I hope so - Kiss still needs some polish.

Once again. Lyman, dwight... Lonnie etc don't work assembling games. So production delays don't affect how fast code comes out

One would think so. Keith Johnson at JJP has been averaging one substantial code update a month for The Hobbit, a game requiring extensive programming due to its two LCD displays, 100% color changing inserts, deep + unique rules, etc.

How can Stern with multiple programmers take so long to put out code updates for their games and DMD based games at that? When their updates finally do hit some seem rather basic with no new additions to gameplay...I don't get it. The only thing I can think of is that Stern management moves their programmers to a new pin before the last one they worked on is completed.

Like I've said before, Keith Johnson must be the Jedi Grand Master, the Yoda, of pinball programming, lol

I think they are working on bigger projects that Gary has said will happen before the end of 2016.

Hope it's not 'The Pin 2.0'

I agree that some games have glaring bugs or omissions and should still be worked on until they are coded the best they can be.

Well lets see. JJP 2 games total, one in development.

Stern, lots total, some still getting updates (e.g. Avengers), at least 5 in production, probably 3 in development.

Not really a fair comparison, is it?

So is your point that you think Stern is doing a great job with code? Or is it that they have too many games out and so nobody could write good code with that many games?

It is a very fair comparison because the only people that control how many games are in production at Stern is Stern.

I loved the Game Of Thrones model. That game released with a pretty complete code base. Sure, it still needs polish, but overall, it was mostly complete. That is way better than the skeleton they ship with so the game leaves a bad impression. They don't seem to realize most location games play out their lives on the original shipped code.

kiss is stale and pretty much abandoned by stern. thats pretty messed up treating customers like this. live and learn.

Not really. Comparing JJP and Stern is off as they only have max 3 games to code. Probably a better comparison would be JJP to Heighway or DP.
For the record I got pissed off waiting for code for KISS and to some extent Star Trek but you can either wait 3 years for code and have no game or accept that the code is OK for site and buy. One thing you can't count on is that there WILL be updates.

Don't buy any pins with that code team, I believe they were responsible for XM also. That's the equivalent of NBA D-league

Is it? Seems no different than a bunch before it. Stale, yes. Boring as effing batshit, yes. Making it impossible to find a buyer for the game, yes. But abandoned? I'd say that's a bit speculative.

This is the simple truth.

I will never be a "day 1" buyer of any game from that team, and 1 person specifically.

Lonnie?

until new code is released i consider it abandoned. new code better be very good also.

Who did Ghostbusters?

Dwight.

You say that now....

We've all been watching people live and learn for years now, I don't think we do the learning part so good.

And again it's a 2 way street of a dilemma. You want new in the box, or you willing to wait for a nice used one. It's a roll of the dice on the value of a used one.

I agree that it is complete BULLSHIT to buy a product brand new in the box and have to wait months, sometimes years for updates for something that costs thousands of dollars.

Simple answer is yes. With less new releases this year the code team should have more time to polish games and future games should have more code upon release. Sadly it seems everything is being poured in the LCD development and pbr can crushers.

This is no different then it has always been though and the same people that complain keep right on buying. The only thing that seems to make people stop for a minute is major playfield issues.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Unless Lyman is the lead programmer, I will never again consider buying a game before the code is mature. I know a lot of people feel some sort of pressure to pre-order every new game, but it's just not a logical thing to do. Besides the very real possibility that you will lose a ton of money on the game, you are also sending the message to Stern that you support their practice of delivering games with incomplete code.

Now days lot's of stuff is shipping with incomplete code.

IMO Some of the bug fixes should be able to be done with minimal time and effort. For example XM has mystery mutant where you are shown a picture of Iceman and yet the shot to hit is not Iceman it's Storm. Likely this is as simple as changing one line of code or one word in one line of code just change the shot to hit being Iceman.

In Tron pro there is a feature super spinner, super pops, double scoring. It's a simple system that's used in countless games and in Tron LE and there is (should be) a callout that says 'Super Spinner' etc.. In fact Tron LE has this. How long would it take to add this to the pro code? Can't be more than a lunch break. I'd bet Tron pro and LE code are quite similar and there can be a cut and paste of a single block of code to make it work. It's not like I'm saying make up a whole new routine it's already done and sitting there in Tron LE.

The code team listed for KISS is the same one that supposedly did Mustang's and that code is great.