The 15-20k thing gets thrown around like it is standard Stern pricing. It was for one model of one boutique release. TNA, Houdini, JJP are all higher than Stern Pros. Sounds like Thunderbirds will be about the same as a Stern Pro, but until they start selling and are put under the same scrutiny as Stern gets all the time I think it is too early to start crowing about it.

And taking advantage of a minority? Hyperbole much? No one needs a pinball machine. Ever. For any reason. Nope. "Waaah, Stern took advantage of me and made me spend 5500 dollars on Star Wars and now I feel dirty". lol

Well, everything he said must be true, because it was on the internet. And his agenda wasn't obvious at all. The guy gave no hard numbers on defect rates, incurred costs, even said Spike was as reliable as SAM, which is hardly an indictment. Are Spike games going to be running and supported in 20 years? Who knows? JJP, Spooky, Homepin, Stern, could all be bankrupt and long gone. Less than 20 years ago Williams bailed on pinball and everyone thought that was the end. Hell, I might not even be alive in 20 years.

Get a game, play it for a few years (or months, or however long it takes you to get your yaya's out, then sell it and move on. Life is too short to be worrying about this bullsh*t. People are acting like Spike is supposed to be managing nuclear reactors or driving people's pacemakers ffs.

Aerosmith has bugger all on it? GB Pro? Metallica? AC/DC? I agree, Star Wars is stripped down. That's unfortunate but the solution is, if you don't like what they are selling, don't buy. If enough people agree with you, they will start adding stuff, start reducing price, or go out of business.

Wha? Where did I say (or even imply) they *should* charge more for it? What I am saying (again), is no one is getting taken advantage of. See above.

I agree with his points that Spike replacement boards should be cheaper, and I also agree they should be standardized. Everything else was kind of nitpicky imo.

Again, I say wha? Where did I say ACDC had a complex playfield? You said it had "bugger all" on it. I think for a Pro level machine it is decent. As for reproducing games from 20 years ago, the only thing it tells me that the those games were awesome, not that all modern games have something wrong with them.

You are well skilled at jumping to conclusions about stuff I post. I am not implying anything. I am saying outright that crying about being taken advantage of when you are a grown-up buying a toy is freaking hilarious. As for your point. of course they can charge whatever they want for their products. You understand how a free market economy works right? Only the market and the success/failure of their company will determine if they were right or wrong.

Have had several NIB Sterns, had clearcoat and paint chipping off of my X-Men playfield. Stern replaced it. No other problems. Do the problems exist for others? Yes. Shit happens with any manufacturer, the important thing is if they stand behind it, and in my experience, Stern does.

As for code updates, are you seriously complaining that there are too many code updates, so you have to re-learn strategies? lol, you have to be the first person ever to complain on Pinside that Stern has too many code updates. As for what I do, or do not do with my pins and my hobby, none of your business. You obviously don't like Stern pins, or what Stern does, so don't support the company. It isn't rocket science.

I wasn't the one trying to put them in the same category. That was kind of my point. RGR was talking about Stern and their charging 15-20k for NIB, and I was pointing out that was the exception, rather than the norm. That is all.

I 100% agree. JJP pins weigh more and have more stuff. I am impressed with how they are put together, and how much is jammed in there. When they come out with a theme that I can get behind I look forward to purchasing one. I do have to say though, for all of their stuff, I haven't found them all that much more fun to play than some Stern Pros and in some cases, not fun at all. Thought WOZ was a snore fest, and Dialed In is fun, but just doesn't give me that "one more game" feel. To each their own.

Could it be because pinball was dying a long slow death in the 90s and no one was interested in buying NIB games based on 80s titles? Pinball is hot right now, AFM and MM are classics with high demand. If they re-make every single 90s title and no one buys any more modern titles you might be onto something, but you just aren't making any sense.

You got me. A NIB pin had problems. Stern is the first and only manufacturer to have had this happen. Good catch.

The rate of incident increasing is yet to be proven. The internet wasn't around in the 90s with everyone freaking out everytime they saw a sliver of ghosting. Could it be increasing, and because of shortcuts? Sure, I suppose. But if they fix it for me I don't really care.

Then don't put up with it. Again, just don't buy. Good luck.

Dude, *you* brought it up by talking about whether I "participate in comps" or whether I route my machines. Are you drunk?

Because you keep going on and on like Stern impregnated your dog or something. I am suggesting it for your mental health. You're welcome.

At least you admit your complete bias which is more than most of the anti-Stern crowd. I can appreciate that. Good luck in your crusade to save the community. And thanks for once again putting more words in my mouth. I never once said I didn't have a problem with price increases (not buying an SW Premium because of it, I think AFMr LE is a better value), nor did I like having to get my playfield replaced. However shit happens (see chipping reports on Dialed In, on AFMr, playfield wear on WOZ iirc) so taking a stance like it is a Stern only problem is disingenuous at best, but I guess it serves your agenda.

As for people getting bent over, I would just recommend that anyone buying a NIB pin, or any multi-thousand dollar purchase put on their big boy pants and make up their own minds. Before you buy any NIB, whether from Stern, JJP, CGC, understand it may have problems out of the box and be prepared to deal with them. The good thing is, from all reports, all manufacturers are pretty good at responding to issues.

I don't care about the lockdown bar. Yes, it takes 5 seconds longer to latch/unlatch, but it holds the lockdown bar tight. Now if they ever switched Prem/LE to have those stupid support pegs instead of the rails I'd throw a full on hissy fit. But in a manly way.