I keep seeing machines listed as new out of box but no pictures of the actual box. How can one prove there was actually a box involved if the box is not provided. I am curious about everyone's thoughts about creating a rule that if you list a game as NOB you have to provide the box. Without the box the game is just HUO, which in my mind is completely inferior in terms of collectibility and shaves tens of dollars off the value.
It's all buzz words and marketing tactics. Pay the price the machine is worth, and you'll be happy. If you want a box, then buy NIB. If you're are willing to pay NIB prices for "NOB" games, then that's on you. What are you gonna do with the box anyway? Put it back in? How about asking for a receipt?
When did "NOB" become a term? Even if it is in perfect condition, if it's out of the box, it's not "new"
Maybe another option needs to be added for NOB undocumented? So you just have to take the person's word there was a box involved and judge on condition? I personally keep all my boxes. The box is a vital part of the pinball experience.
How about NKOTB.
Oh wait, that’s an old boy band, not another new stupid description for a huo game which in itself is hard to prove. As stated above, condition is the only thing that matters.
Quoted from Deez:I personally keep all my boxes. The box is a vital part of the pinball experience.
Are your boxes NOM? New Off Machine?
Quoted from Deez:there was a box involved and judge on condition
I mean, at some point there was a box involved. 
Quoted from TimeBandit:Are your boxes NOM? New Off Machine?
One thing that's also important to me is matching numbers on the box. I wouldn't put it past some of the shadier people in this hobby to pass off non-matching serial number box when selling a NOB.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I mean, at some point there was a box involved.
What if the box was damaged in shipping?
If I get a NOB with a bad or damaged box I usually do my best to restore the box.
It's been hard though due to the lack of a "VID's Guide to Box Restoration" thread... One day though, one day!
Anyone knowledgeable about pinball knows that the term NOB is ridiculous and meaningless and should stay away from any seller using it.
Quoted from mrm_4:If I get a NOB with a bad or damaged box I usually do my best to restore the box.
It's been hard though due to the lack of a "VID's Guide to Box Restoration" thread... One day though, one day!
LOL
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:There was still a box, lol.
NOB is silly.
Then what's the difference between HUO and NOB?
Quoted from Pinballmike217:Anyone knowledgeable about pinball knows that the term NOB is ridiculous and meaningless and should stay away from any seller using it.
This is what I think. A thing isn’t new once it’s out of the box. This is not a real term. Unless you’re buying the game unopened, -in a box- it is USED.
I get what Matt is getting at here but IMO this shouldn’t be a term we put any weight to. HUO makes sense because it conveys a (likely) level of care that a routed game probably wouldn’t have had put to it, and therefore less likely to have issues.
Quoted from Deez:Then what's the difference between HUO and NOB?
There isn't one, I completely agree with you.
I'm making a joke about the box.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:There isn't one, I completely agree with you.
I'm making a joke about the box.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:There isn't one, I completely agree with you.
I'm making a joke about the box.
Quoted from mrm_4:If I get a NOB with a bad or damaged box I usually do my best to restore the box.
It's been hard though due to the lack of a "VID's Guide to Box Restoration" thread... One day though, one day!
I would just send the box to HEP.
So how long does the duration of NOB status last...?
I've got a few pins that have been NOB for the last two or three years... I'm guessing they're worth more right... 
No such thing as nob. Unless you’re a distributor and the box was destroyed in transit, but game ok. Otherwise it is USED.
Quoted from Deez:Then what's the difference between HUO and NOB?
Deez I now have the answer.
NOB means the machine was setup for a showroom store or a show but was not played, it just sat there in attract mode.
HUO means the machine was setup and played in a home environment with several plays on machine but has never left home and gone to a pinball show or on a route to be played by 250 different players.
I hope this clears the air on the definition. 
-Mike
These marketing tactics are getting ridiculous. Our local forum currently has a guy trying to sell a machine for 3099.99... really? Just list it for 3100.
I wouldn't buy a game from anyone who is laying on the thick marketing BS.
Quoted from Maken:These marketing tactics are getting ridiculous. Our local forum currently has a guy trying to sell a machine for 3099.99... really? Just list it for 3100.
I wouldn't buy a game from anyone who is laying on the thick marketing BS.
I've got an original AFM for sale for $2999.
You aren't buying on principle?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I've got an original AFM for sale for $2999.
You aren't buying on principle?
BIN!
That aside, will you take the bribe, or The Mystery Box?!?
the box (resized).jpgThis whole topic is stupid! Nonetheless, when I pulled my AFM LE out of the box, I didn't want to save the entire box since it takes up so much space, so I cut off the section of the box where the name of the game and serial numbers appear and stored them with the game. When I decide to sell it, those, along with the pics I took of the game as it came off the truck should be enough to prove its provenance. Along with its mint condition due to low use. For whatever all of that is worth!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I've got an original AFM for sale for $2999.
You aren't buying on principle?
Nice try, but guys using these tactics are typically never selling for a deal.
My point is who gives a shit.
You don't buy a big mac because it costs $3.99 instead of $4?
You shouldn't let stuff like this get to you.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:My point is who gives a shit.
You don't buy a big mac because it costs $3.99 instead of $4?
You shouldn't let stuff like this get to you.
Point is, like WacArnolds, people who use these marketing tactics are often trying to pull one over on you. It's just not a good sign.
Prefer to buy from sellers who post lots of pics and let the condition do the talking, rather than those who drum up terms like NOB or are trying to make the listed price appear cheaper by reducing it by 1 cent.
NOB is the dumbest thing. There was nothing wrong with NIB, HUO, and Used. There's a reason to differentiate between used and only used in a home. Obviously new in box is needed. New out of box is ridiculous. It's out of the box and played, it's home use only now. I've seen listings with NOB used for a game that had over 200 plays. This is stupid.
Quoted from jar155:NOB is the dumbest thing. There was nothing wrong with NIB, HUO, and Used. There's a reason to differentiate between used and only used in a home. Obviously new in box is needed. New out of box is ridiculous. It's out of the box and played, it's home use only now. I've seen listings with NOB used for a game that had over 200 plays. This is stupid.
But what if it comes with a box with matching serial numbers in VG+ original condition? That isn't just HUO it's NOB and worth tens of dollars more than HUO. Of course a restored box lowers the value significantly over original.
Quoted from bigehrl:there's a very fine line between satire and mental instability. this thread is proof.
The lack of ability to identify satire is amazing.
Quoted from bigehrl:there's a very fine line between satire and mental instability. this thread is proof.
amen.
You have to be careful with box restorations, the practice is still relatively new and some amateurs are using Rustoleum to stencil the serial numbers instead of the original ink from the shipping yards. Also saving a few pennies with thinner ply cardboard will come back to haunt you in the long run. I know from experience 
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