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(Topic ID: 119331)

Shopping a Getaway HS2 - bulb issues


By Flake49

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 47 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Pinball_Nate
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

So as noted I'm currently shopping out a getaway I picked up a few weeks ago. Going through replacing all bulbs with LEDs and cleaning out the dust and whatnot. Anyway, I can do simple stuff like pull off playfield parts, clean, replace rubbers and reinstall.....but I'm not very good at testing electrical issues or solving mechanical issues. I have a two bulbs in which I cant tell why they are not working.

One is the Yellow light on the stoplight toy. I've replaced the bulb and reseated the connectors and everything seems like it should be working but its not.

The other is the redlight mania bulb over the supercharger entrance ramp. Again, I've replaced the bulb and all wiring (top side at least) appears to be in order.

Any hints on where to troubleshoot next?

Thanks

#2 5 years ago

Try All Lamp test in diagnostics. ?

#3 5 years ago

Both of those bulbs have twist in 555 sockets if I'm not mistaken. It has been my experience that sometimes these go bad. Try adjusting the prongs to make better contact or try inserting a known working one into the hole to check

#4 5 years ago

Those are both mpu controlled 555 twist style bulbs mounted on Printed circuit lamp boards. Sometimes the small metal "ears" don't make good contact on the solder pads when the socket is installed. Try putting a little pressure on the lamp socket to see if it is intermittent. You can also carefully (not too much force) pull the ears a little so they contact the solder pads better. Sometimes the sockets break inside and need to be replaced. Sometimes you can bend the leads on the bulbs outward a small so they fit tighter within the lamp socket. Make sure the wires are not broken or loose at the connectors. It could be cracked or cold solder on the header pins on the lamp board which can be reflowed with fresh solder.

#5 5 years ago

ok great....sounds like some good points to try out. Thanks guys

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Try All Lamp test in diagnostics. ?

I did try this. Sorry should of mentioned. Didn't light up in test mode but the Red and Green lights did.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Flake49:

I did try this. Sorry should of mentioned. Didn't light up in test mode but the Red and Green lights did.

Very good. Carry on with above suggestions.

#8 5 years ago

you can also test from the board, put the pin in test mode and compare the three with a DMM, connector (Red Light) J133-4 is red/orange wire, (Yellow Light) J133-5 is red/yellow wire, (Green Light) J133-6 is red/green wire...

#9 5 years ago

Did you try putting back in the regular bulbs? I assume the lights were working before you put in the leds. If the socket works, then try adjusting the metal contacts on the bulbs and on the twist socket. I had to fiddle with some of my bulbs when I did my Getaway.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Did you try putting back in the regular bulbs? I assume the lights were working before you put in the leds. If the socket works, then try adjusting the metal contacts on the bulbs and on the twist socket. I had to fiddle with some of my bulbs when I did my Getaway.

If this is the case sometime you have to move the leads on the LEDs themselves to make a solid contact.

#11 5 years ago

You said you're shopping the pin. Did you have to disconnect any connectors under the pf to remove parts that you forgot to reconnect?

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

If this is the case sometime you have to move the leads on the LEDs themselves to make a solid contact.

No they have not worked since I've had the pin

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

You said you're shopping the pin. Did you have to disconnect any connectors under the pf to remove parts that you forgot to reconnect?

No disconnections under the PF. Havent really gotten to that part yet. Only plan there is to replace insert lights to color match

#14 5 years ago

On circuit board twist sockets, reflow header pins and twist-in crescents at the socket. Those little black divots at the end of the silver crescent shouldn't be there.

Move the non-working socket to a working location. If it blinks, the socket and lamp are good.

I'm going with cracked header pins if the board has a connector.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

On circuit board twist sockets, reflow header pins and twist-in crescents at the socket. Those little black divots at the end of the silver crescent shouldn't be there.

Move the non-working socket to a working location. If it blinks, the socket and lamp are good.

I'm going with cracked header pins if the board has a connector.

Putting my money on ""reflow header pins", I just had to do that on my upper red, yellow, green targets...

#16 5 years ago

OK excuse the stupid question but aren't the connectors just crimped? What am I soldering?

Also I looked in the backbox and there are pins coming out at a j133 but there is nothing attached. Is this right? See pic

IMG_20150223_213119225.jpg
#17 5 years ago

No need to go to the driver board. The other lamps in those rows/columns are working so that's not the problem. Check the header pins on the little board that's inside of the stoplight itself. There's a small connector in there, as you've already seen. Remove that little board, and disconnect the connector. Then, reflow the solder on the back of the board to all the pins. Chances are, the one that's used in the yellow light has cracked and isn't making contact. Do the same for the supercharger lamp. I don't remember if this is directly connected to the lamp or if there's a small board as well, but check the solder on there too.

#18 5 years ago

ok thanks. Yea that makes sense. I actually got the red light mania light working by using one of the recommendations above to fudge with the socket connections.

I'm not the best at soldering so fingers crossed

#19 5 years ago

Place a little rosin solder flux on all the pins (back side of the board) before you reflow them. That will help reflow the solder. It does not take a lot of heat. Be careful and use a very small solder tip on your iron if you have one. I always clean and re-tin the end of my iron with fresh solder and some flux before soldering the pins. You should be fine. This is a must know skill for owners.

#20 5 years ago

ok sorry but I've put this off the last couple days to finish the cleaning and polishing. So all thats really left is to address these bulb issues. I say "issues" because I have at least 3 insert lights giving me the same trouble and they all connect to a board the same way with the sockets. I've ordered and used new sockets so that is not the issue either. I've uploaded some pics. This is the board from the spotlight. I guess i dont see anything that looks like it requires soldering. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

IMG_20150224_204257251.jpg IMG_20150224_204305153.jpg IMG_20150224_204314361.jpg IMG_20150224_205643692.jpg IMG_20150224_205647699.jpg
#21 5 years ago

I meant to say this is the board from the stoplight.

#22 5 years ago

Did you try wiggling the connector that attaches to it? Looks like cold solder joints

#23 5 years ago

you mean the 4 pin connector that slides over the pins? Yes i've messed with that to no avail.

What looks like cold solder joints? I guess that is my question. To me everything on the board appears to be in order. I'm no board/soldering expert though.....more like an uninformed noob.

#24 5 years ago

Well if you wiggled that specific connector with the pin on (carefully) and the lights didn't flicker on/off, then the solder joints are probably fine.

Try the board without the leds: Put incandescents back in a see if they light in those sockets.

Also try these two things:

1. bend the two little tabs on the socket up a bit so that it fits more snug on the board when screwed on. (this will improve connection from socket to board)

2. Those leds probably have little filiments on the outside of them. Carefully pull them out a bit. The goal here is to make a better contact with the socket. (this will improve connection from led to socket)

Keep diagnosis this. You'll figure it out. Just be careful when playing around underneath testing with the pin on. Remove any rings on your fingers or watches.

#25 5 years ago

I would reflow the solder on all those pins just to eliminate that question. Make sure the wires on the IDC connector are all tight and making good electrical contact with the pins. Sometimes the diodes on these boards short. In this case diode D2 is for the middle lamp. You can test the diode if you have a diode test function on your meter. You should read between 0.4 and 0.6 volts across the diode. You should check all three of them to see that you are getting about the same reading across each of them.

#26 5 years ago

Check the wires coming off the plug that goes to the lamp board going back in the cabinet.

My friend has a bunch of lights not working. And the stop light was out as well.
Turns out the wires were crushed under the playfield near the back.

Check both sides.

The wire for that and other lamps is real close to the side slide rails and can get crushed and broken from moving the playfield for service.

If all else looks good. I bet that the problem.

#27 5 years ago

Do any bulbs work - led or incandescent? Try ones that you verify work in another location. Try swapping twist sockets with ones that work to make sure it's not that either. If you know the bulb and twist socket are not at fault, then you work your way back. If you are doing that, I would start by making sure you are getting the right voltages to that board.

#28 5 years ago

if you zoom in to the connector, the joints look cold. I'd reflow anyway like someone said.

Reflow means to just heat up your iron and melt the solder on there to make the connection better. Just make sure not to fuse any of the pins together!

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from rkstarcher:

Putting my money on ""reflow header pins", I just had to do that on my upper red, yellow, green targets...

I had to do the same thing on mine when I got it, also had to reflow the header pins on the stoplight as well...

#30 5 years ago

If you swap the bulb in that board does anything change? If not I would test the diode on the light that doesn't light up is probably bad... Same with your other socket that isn't working do the same thing there. If you test the diodes and they are good then do voltage check on the at the pins then on the board where they socket makes it connections and if things the voltages are off, reflow the pins.

#31 5 years ago

Any updates?

Curious

#32 5 years ago

I've got more problems now. I started another thread here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-help-in-greater-stl-needed-on-getaway-hs2

So I haven't really addressed my initial issues because now that I have someone coming out who really knows WTF they are doing I decided to watch/learn from him in person. Was supposed to come over yesterday but we got hit with a bunch of snow so its been put off till this coming Sunday.

#33 5 years ago

At least this pin has cracked solder....

lamp board.jpg

#34 5 years ago

cool thanks cody.

#35 5 years ago

Also, using Cody's photo above, you see that dimple at 1-o'clock on the middle top ring? That's where the lamp socket makes contact. You can reflow that entire ring to get rid of the dimple and have a better mechanical connection. And sometimes I will pull the contacts on the lamp socket out a little more if the socket doesn't feel tight when it's twisted into position: more pressure = more scraping action = less oxide/gunk = better chance of a solid electrical connection.

I agree about reflowing all the connectors - that's something I'd do regardless. Also look for cracks in the PCB trace between the pads and the trace. And sometimes (this just happened on the backbox lights on my AFM) the wire will lift out of the IDC connector. It might not be visible, but it will lose electrical connection. Push it back in (ideally with an IDC tool but if you're skilled and/or lucky you may be able to do it with a screwdriver or needlenose pliers.

Long shot: I'm not sure anyone's mentioned it but aren't some (older design) LEDs polarity-sensitive? Try inserting the lamp assembly in both directions.

#36 5 years ago

I think the diode is out.....gonna try replacing it and see where it goes.

In other news I have tried twice now connecting one of those comet pinball LED strips.....and each time it has blown fuses in my GI. The first time I was not cognizant that they required +- matching but the second time I can with certainty that they were connected correctly. But like the first time I blew a fuse and now after I replaced the fuse my diverter is non functional.

In test mode I get messages saying check ramp switch and that all switches in the supercharger are out (optos 1, 2, and 3). Before I had tried installing the comet strip all switches were working perfectly. One fuse goes out and now my supercharge assembly is jacked.....ugh....

i've looked under the hood and under the charger for obvious wiring issues noting none. The board under the PF looks fine....I replaced the F103 fuse.....all to no avail.

I'm done trying to use these comet LED strips man just too much trouble. I'll be happy if I can just get this supercharger up and running again.

#37 5 years ago

Question.....if the ramp opto is out would that disable everything in the supercharger as a default setting? So basically it would turn off because it knows it cant detect the ball coming up the ramp any longer? i thought maybe I had read that somewhere.....

#38 5 years ago

That makes sense. If the ramp opto is out the diverter would never divert the ball to the supercharger, so even if the rest of the supercharger was working 100%, it would never operate during normal play.

I think the supercharger test mode would probably work, though - it should move the diverter and enable the SC regardless of whether or not the ramp opto is working.

Regarding replacing the diode in the other post - they are VERY easy to test, particularly when you can remove the board/disconnect the wiring as you have done. Just put a DMM into diode mode, and you should read 0.5V to 0.7V when the DMM test leads are in one direction, reverse the leads and you should get nothing. I'd do that before I went to the trouble of replacing the diode...

#39 5 years ago

When you look at the Supercharger in test mode do the Opto's show "closed" or "bad"? Are you able to enable them?

#40 5 years ago

they dont show bad.....I think its closed. No I cannot enable them. I can enable diverter "high" but not diverter "low"......dont even know what that means

#41 5 years ago

Actually the optos might say open. In SC test the solenoids are "disabled" I think

#42 5 years ago

Definitely need to confirm status, normal condition would be closed. What happens in switch edge test mode, basically break the beam between the opto's and see if the switch reacts. I'd check the one where the bad enters the ramp and all three opto's in the SC. The ramp and SC and controlled by two different boards, are they the only ones that are not functioning. Looking to see what the common factor could be. Both of those are fed from J-206-9 column 8 along with several others, if the others are working then Column 8 is not the problem, IMO.

Column 8.JPG
#43 5 years ago

I had my sc ramp opto go bad. It still played okay but balls were never diverted into sc. They would go up the ramp, loop around, and back down the left while giving out the right points. The game would throw different errors relating to the sc, diverter, and switches but it was only one bad opto.

There are 4 optos in the sc. In the switch test menu, you can test each one by breaking the beam of light with a ball or hand. You can test the diverter and sc magnets as well. I am not sure what is going on with your machine but try to pinpoint exact switches or parts are not working.

I also had some troubled with led strips and ended up frying a gi connector. I would leave those disconnected until you work out the other issues. The main thing is to turn off the machine when working under the play field.

1 week later
#44 5 years ago

Fuse F116 was bad. The SC is functional now. And yes the first multimeter I've ever owned I purchased just this week in response to this issue. I've never messed with electrical issues too much on games other than some soldering because I dont know WTF I'm doing and I've never had issues with fuses before.

Let the eyes roll

Stoplight still doesnt work for yellow but I havent addressed that since the SC went out.

4 weeks later
#45 5 years ago

Flake49 - hey did you ever get the light issues resolved? Have similar problems with my rehabbed Taxi so was looking for answers and came across this thread.

Open question, how do you reflow and not have solder "melt" into another soldered area? (ie: the base of the pins where each individual pin is so close to the next one)?

Thanks!

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Open question, how do you reflow and not have solder "melt" into another soldered area?

That's what the solder mask (green stuff) on a board is for. The solder will flow and "stick" to metal, but will "avoid" the mask.

#47 5 years ago

Herg - gotcha, thanks.

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