(Topic ID: 187977)

Should i need special food grade flux?

By xchcui

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by xchcui
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    #1 6 years ago

    Hello.

    When i would like to braze or solder items that will
    be in contact with food/water,like utensils,i know that i should use a safe filler which is
    cadmium free,lead free,zinc free etc.like the Sn96/Ag4 silver-bearing soft solder.
    But what about the flux? is it matter which flux i will use? i mean,in the aspect of the
    food contact with the soldered joint,like toxic flux residues that may left on the joint or become parts of the joint.
    i don't mean in the aspect if the flux suitable to the temperature of the soldering
    or to how good it prevented oxides during the soldering.
    Since i didn't find any site that is mentioned any food safe flux,i wonder if this is not an issue,while cleaning the soldered joint after soldering
    is enough and i there isn't any special food safe flux?

    Thanks in advance.

    #2 6 years ago

    Not unless you are planning on licking your machine.

    For potable water plumbing, Oatey H20-95 is 100% lead free and standard 61 (health effects) certified.

    #3 6 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    ...Oatey H20-95 is 100% lead free and standard 61 (health effects) certified

    If i am not wrong,fluxes do not contain metals such as lead.It is like to declare that olive oil is cholesterol free.I know that the fluxes,sometimes,contain metal halides as an activators,but not lead.

    Quoted from wayout440:

    Not unless you are planning on licking your machine.

    I didn't understand exactly what you mean,since,I,actually refered,among other,to brazing items like utensils etc.that you,actually licking food from them.
    So,what are you saying?that there are toxic residues of the flux after soldering,that become part of the joint and you can't clean it?

    #4 6 years ago

    Hmmm, I would trust any answer posted here on a pinball forum.

    Good luck with your still!

    #5 6 years ago

    Weird place to ask, but since you did..stick with the recommendations used for drinking water lines. Simply put if it is safe to use for drinking water lines, it'll be good for any utensils etc since you will wash those before using them I hope.

    Here's a good guide:
    http://www.homedepot.com/c/flux_and_solder_HT_BG_TH

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from xchcui:

    If i am not wrong,fluxes do not contain metals such as lead.It is like to declare that olive oil is cholesterol free.I know that the fluxes,sometimes,contain metal halides as an activators,but not lead.

    You are correct, but there are also many different kinds of fluxes out there. Usually if you are purchasing flux at the same place that you are buying potable drinking water construction supplies then you will simply find safe enough flux by accident. I'm just advising to pay at least some attention to the label. To meet federal guidelines for a lead free label, the flux has to contain less than 0.25% lead. But beyond any potential health concerns, lead-free alloys melt at higher temperatures and don't spread as easily as leaded alloys, lead-free compatible fluxes tend to have higher activity and higher heat stability than traditional fluxes. This gives most users reason enough to make the switch to a newer flux that was designed specifically for lead-free construction.

    Quoted from xchcui:

    I didn't understand exactly what you mean,since,I,actually refered,among other,to brazing items like utensils etc.that you,actually licking food from them.
    So,what are you saying?that there are toxic residues of the flux after soldering,that become part of the joint and you can't clean it?

    Ah, well - you posted to a pinball web site, so it was supposed to be a comical reference to soldering electronics in pinball machines.

    #7 6 years ago

    I would like to clarify my question and focus on the main issue:
    When we solder or braze a filler to a joint of an item,the metals that the filler are made of,becomes part of the item.So it is important,in the aspect of health concern,to choose a filler that contains metal alloys that will be suitable for our application,such as lead free filler for potable water).
    But the flux does not become part of the item,does it?
    The residues after the soldering can be cleaned entirely,can't they?
    Is it possible that after the soldering/brazing,some ingredients(maybe toxic)of the flux will become chemically part of the item,which can't be removed?or all the flux residues and all its chemical byproducts on the item can be cleaned/washed?

    #8 6 years ago

    The key is you can't guarantee you get all of the normal flux removed, therefore use a flux for drinking water lines (safe by code) and you can rinse the part with water and be done. It is possible for some flux to get embedded in the solder, especially if its a poor joint.

    If the problem is you have already made a bunch of metal pieces using non safe flux, then up to you if you use them or not. I would think the risk would be low after washing. However, if your water pipes were put together using the wrong flux, the city would probably require them to be removed and redone.

    #9 6 years ago

    The joint should be smooth and polished as to not hold microbes that will promote bacteria growth. This is known as a sanitary weld or joint.

    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from Trekie:

    The joint should be smooth and polished as to not hold microbes that will promote bacteria growth. This is known as a sanitary weld or joint.

    Referring to food handling.

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from SilverballNut:

    The key is you can't guarantee you get all of the normal flux removed, therefore use a flux for drinking water lines (safe by code) and you can rinse the part with water and be done. It is possible for some flux to get embedded in the solder, especially if its a poor joint.

    If i use a flux for water pipes,i,definitely,will use safe flux and it is understandable why.There isn't any access to the inside of the pipe,in order to remove the flux,except
    of flushing water and if the flux is not safe and it doesn't dissolves in water,i can't guarantee to remove all the non safe flux(as you said),since i need a safe flux that can be rinsed by water.
    But if it is a utensil and i use a non safe flux,i can clean and rub it with hot water,dish soap and cloth,alcohol etc.In that case can't i remove,entirely,all of the flux byproducts and residues?or even in that situation,no matter how much i will clean and rub the utensil,some of the flux will chemically bond to the item and nothing can removed them?

    you said:

    Quoted from SilverballNut:

    It is possible for some flux to get embedded in the solder, especially if its a poor joint

    But i am not sure if your intention was to the water pipes or to any items.

    #12 6 years ago

    I think you are just overcomplicating the subject. If you just use a water soluble flux that is safe for potable water soldering you will be fine. Most of the impurities will burn off in the soldering process, and the most of the rest will flush away. Anything left will be inert.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    I think you are just overcomplicating the subject...

    Do i?
    I don't think so.
    If you will read carefully all of my posts,include the title of that thread,you will notice
    that i have repeated my question over and over again,but i didn't get an answer for my specific question.
    I know that plumber flux for potable water(standard 61)is probably the safe solution.
    But i didn't ask a recommendation for flux.
    I just would like to know:if i use a flux(any type of flux)which may contains toxic ingrediens,can it be cleaned entirely after soldering or some of the residue may become chemically part of the item/can not be removed ?
    That question is not refer to water pipes which don't have any access to clean them inside,it is refer to item like utensils that you can clean them directly.

    Quoted from wayout440:

    Most of the impurities will burn off in the soldering process, and the most of the rest will flush away. Anything left will be inert.

    Did you refer to any type of flux(flux that dissolved in water and flux that is not dissolved in water)or only to the plumber water-dissolved flux?

    This was my main question:

    Quoted from xchcui:

    ...But if it is a utensil and i use a non safe flux,i can clean and rub it with hot water,dish soap and cloth,alcohol etc.In that case can't i remove,entirely,all of the flux byproducts and residues?or even in that situation,no matter how much i will clean and rub the utensil,some of the flux will chemically bond to the item and nothing can removed them?

    #14 6 years ago

    You understand that this message board is all about pinball, right?
    The people here are not the best source for answering your question.
    But, if you are looking for opinions, anything that you will eat or drink from should be soldered with food grade flux only.

    #15 6 years ago

    Try asking the experts at the Ridgid plumbing forum.

    https://www.ridgidforum.com/

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    You understand that this message board is all about pinball, right?

    Yes,but only after"wayout440"explained to me its comment about the comical reference to soldering electronics in pinball machines.
    Besides that,i saw several threads with questions related to solder flux in that forum,so i though that there are experts here about this issue.
    I think that my question was clear enough,so what are you suggested?
    may someone has a knowledge to answer it or may i try other places,as wayout440 and RCA1 recommended?

    #17 6 years ago
    Quoted from xchcui:

    Besides that,i saw several threads with questions related to solder flux in that forum,so i though that there are experts here about this issue.

    Well, there are some experts here, at least a few in some form in the field of electronics. I myself have been in professional electronics all my life. There are others here as well. Most of us will be fairly knowledgeable about flux as it used with electronics. When you venture into the world of how flux is used in plumbing and for eating utensils, well, there's probably not quite that many with this specific knowledge on this pinball hobby site. I only have some limited knowledge of this from my brother-in-law, who does commercial plumbing and has helped me around my home. I think you'll get more of a discussion from visiting a site where there are simply more plumbers. When I looked at one, there was like 7 pages of thread discussion about water soluble flux, with all kinds of professional opinions.

    #18 6 years ago

    not sure why you are soldering food utensils
    i
    it seems a very weak way to make a join

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    not sure why you are soldering food utensils
    i
    it seems a very weak way to make a join

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    #20 6 years ago

    Ok.thanks alot for all the responses.
    I guess,i have to keep digging in order to find the answer.

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