One challenge you will get here is every game is different. A simple single level game like a Bally Eight Ball is fairly straight forward to shop out. A game like BSD or ST:TNG, on the other hand, is a complex job, requiring many, many more hours, and more expenses.

I'd suggest finding a reliable technician in your area who you'd be likely to use, and when considering a game, ask the technician for an estimate.

Part of the fun is working on the machines and bringing them back from the dead. There is plenty of help around particularly through this site. You will be amazed how quickly you come up to speed and how satisfying it is!!

Shopping it? 60 bucks and a 40 hours of work.

Repair? Who knows. Every machine you buy you will miss glaring issues. Sometimes they are cheap, sometimes not. Educate yourself on the machines main issues to look out for. Hope you don't miss anything that might be expensive.

If you aren't willing to learn how to repair a machine, don't buy one.These things break, constantly. They are maintenance intensive and depending on where you live you may not even have access to a good tech.

you would be FAR better off finding a machine that is already shopped and repaired if you aren't going to even make an effort to do anything yourself...

you are asking a question that really doesn't have a specific answer, as "i'm sure there are other issues" means that there is a huge unknown that may (will) affect the price of repairs significantly... pf repair, for example, can be rather expensive, and in order to have it properly done, the pf needs to be stripped entirely, which means you'd have to pay someone to strip it and repopulate it for you(not cheap)...

and so on...

the idea of buying a beater and have someone fix it for you may be appealing at first, but will amost certainly cost you more in the long run than simply buying a clean and working machine...

This is going to be dependent more on your own knowledge of the mechanics of the game. For the inexperienced, a clean reliable working game from the start is a better investment because you mostly know what you are getting. The used machine that needs work is often full of unknown costs and repairs until a tech actually gets into it...hence, it becomes a greater risk.

However, If those unforeseen costs can be definitely nailed down and you can get the game for a great price it can be a better value. Don't forget that some DIY also goes a long way.

Option #1. Definitely.

Sorry, just woke up and read your most recent question. Spend more and get a nice clean working machine.

the former... just don't buy retail...

imo, you'd have to have a real good friend who is a "complete" pin tech and was willing to cut you a significant break to even consider the second option...

^^^^ Or they'd have to be a masochist.

That's the route I went for my first machine. I'm mechanical in nature, but didn't want to try and shop a machine right out of the box. Buy one that's in good shape and learn your way around first. You'll most likely run into small issues like burned out bulbs, blown fuses, broken wires, etc. Those small repairs will give you the chance to learn things you might not know, like soldering and reading a switch diagram. It also gives you a chance to get to know how things work and what part has what function.

When I bought my first one, I didn't even know how to take the glass off, let alone what anything did under the playfield. Now I have no problems diving in and trying to figure things out.

Start slow and go from there.

Depends on the price of the game you buy. Also depends on what it would cost to have someone shop it out, and that means doing it well. Some here have offered to shop out games for $300 plus parts. That's a steal, if you ask me.

Let us know your location. Someone near you might be able to help.

Honestly, for a fist pin, it's probably best to get one that's in good working order and you get slowly dip your toes in the water taking care of it. Learn how to change bulbs and rubbers first. Best to not start with a basket case. You may find yourself frustrated very quickly.

Good advice, remember it's meant to be FUN!

Welcome to Pinside

I definitely agree with this, though I fall on the inexperienced side of the spectrum. Shopping & cleaning itself is a time investment, but if you are like me, you'll find tons of things to replace, refine, rebuild once you start tearing games apart (for better or worse). For me, it's a "I've gone this far" mentality. This is where things can get expensive if you don't plan carefully and decide early on what kind of restoration, if any, you'd like to do.

Depends on what your goals are.

I personally love to fix pins. I get a ton of satisfaction in fixing an issue. With that comes anxiety though. For me, I need to fix it NOW. It's all I can think about.

I also love to play my games, but I enjoy the shopout/fix a bit more.

Most people are in two categories, with a grey area in between: those who love to fix/shop pins, and those who love to play. Some in the middle.

i get great satisfaction from "fixing something that doesn't work" as well... what i sometimes have to force myself to do is all the little crap... i'd rather have to go through an entire machine, fixing things along the way, than clean and wax pf's...

i live in the middle, definitely leaning towards "playing"...

true dat...

i know if someone wanted me to shop out a pin for them, it wouldn't be cheap... and i'm an em guy, so it's pretty basic for the most part...

Easiest thing to do is just buy one brand new in box. In the four years I've owned TRON I've only had the glass off twice - once to wipe it down and once to install the videogame mod.

I'm fine fixing my own games - resurrecting a Meteor right now - but there's certainly something nice about not having to fix a game all the time.

Some are easier than others, but once you get one half the fun is working on it the other half playing it and the other half people's expressions when they see these where you live! Wait, that's one and a half.....and that's how much you get out of owning these!

I've never spent just $60 shopping a machine. $30-$35 alone goes to the flippers. If your machine has more than one pair of flippers, that cost goes up.

Then there's new rubbers--about $20.

New bulbs--$20-$30 for incandescent, $200-$250 for LEDs, $15 for a new florescent in the backbox and $8-$12 for a new bulb starter (if the machine uses a florescent bulb)

New backglass or translite--$20-$350 (depends on game and if replacements are available)

Broken drop targets--$4-$8/ea

Broken plastics--$10-$30/ea used or $125-$250 for a new or NOS set (if available)

A replacement display--$40-$300 (varies wildly depending on if it's digit/alphanumeric/DMD and the number needing to replace)

Board repairs or replacements--$20-$350 per board.

Rebuilding any simple solenoid assemblies or pop bumpers--$5-$30 per assembly

Replacing a motor/gearbox--$50-$250

Speakers--$15-$80

New transformer board and/or power board capacitors--$10-$20

New locks--$2-$5/ea

The list goes on, depending on what the machine has and what is wrong with it.

I "think" he meant $60 an hour, but not really sure.

Edit - Never mind, I see what he was saying now, I was confused because the OP doesn't want to do the work himself.

All depends on the game and how far you want to take it. I usually end up spending $100s over a period of several months, but it isn't always like that. The bad Cats I shopped was like $60 in rubber & flipper parts & coil sleeves + 60hrs work.

i always "think" it's going to cost me less than it actually does... the curse of "hopeful thinking"...

i don't think i've ever spent less than 150 shopping out a machine... but i also change out all the posts, etc... all depends on the definition of "shopping"...

New backglass? Speakers? LEDS?

Seriously mate its all well and dandy you are going all out, but that is not *shopping* the machine. Shopping is cleaning, new rubber, new balls, not a restore. AS for bulbs I clean all mine and only replace the ones that are not working or burned. No sense in throwing away perfectly good parts. That is if I chose not to led.

as noted in the post before yours...

it depends on your definition of "shopping"... i wouldn't consider simply cleaning the pf and replacing the rubbers to be "shopping" a machine... i also wouldn't consider forceflow's list to be complete when "restoring" a machine, because he didn't include the hundreds of hours spent cleaning/polishing/etc. that is required to truly "restore" a machine (not that he implied the list was a complete "restoration" list)... simply swapping out parts ISN'T "restoring"...

but that's an old old old discussion that we've never been able to come to a conclusion on...

It all depends on what time, money, and effort you intend put into the machine and what's wrong with it.. Sometimes you simply have to replace the backglass because it's half gone, or the speakers because they're blown.

Heck, some people consider "shopping" to be just a quick wipe-down with a rag. Other people consider it to be replacing everything that's broken or damaged, shy of touching up any artwork.

I'm going to suggest you get a working, late 70s Solid State pin as your first.

Get something cheap and common, like a Flash, Space Invaders, Firepower.....

Plenty of things will go wrong with it in the first year of ownership, but with no ramps, diverters, optos or motors - the fixes will be relativity painless.

Then once you have had your cherry popped, you can take the next step into a more complicated machine (should you still want to).

OP, the bottom line to your question is just buy a new machine or from a very trusted Pinsider like NJGecko or eaBundy that is WELL known here for doing quality work.

Things will break, yes, it is inevitable. But when things break, typically the repair is not astrophysics. It is decently rare that anything goes bad behind the translite (especially with LEDs installed and the temperatures go down a good 20-30 degrees Farenheit). If a coil sleeve needs to be replaced to make the coil more powerful or responsive, a switch needs adjusting so the ball properly triggers it when rolling over, a bulb burns out - those things aren't too bad.

Bumping up a bit in difficulty, if a coil shorts out (read: constantly on and is blowing a fuse), a light needs to be re-wired because changing the bulb didn't fix it, an opto needs to be tested to verify it works, any soldering job where you are taking out bad, broken components and replacing with nice new working components, or a ramp needs to be flame-polished because the plastic is starting to get loudy or show "ball streaks" or you need to take things off the playfield to get a THOROUGH cleaning done - yeah, these things suck - but they're not impossible. They will happen, but traditionally, they aren't going to "just happen" the very first week you own the game.

Bumping up a lil' bit more, you start smelling electrical burning somewhere. You open up and wires are starting to burn, electrical connectors are "getting crispy" and you have to re-pin an IDC connector, or a transistor is shorted and needs to be replaced, or a UXX (where XX = some number) chip burns out and needs to be replaced - basically anything in the backbox - yeah - it may happen, but the chances are decently rare, especially if the temperatures are down, and your game is properly taken care of.

All out "oh hell...." difficulty is doing something like re-applying cabinet decals, removing and stripping a PF to be re-clearcoated or 20+ year mylar pulled, or swapping cabinets entirely. Life will probably suck then because you have to pretty much fully gut a machine to apply new decals or swap cabinets. Will you see that level of difficulty? Only if you want to at that point.

So, do what is best for you. I've been doing this for 3 years this March, and while I by FAR do not know everything, there is a learning curve, and I am happy with where I am in this hobby. Believe me, if I have a chance to fix things in this hobby, ANYONE can do it if they apply themselves. This community is AWESOME, and it is definitely not who you are but who you know. The more you network and get to know people (read: going to pinball get togethers and meeting people face to face), the more you empower yourself to learn and help others. This is NOT a hobby you can succeed in alone.

A friendly word of advice: make sure you know how to solder and use a DMM. Trying to own a pinball machine without either skillset is like watching a snake try to work in a kitchen.

Good luck!!

go to a pinball show in your area.

play it first. buy it if you like it.