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(Topic ID: 218187)

Should Stern do multiple themes for the same playfield designs?


By OldSchoolBlood

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 38 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Vino
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    Topic poll

    “Should Stern do multiple themes of the same playfield design?”

    • Yes 44 votes
      44%
    • No 55 votes
      56%

    (99 votes)

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    92620678-B281-4257-9B1F-242C4A60E148 (resized).jpeg

    #1 2 years ago

    A regular response I see alot with Iron Maiden is "I absolutely love the game, flow, & design, but the theme does nothing for me" Got me thinking how I wish Stern would do multiple themes when a design is THIS good. If this was Evil Dead for example, I would be buying one.

    -Stern tried this in the past with "Family Guy" and "Shrek". Do you think Stern should revisit this?

    #2 2 years ago

    No.

    More monies, more time, more bullshit all around. Just have everyone grow up and stop being theme whores and deal with it.
    They can't even put out a SW topper currently...now we want to make it twice as hard?

    #3 2 years ago

    Space the launch of that same field layout a couple years apart. That way the diehard players would not already have game mapped and we at Pinside wont bring the pitchfork and torches.

    #4 2 years ago

    If it makes them a buck, they would probably do it.

    Although, imagine if Iron Maiden or GOTG was re-themed into Star Wars.

    I'd be interested to know what the most expensive or time consuming portion of development is these days. Code, maybe?

    #5 2 years ago

    With Family Guy/ Shrek. And Nascar/ Grand Prix , all r&d on parts was already done. Art, Software and voice/music would be it then.

    -2
    #6 2 years ago

    Hell no, I was pissed to realize that GOTG was essentially a heavily rethemed MET playfield. Ver disappointing but I got over it.

    I am really tired of Sterns business model. Think they should explore something original and non licsensed! Iron Maiden was rethemed Archer but I can live with thst.

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Although, imagine if Iron Maiden or GOTG was re-themed into Star Wars.

    It probably wouldn't be as good.

    #8 2 years ago

    Hell yes, I would buy an Iron Maiden layout with an Archer theme.

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    No.
    More monies, more time, more bullshit all around. Just have everyone grow up and stop being theme whores and deal with it.
    They can't even put out a SW topper currently...now we want to make it twice as hard?

    I never get this argument, if there was a winning design, that was pretty much universally loved, and you stripped it and slapped a different theme on it, wouldn't it be a ready made winner?

    I'm not a heavy rock guy, pins based on Maiden, Metallica, ACDC, don't do much for me. I'll play them, but would never want to own one. But all are great layouts and fun plays. Wouldn't it be great if you could choose from the option of one of those layouts, and then choose from a couple dozen bands to lay over it? Hell, you could have 3 different machines all based on Maiden if you did that.

    Design cost would go down, enable different songs to be downloaded and a few different skins to choose from.

    Yes there would be less overall designs presented, but would be a better option for the more casual buyer that's only looking for a few new machines to add to their collection.

    I know I'm missing something, but that model makes sense to me.

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rando:

    I never get this argument,....Wouldn't it be great if you could choose from the option of one of those layouts, and then choose from a couple dozen bands to lay over it?...

    In a vacuum sure why not.
    But Stern has to pay the artists to design the game, and they have to pay programmers to program diff'rent versions, and they have to make separate plastics, and cab art, someone has to edit/sfx the LCD package etc etc.

    Quoted from Rando:

    Design cost would go down,.

    I've been wrong millions of times and might be here, but explain to me how?

    #11 2 years ago

    No I personally don't like it because what if I like both themes but I don't want to own two of the same games just because they have different themes.

    #12 2 years ago

    Disclaimer: I don't know anything, I'm just a dude that casually likes/plays pinball. I'd like to buy a NIB or two someday, but the gameplay and theme haven't worked out for me yet. I was hopeful for SW but meh. GOTG may be a buy for me down the road. I like the gameplay of some of the newer music pins, but want none of them based on theme.

    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I've been wrong millions of times and might be here, but explain to me how?

    My assumption is that the design of a playfield is costly. Feature placement and experimentation and testing I assume are a long process that take a bunch of people and time and resources. I'm guessing that it would cost more to create 15 different playfields from scratch, and less to select 3 popular proven playfields and provide 5 different graphics/theme packages for each.

    Assumption is that audio and voice would be different for each, but basic programming the same.

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from OldSchoolBlood:

    A regular response I see alot with Iron Maiden is "I absolutely love the game, flow, & design, but the theme does nothing for me" Got me thinking how I wish Stern would do multiple themes when a design is THIS good. If this was Evil Dead for example, I would be buying one.
    -Stern tried this in the past with "Family Guy" and "Shrek". Do you think Stern should revisit this?

    No. This only makes sense when a game sells poorly, like family guy, or for one-off side deals
    Like Supreme.

    Why should they put all that work into a retheme of Iron Maiden when it’s selling well? To cater to the handful of dweebs who “can’t get over the theme.”

    Makes no sense. Those guys will just buy another stern game whose theme they can get over.

    #14 2 years ago

    They should ship you the bare bones (cabinet, flippers, LCD, computers, couple of shiny balls,...) and require you to theme and code it yourself.

    #15 2 years ago

    We already have enough inbred games already from Stern, don't you think?

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from okayestpinballer:

    They should ship you the bare bones (cabinet, flippers, LCD, computers, couple of shiny balls,...) and require you to theme and code it yourself.

    I think they currently call that “Supreme”.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Vino:

    I think they currently call that “Supreme”.

    I thought that was called "Magic Girl."

    #18 2 years ago

    no

    #19 2 years ago

    No.

    I'm glad an Iron Maiden pinball machine exists now and i'm happy for it's success. I'm happy it has such an awesome layout.

    Just because there are people who don't like the theme... Well...sorry?

    I don't care too much for the Fish Tales theme, but that won't stop me from ENJOYING that awesome pin.

    #20 2 years ago

    Had just talked about this last Thursday. I would love for them to do this. Probably get downvoted for this but I absolutely love TWD Pinball but I have zero interest in horror shows. Just not my thing, so I would love to see it re-themed. The music pins were brought up in conversation also.

    -4
    #21 2 years ago

    Yes! Off course, they should have done this long time ago.

    It will bring the costs down, better price for costumers. But they also should people allow to play all games on their pin.

    So you have an acdc pin, as it is now. They retheme it to lets say... uhmmm... deadpool, give it deadpool code. And than players who have an acdc pin can also swap to the deadpool code. This way they have multiple games on one layout.

    Off course you are playing deadpool with acdc toys on it, but it is only an extra on top of your acdc pin.

    And why only 2? Retheme the shit out of great layouts. It would be great if you buy your dreamtheme with a nice layout, and you can also swap to a few other gamecodes.

    Awesome for home and in barcades.

    When creating a new lay out, you can also pick your toys and grafix smart, knowing the multiple themes you are gonne use so they fit both themes. For example an airplane could fit on a mission impossible pin but also on a die hard pin.

    So many possibilities for costumers to get way more out of 1 pin. Than just that 1 (unfinished) gamemode.

    Stern could sell extra toys, lower cost, more fun for all, etc etc.... everybody would benefit. They could even sell the new code in a download package.

    People that dont like this i want to ask. If you have, or imagine you have one, a medieval madness pin. Would you be interested if you could buy a Monty python flying circus game mode for 200$? So you can swap from monthy to original madness code and back. Is there anybody in this world that has a medieval madness that will not like that?

    #22 2 years ago

    They already have.
    Research games released and compare playfield designs in the past 10+ years.

    #23 2 years ago

    if the playfield layout is great then yes

    liked the look of archer but it became iron maiden which looks cool but not a fan of the music.

    did a similar thread a few weeks ago with over 500 votes and ended up being close to 50/50
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-support-stern-in-re-theming-iron-maiden-for-another-game

    #24 2 years ago

    on the cost saving I had a very rough guesstimate

    As for cost to re-theme Iron Maiden game back to say Archer:
    - layout - (25%) - not alot which frees Keith to be a little involved but also working on his next game
    - mechs & manufacturing (0%)- win-win, as mechs / parts are swappable between the games which would possibly give stern a improved buying power ?
    - toys - (100%) - new character plastics, toys, etc
    - rules - (50%) - since many seem very very cool maybe a 50% change for adapting to the theme (50% time) - same rules designer
    - sounds - (100%) - yes a new cost (time and license)
    - callouts - (100%) - yes a new cost (time and license)
    - art - (100%) - yes a new cost (time and license)

    I know this is a very broad, vague and rough estimate, but roughly 7 areas = 475 / 700 = 68% new cost = so roughly 32% saving.

    so if stern are doing vaults why not do a re-theme

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    They already have.
    Research games released and compare playfield designs in the past 10+ years.

    Yup.

    KISS, meet AS!

    #26 2 years ago

    Absolutely not.
    Theres already so much cost cutting for mass production where would you draw the line?
    For instance the aprons now are just a generic piece of plastic that they just slap whatever decals on for whatever game its going into.
    In the 90s a lot of pins had really nice metal aprons that had silkscreened art on them specific to the game.

    Can you imagine if Stern jus started re-theming pins like this as a general practice?
    Heres how I would see the outcome.

    They just pay for whatever licensing and slap whatever popular theme is currently trending on a cabinet thats pre designed.
    They would become the Wall Mart of pinball just cranking out shovel ware.
    Why would you even need pinball designers?
    Just slap new art on a cabinet, change the plastics and the code and call it a day.

    Putting a Mercedes emblem on a Honda doesn't make it a Mercedes.

    Where would the cost cutting stop?

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    if the playfield layout is great then yes
    liked the look of archer but it became iron maiden which looks cool but not a fan of the music.
    did a similar thread a few weeks ago with over 500 votes and ended up being close to 50/50
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-support-stern-in-re-theming-iron-maiden-for-another-game

    That was a biased poll with 7 of the 9 options being "YES" for retheme.

    But go ahead and submit your findings to Stern. Since what you found was 50/50, maybe they will consider halting further production of Iron Maiden (because the music is so terrible) and use the remaining parts/stock to build Archer machines.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from SunnRAT:

    That was a biased poll with 7 of the 9 options being "YES" for retheme.
    But go ahead and submit your findings to Stern. Since what you found was 50/50, maybe they will consider halting further production of Iron Maiden (because the music is so terrible) and use the remaining parts/stock to build Archer machines.

    it wasn't a biased poll, as the poll just having options, because at the end of the day people could only vote once, and vote for a no or a yes option - no for keeping just iron maiden or yes to use as another themed game but only one vote allowed

    end of the day just a fun poll, so not worth the stress of some peoples reactions

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    Hell no, I was pissed to realize that GOTG was essentially a heavily rethemed MET playfield. Ver disappointing but I got over it.
    I am really tired of Sterns business model. Think they should explore something original and non licsensed! Iron Maiden was rethemed Archer but I can live with thst.

    Hate to break this to you, but companies have reused basic designs and tweaked popular layouts for decades... GOTG’s similarity to MET is nothing outstanding or unique.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from OldSchoolBlood:

    A regular response I see alot with Iron Maiden is "I absolutely love the game, flow, & design, but the theme does nothing for me" Got me thinking how I wish Stern would do multiple themes when a design is THIS good. If this was Evil Dead for example, I would be buying one.
    -Stern tried this in the past with "Family Guy" and "Shrek". Do you think Stern should revisit this?

    I had this same thought, but knew I’d get roasted if I suggested it. I’m in the “I’d buy IMLE (or prem) if it was a different theme” camp. So many other themes I would have bought. Oh well.

    It’s going to be an unpopular idea, but it would save stern some R&D. But in the end they would probably sell fewer pins.

    #31 2 years ago

    I think the mass market would definitely want the best layouts to have multiple themes. I don't care how good a Rosanne themed Pinball is, I would never own one. Theme is very important.

    If Stern can land a killer licensing deal (Star Wars, Dead Pool, etc...) they could get it in to production much quicker with a proven design, and for less development cost while being sure it will be a great game. Ya, the guy that already owns the Iron Maiden it was based on may be pissed off because he already owns that design but that would be a small part of the market.

    Also on the plus side, is that if development costs are significantly less, either prices will drop or Stern will make more money (which can be re-invested to get more games out) To me the only problem with this is that it might stifle innovation.

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from Scorch:

    ... either prices will drop...

    Pinside classic!

    #33 2 years ago

    I like having a diverse selection of games. Isnt that what makes this hobby fun? Just changing a theme and having the same exact layoit isnt going to do that for me. If I really want a game layout and that game play even though I don't really like the theme, I'm sure that I can compromise and buy it anyway.

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    I like having a diverse selection of games. Isnt that what makes this hobby fun?

    To a certain(t) segment yes...but check the poll; pretty sad.

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    To a certain(t) segment yes...but check the poll; pretty sad.

    I'm not sure why people treat it as an either/or scenario. Who says they couldn't release two themes with the same layout concurrently? Doesn't mean you won't get a new design 6 months from now.

    Why is it sad to pay for what you want?

    #36 2 years ago

    Absolutely. If the game is a great shooter with a great layout, and the manufacturer can attract a significant number of buyers with a new theme (like Shrek Vs. Family Guy), then yeah, a new theme is a great idea. Disclaimers: 1) I'm not a huge fan of the band Iron Maiden. 2) I'm unexcited by rock band themes because there have been too many lately.

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from roffels:

    Who says they couldn't release two themes with the same layout concurrently?

    Because it costs monies.
    again I understand the point of having 2 options, but why would getting 2 licenses, creating/manufacturing 2 completely diff'rent sets of physical properties (plastics etc) + animations for the LCD etc be cheaper?
    How would you get code updates, which change things displayed on the LCD and the audio to go with it, faster/same speed when they have to make them for multiple themes?

    I can't imagine it being cheaper or faster to get the same product I'm gettign now; that's the sad part. Once again people have talked themselves into this endeavor, not only being cheaper, but possible Stern will pass the savings to us.

    This is of course without even getting into what is the second "skin" (which makes everything sound easier than it is), is going to be?

    I Don't like Maiden's music really...so whats the other theme, what's hot these days? Or are we just assuming blanketing the market with another option will garenteed sell more games? What if the themes are...oh I don't know; aerosmith, WWE, Mustang? Does that get you excited? Maybe it does and that's cool I just don't think the making 2 themes is proven to do enough additional sales to cover the cost of doing more. Those basically are the same thing for me .

    This is new releases only. You want to re-theme vaults go ahead...which is what they've done anyway with SM. Don't know how may people said "ahh shit i always hated the movie version but i gotta get the comic book 'skin' of this." It's of course possible.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I Don't like Maiden's music really...so whats the other theme, what's hot these days? Or are we just assuming blanketing the market with another option will garenteed sell more games?

    You called?

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