They should just have two models. Base and Deluxe. Then make as many as needed.

They're in business to make money, so they should make as many as people will buy. Scrap the whole Limited Edition "LE" snob title and just have several variants of the premium, since the premium plays the same anyways. Maybe offer a few options, kind of like a car. Mirror backglass + $200, side armor rails + $50, powdercoated trim and legs + $250. You get the idea. You order your game how you want it through your distributor. I doubt Stern has in-house configuration management that could support this concept, but it could increase a few sales and profitability.

2 nd time for Butt Hurting in days. hehehe

I dont care how many LES they make. Just dont sell them in 3 places at once and f everyone up.

change models, make a limited amount of LE's but keep the same gameplay and table layout just different art, shaker motor, metal ramps, leds, better cab protection, powder coated etc
Even if you miss the LE you still get the same game just not as pretty.

Someone who got a MOPLE.

Someone that didn't and is bitter about.

The whole LE pre-ordering thing is starting to feel a lot like ticket scalping to me. I fu**ing hate ticket scalpers. In my opinion, they are the scum of the Earth. These days. if I want to go see The Who and sit in a decent seat, I pretty much have no choice but to pay 4-5 times over face. It's total bullshit!

It is all STERNS Fault / Not the Vendors in the least unless they were not given a # of games to sell ====== Period

Well, when you think about it that is exactly what any dealer is...a flipper. There is nothing wrong with it. Its just that some of them set a more reasonable price early and sell out quickly to get their money back, whereas some others set a high price and it takes awhile to get rid of them. And sometimes they get bit in the ass for it (as in those who sat on Transformers). Its a crap shoot for anyone to be a flipper.
Its probably not fair that we refer to any dealer as a flipper. We don't refer to car salesmen with that term.

No...they have premiums

Engineering and tooling costs are very similar when you build 10 or 10,000. Obviously when you sell more, you spread the cost out over more sales.

IMO, Stern's strategy is flawed. What they are doing is passing an opportunity for higher profits off to the distributors. Two versions is more than enough. If anything, most games should originate with one edition and if demand warrants a special edition, do it at the end of run, not at the beginning.

I empathize with you over the LE situation. That's not what I was referring to though. When people say "they should just make one version", my response is that the "multi-tier" thing works for Stern and they're not going to give it up.

What didn't work in this scenario was half the games going overseas, a chunk going to Metclub, and domestic distributors not getting as many as they had hoped.

Yeah, of course. Taking pre-orders is what got a few distros into trouble since stern makes no guaranteed promises of how many you get. They will give a distro an estimate based on that distros past sales, but overall for distros to commit to pre-sales is not ideal.

They should do two separate LE's one 500 and the other 500.

Isn't this is how Harley-Davidson ran their business for years is to produce a bit under the demand curve which creates the appearance of it being an exclusive club and makes people want it even more! Thus ensuring they didn't become a commodity motorcycle and could command a premium price. Fact is that for Stern, they are going to overshoot on some and undershoot on others depending on theme and perceived quality of the game. Who knew there was going to be so much mass hysteria over this one?

The big deal here that is being overlooked is we get our premiums we have been asking for. All we ever wanted was an open ended full feature game. And they knocked out a second one when we dud not like the first.
Thats some cool shit right there and when everyone calms down I hope they appreciate it.

In answer to the original post...NO

No. Most LEs would have no chance of selling 1500 units.

I don't think Stern should sell 1500, but I do think they need to do some custom tailoring of the number of LEs to the expected popularity of the machine (within reason). For example, we now have two places where Stern clearly screwed up: overestimating Transformers LE at 700, and woefully underestimating Metallica LE at 500.

Yes!

Could you ask them to produce some more AC/DC BiB's? I would like one NIB for $7200 please.

...and Tron LE @400

How about Stones LE @350? Too much? Just right? You rarely hear about this one but no one's really offered any blowout deals...so - maybe that was OK?

Mystery Award: Pops score 2X butt hurt value

To answer the question..... No , because 1500 is not limited.

Not trying to bash JJP, but 1000 Wizard of Oz LE,s is not Limited Editions

How about 1500 Hobbits?

Thats enough for me to not buy one NIB....just wait awhile and one will show up later for the right price. Especially since the original price is so high anyhow.

I really think that Star Trek is going to be the last game to command these prices depending on how many LE's they make. Lots of people looking forward to it and not many great titles left for manufacturers to pick from. And of course, more than one manufacturer in the market by then.

But on the other hand...what the hell do I know? I thought Metallica would be a flop.....

so 1500 is not limited, why? how many pinball collectors on the planet (anyone with a number?).

so jjp was wrong with 1000 woz and 1500 hobbits?

They're LE's as in they're numbered as in they put a cap on how many they make. If they didn't they wouldn't be LIMITED. Not sure what the problem is with the LE's if Premiums are available. The LE is the "options" over the pro, the LE is Limited Edition - not Luxury Edition.

Complete agree - but I'll take my LE anyway

What "could" be done is limiting the LE's to collectors vs distributors. But that would kinda mess with Stern's model of only selling through distributors. I think there are plenty enough LE's, with the problem being the Distributors would appear to get first dibs with no limit??

One version of every pin (playfield) I'm all for variations of cabinets - like different car colours! Hopefully relatively affordable so everyone can enjoy the hobby and have it less about being a status symbol.

How about 1000 Addams gold on top of 20k products units?

Yawn.....the peace corp is down the hall. Mahalo.

I think that was a wrong move. First off, don't even call them limited editions, just Emerald City Edition or whatever. From a "limited" standpoint they're so common there's no buzz or race to get one.

1500 LE hobbits? Yikes. So in other words, the non-LE will likely be the real LE. He listened to the fans but the fans aren't always right. I don't care what people say: people like to brag and show off their collections and have something the other guy doesn't. 1500 LEs is the equivalent of not keeping score at the little league game so no kid feels left out.

But that was in the days of most games being put out on location and getting used up. Most new games now are going into basement collections and looking like new 10 years later.

Its like the 69 Shelby GT500's. Those cars got driven in the snow, salt etc so there are very few survivors in any type of good condition. Fast forward to the 2008 models and they are all garage queens. The only ones that will fall by the wayside are the few wrecked in accidents or caught in garage fires.

Numbers like Adams family will never happen in the future in terms of production, and a larger percentage of every game made now will be a survivor. Eventually it will catch up with us and prices will drop because there will be so many "A" title games available. It won't be a crash...it will just be a leveling off of prices and then they will slowly drop as people need to get rid of a game to make room for a new one in a saturated market. Someday we will have to learn to live with depreciation again.

I know what your saying. It's hard to draw a number in the sand that would reflect what's number is " limited " and what number is not.

I don't know how many Metallica,s Stern will end up producing, but to give a example to prove my point of few, if Stern produces 5000 Metallica,s and 1000 of them are LE,s, that means 20% of the run were LE,s . 20% is not limited in my terms.

I think what this thread shows most is an appalling lack of understanding of what the word "limited" means!

Hugh? I thought it was Luxury Edition.

Premiums purpose is to fill this hole. I think in order to keep LE pricing they actually need to be Limited Edition like the name implies or what is the point of it?

just my $0.02

I disagree. The purpose of the LE is not to ensure a minimum number of sales, it is to cater to collectors who pine for limited editions, and other enthusiasts who want a factory-custom game. If Stern truly needed those sales, it would only work for a while, before a bad game gets released which kills interest in pre-ordering again. The proof is in the fact that Stern purposely does not pre-market a game, they wait until it's nearly complete and then push it out the door.

OTOH, it is JJP does need those LE pre-sales so that he use that infusion of money to build a pinball manufacturing company. It is why he pre-announces and keeps leaking out details to keep people enthused and involved. So don't confuse a one time start up event with the whole custom-limited-edition business model.

And why are there ticket scalpers? Because people buy from them, it's as simple as that. I have yet to encounter a ticket scalper who forces you to buy from them. If there's a market then such people will fill that void. Blame the people who buy them, if you HAVE to blame somebody. Just my 2 cents of course.

I don't know how it works in the rest of the world. But here you can't buy more then X amount of tickets on one name, with major concerts. And if the ticket is not on your name, or your not with the person who bought them, you can't enter the concert.

Personally i will and shall never buy (pure principal) from these people or company's (automated). If they can't sell there tickets or pins or whatever then they too shall dissapear. Utopia??

One model of premium and one pro model. Done.
It will give everyone the chance to own what they want and get rid of the flippers hoarding machines.
It would get rid of "I buy pins for investments" people. Let's get back to playing pinball and not using them for quick flips for profit. I'm sick of it.

Why in the WORLD would Stern ever do this?!

If anything, the METLE chaos confirms they can whip up super-hype demand before folks ever flip the first ball!

Stern doesnt give jack shit about 11 forum posters butthurt over not getting an LE...just the opposite- they're getting mainstream press over the fast sellout!

They should add MORE models... a super limited... make 50 and watch the nutjobs froth over themselves to get one...

Is anyone having an issue finding a Premium or Pro version? I didn't think so. You can get your hands on either one of these if you want.

If you want the LE, you've got to pay to play. If you're "sick of it" or simply don't like it, then don't partake.

Good. See now its already at least one easier for the rest of us.

+1,
I stopped buying stern machines, because of the LE mess. I like this approach above.

Nm my comment was repeat of jackal, drop LEs. Stern would lose the $600 difference but they don't make any money on the secondary price appreciation anyway. I guess the other benefit to them is they are assured a min amount of sales (LE likely will always sell out to distributors)