaged, you were out of luck.

    Now, you can get new ones from PL (as pins4u mentioned above)

    https://www.pinballlife.com/drop-target-horseshoe-wiper-contact-blade-right.html

    The new contacts are much smaller than the originals, so adjustments will be even more necessary:
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    There are older "left handed" EM Horseshoes that are a mirror image of the above.

    They won't work in these drops, so don't order them by mistake.

    #15 2 years ago

    The Leftside Jack bank was so close to the edge of the playfield, that even with the support rail notched, I knew my client would likely break off any protruding Molex.

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    So I had no choice but to solder the wire directly to the board of the upper target.

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    One out of 9 aint bad.....

    #16 2 years ago

    Old Operator Trick #1281:

    If two of the Drop Target Guides are broken with different posts, you can swap the two, Left for Right (on a big bank, first for last)

    The new Post Holes don't have any screw threads (because they've never been used).

    You MUST heat up the screw with a Cigarette Lighter, and gently "tap" in the threads.

    If you just run a cold screw in, it will crack the new post too; because the post is 40 year old brittle plastic.

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    I did see later on that Siegecraft has replacement guides available. I should have bought a few and tried them out (hindsight being 20/20).

    You are going to need some....

    https://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=79&controller=product&id_lang=1

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    #17 2 years ago

    Probably by the time you read this, Hans will have the Pokerino wiring guide up on his site.

    With a little Horseshoe wiper adjustment, and a bunch of help from Seigecraft, we brought this beautiful corpse back to life.

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    #18 2 years ago

    The Horseshoe contacts are the classic "Goldielocks" problem.

    If the contacts are too loose, the game won't know if a target has dropped.

    If the contacts have too much tension, the drops will hang-up; or sometimes not report "all targets down".

    #19 2 years ago

    Nice write up. Think I'll get some for Laser Ball.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from chad:

    Think I'll get some for Laser Ball.

    You won't regret it. I used some on a LB that I restored, they worked great. I had a couple of questions during assembly and Hans answered them all very timely.

    Vid, thanks for another great product review!

    #21 2 years ago

    Will have to order some.

    #22 2 years ago

    We've rebuilt drop targets on several of our machines (Blackout, Stellar Wars, The Black Hole (rethemed Phoenix) using our own redesign, which we've freely shared for others to use --

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2792174

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The Leftside Jack bank was so close to the edge of the playfield, that even with the support rail notched, I knew my client would likely break off any protruding Molex.

    I have ZERO experience with these mechanisms / assemblies. Just trying to help.

    Would a right angle header work?

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    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=26-48-1246

    #24 2 years ago

    The factory design was direct soldered, with often 2-3 wires in a single hole. When I did these I added a few extra holes to allow just a single wire per, and then did the size/spacing to allow the molex connectors.

    So soldering the wires directly is far far more common, and closer to original, the molex connectors are an option if you want to go that route but are by no means required.

    I'd avoid using the right angle connectors though, as they may potentially interfere with the reset plates. Length is pretty critical in some machines, depending on which reset plate was used. Williams had a few different versions.

    -Hans

    #25 2 years ago

    Vid, you should check out my new replacement boards. These problems have been resolved.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacement-for-those-williams-horseshoe-sliders

    Quoted from vid1900:

    The "Horseshoe Contacts" wear right through the copper traces, leaving a game that does not know if drops have been knocked down.

    No horseshoe contacts.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    The contacts at the end of the Horseshoes often wear out, or completely break off.

    Nothing to wear out.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    you often need to take the screws in and out a few times to adjust the Horseshoe tension

    Quoted from vid1900:

    The Horseshoe contacts are the classic "Goldielocks" problem.

    If the contacts are too loose, the game won't know if a target has dropped.

    If the contacts have too much tension, the drops will hang-up; or sometimes not report "all targets down".

    No adjustment needed.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    Sometimes 3 very short wires will be soldered to a single pad. A nightmare to solder in-game.

    Extra column pads for additional wires. Series wiring for all targets down are on board. Saves on daisy chain wiring.

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    #26 2 years ago

    Nice write up - I can't be the only system 6 owner that frequently has to send the ball to the pops to get the targets to reset

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