As much as this may seem hard to believe.. you can *tumble* bulbs! Makes the bases nice and shiny on bayonnet bulbs, and cleans oxidation/corrosion off of them for a nice clean connection.

I have 3 or 4 gallon ziplock bags full of 'left over' used bulbs from previous restorations. I do all new bulbs when I restore a game. Kris from Firebird Pinball recently pointed out to me that the original GE bulbs last a lot longer than the current offerings from China. Perhaps I'll shine up a bunch of originals for an upcoming project

That is pretty cool, but new bulbs are so cheap and probably more likely to last longer, right? I mean, if gonna do all that work to shop mine as well spend the extra few bucks on new bulbs. Time saver too

There's a big difference in quality with the bulbs being sold today (Eiko, Pinball Life) and the bulbs that came stock in older games (GE, Westinghouse). I usually pull them all out, replace with new bulbs, and then use the better looking older bulbs in spots I'd like to be brighter without using LEDs.

I do this as well. It works great and makes the bulbs look like new. I then test and toss any suspect ones

--Jeff

Even though I'm LED'ing (tastefully) mine, I've been pulling out and cleaning all the old bulbs and keeping the good GE ones that aren't mirrored/darkened while tossing all of the Eiko, CEC, Italy and similar junk into a ziplock for potential future use by someone that doesn't care.

For new ones, the Ablaze ones from PBL (pack of 100 for $7.50) is a REALLY good deal. I got one box each of 44, 47 and 555 and they actually are a good step above an Eiko or CEC brand. (I'll never by Eiko or CEC again unless I can't find it in another brand). The glass is smooth--no strange crystal facets making strange light patterns everywhere, and they've held up well in the few places I've not converted; even with multiple inserts/removals; unlike the really horrible "Italy" marked ones I've found in both of my Williams games that break the filament setting it down after taking out

I built a tester out of an old bayonet and wedge base and attached it to an old wall wart that puts out around 6V @ 300 ma. Quicker than resistance testing.

I've been meaning to do this, but haven't found the time. I'd like it in order to be able to test the colors of LED bulbs without having to install them in a machine first. Does anyone make something that I could just buy? A couple of each socket type would be nice for comparisons.

So I didn't realize people keep these bulbs. I will save mine and ship them off to someone free if they pay shipping. I throw them all away and would normally have like hundreds, maybe in the thousands.

Hmmm... tumbling you say? I wonder how they would do in a vibratory case cleaner like ammunition reloaders use. I've got a baggie of blubs I'll experiment with in the name of science.

Run a couple of alligator clips to a lamp socket on a coin door. Takes 2 seconds.

I prefer not to accidentally short something out / deal with fuse replacement by messing with the pin power and/or sockets while it's on; and I'm not cycling the pin power multiple times to test many lamps.

I've used alligator clips with a 6V wall wart, but that only works for one bulb at a time, and the clips are not as convenient as sockets would be. I'll build it myself if I have to, but thought someone may already offer something.

Buy an empty socket to create your test rig... http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=63&pg=1

Just use a 9V battery.... that simple.

I do it all the time. It's not hard to avoid shorting the thing. This method is also a nearly irreplaceable quick way of testing to see if a dead lamp is a problem with the matrix, the bulb, or a crappy socket. Anyone who has ever had to swap out 75 sockets on a Bally does this.

When I do it I clip a new socket into the circuit and swap bulbs in and out of that.

I screwed a bayonet and a wedge socket to the side of a 4 AA battery holder. Used to test them while watching TV. Now I just leave the bulbs in a clean bin and sort them as I install them into a game.

I just bought a 4 Battery Holder from radio shack. Put alligator clips on the ends of the wires already provided and clip on to either 555 or 44 socket. I actually have 2 setup on my workbench since i test so often. One for 555 and one for 44. Just plug i bulb and test super quick. 4 AA batteries are 6volts

EDIT:

yes what he said, missed his post

I agree. There's maybe $7 worth of bulbs there and who's to say the ones that look good aren't going to burn out in a couple days.

I had about 3 gallons worth of used bulbs from shopping machines. I always replaced all the bulbs when shopping a game without thinking about it. There are some uses for old bulbs , just not in my games. Cleaning is good in a pinch or if you want to save a few bucks.

There is a some truth to the quality of the "old" manufactured bulbs. Some of the games I have worked on had the brass base GE bulbs that still worked and looked new while some other brands looked burned and total junk.

Problem is I've had newer bulbs burn out way faster than some of the old ones.

I wish I had all the old silver base 44's I tossed. Some of them seemed to go on forever.

I would get rid of silvered ones or wedge ones where the wires are burned.

Todd Andersen helped me a few years ago before an event. We put over 200 new bulbs in all the games. Most didn't last the two days of the party. Not just the cost, what a waste of time.

Now I keep my eyes peeled for bulbs made to military spec. They last a heck of a lot longer than anything else I've tried.

LTG : )

I wonder if it's like the old Edison bulbs that burn for 30 years because they used those enormous filaments.

Interesting that old bulbs last longer.

I do fix up a lot of games from the early 80s. I have found the bulbs labeled "GE" are typically in good shape and still working compared to others.

When i get a new old game to fix up i will remove all bulbs from the game and give them to my dad to tumble them. Once tumbled i check visually check for bad bulbs. I consider a bad bulb to be burned out (duh) or like the ones on the bottom left of viper's pic. Maybe i have good eyesight, but i can look at the filament of a bulb and tell 90% of the time if it is bad.

I save all the bulbs that look good from project games and re-use them in inserts, spotlights, and above playfield lights. Believe it or not over half of GI lamps from neglected games that have been sitting for years have been salvageable. Salvageable meaning no darkening or loose sockets. We have so many #44s now it's crazy, and a couple more boxes of new ones on top of those.

What media do you use to tumble them?

My grandma saved wrapping paper....

Attention restorers, techs, shoppers, and flippers: I would like to hereby announce that I will gladly take the donations of your old bulbs(preferably your old GE's) for use in my machines.

In all seriousness, I still love the look and feel of the incandescents in my TZ and TAF. I don't think I'm emotionally ready for a pimped out pin, yet. Once LED technology gets to the point where they're almost indistinguishable from filament bulbs, then I'll jump in whole hog. But until that day, only a couple fun locations will get LED's. I don't have anything against LED's or those that use them, they're just not for me.

As for my bulbs, I'll usually "attack" a region of the playfield at a time and completely disassemble it, top and bottom, and clean EVERYTHING with whatever is best for the medium(Novus, 92% RA, Windex, water, etc.). I typically clean the bulbs last and use a terry cloth towel wetted with the 92% rubbing alcohol. I just grab the bulb by the base and twist and turn and roll it around in the towel until I hear the squeaking, hold it up to the light to check for clarity, and move onto the next one.

That's the logic I don't understand. If they are indistinguishable, what's the point of using them, might as well use good old incandescents that are also inexpensive. In limited home use, they aren't going to save any energy, and won't save any wear/tear on the game.

I had a pin party a couple weekends ago with 8 machines (one was an EM) on one 15A circuit. 5 of these have all LEDs in the inserts, one is half way, and the other two are all incandescent. This was the first time all of them had been flipping at the same time, and I was pleased to have no issues with the breaker tripping. I'm pretty sure this would not have been possible with all incandescent.

Haha, problem is, when someone starts offering it, they usually want more than I want to pay, so I end up making it anyway.

Longevity, less heat, less power, easier on driving circuits, etc.

If the difference between flipping your breaker and not flipping your breaker is some little bulbs then you really need to reassess your circuit load. 80% of total capacity is the guideline. Breakers are not foolproof and can be physically restricted by stuff like corrosion and rodents.

I stand by my opinion that any savings on energy would take more than an average lifespan to achieve.

Now, if you were operating and the game was on 24x7, I can see where you might see some benefit.

In the amount of time games are on in home use, energy and heat are not a concern.

You've been really helpful during this thread.

Converting a machine to full LED cuts the power consumption in half. Converting the GI I imagine reduces consumption by 30%, possibly up to 40%.

Well, I also like them in hard-to-get-to places, but I like the bulb look (so trying to answer 'why use LEDs if they look the same as a bulb'). The *hope* is that the LED will not need to be replaced again. I know they're not infallible, but so far, I haven't had any of those hard-to-get-to ones fail.

So you save about 7.25/month for an entire month of 1 pin. Running nonstop.

$87 a year for one pin

$220 for the LED Kit from cointaker

So, you'd have to run the *entire game* 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year for over 2 years, just to break even.

That's the same kind of logic where someone goes out and drops 30k on a new car, because it gets 5 miles per gallon more than their old car, which was paid for!

Don't get me wrong, if you like the way LEDs look, do it for that reason. But don't tout some energy savings that you won't ever realize.

Switching to LED's I doubt you will see any savings on your electric bill but the GI plug and wiring will thank you.The old debate on #44 vs #47 bulbs to reduce heat or the conversion on the TZ clock are perfect applications for LED's. I use them for hard to reach / replace areas but not a fan of the entire machine running LED's.

More importantly you lessen the load on the boards significantly

Boards that were operated commercially how many hours a day? By the time I fire up a game in my lineup, any suspect connectors and components have been serviced and replaced as necessary.

I'm not a fan of LEDs in any of my games. That said, I do run them in my pop bumpers as they tend to burn out quicker and sometimes changing those lamps require the removal of ramps, etc., to change.

Ok back on topic. Whenever I do a shop on a game I replace every lamp on and under the playfield with new lamps. Sure, about 5 days later there might be 1 or two burned out which I change. #44 and #555 lamps from PBL in the 100 count box are only like $8 and that's more than enough to do most playfields and it's cheap to boot.

I take all the old lamps from the game and separate them into piles of 'look good' and 'don't look good' (blackened, broken, etc.). I then use the 'look good' in the backbox. If I put one in and it doesn't work...in the trash it goes. If I put one in and it's super bright...in the trash it goes. The lights in the backbox are easy to get to and if one goes out, it's not so noticeable.

I still end up with a bunch of old lamps that are still good that I'll never use...

Pop Bumpers are a different issue. They aren't burning out. They are getting knocked out. LEDs will solve that but for a different reason.

+1, same here...I only like them in a few places...

Connectors, non removable GI sockets, 24/7 route games, enough said.

Oh John, please don't bring NUMBERS into this! LOL

does anyone know why the mirroring happens? I assume the darkening (black) is due to contaminates and carbon buildup?

The light output is surely decreased if mirrored/blackened but would the temperature also increase? If so that could lead to warped inserts or yellowed/warped plastics and translites.

From the sounds of it you operate a lot of pins and are familiar with how often games from the 90s break down. Still, even if you have them fixed why not prevent future problems on old components?

Carbon buildup from molecules/electrons flying off the filament. This in turn traps heat inside the bulb, further deteriorating the filament until it burns out. It's really quite amazing what a tiny piece of tungsten can do to a bulb.

Well, the main reason I would make the switch to LED's, once they're indistinguishable from incandescents, is because of places on my pins that are stupid to get to and most of the new crap bulbs don't last but a few weeks and they're out again. Case in point: the uppermost pop bumper that's UNDER the ramp on TAF. I would gladly pay the 39¢ to never have to change that bulb out again. Wouldn't you?

For me, it's never been about cost savings. It's about time savings. If someone could quantify it to the point where they figured out that an Eiko bulb in a machine that's on for two hours per day lasts 4 months vs. a domed retro warm white LED(closest look to filaments right now) will last 5 years with the same amount of "on" time per day, imagine how much time and peace of mind you'll gain from not having to change it out 15 times over that span. By the third time I change out that pop bumper bulb under the ramp, I'll be replacing it with an LED. I won't care how it looks.

It seems like every other week, on either my TAF or my TZ, I'm replacing some sort of bulb: insert, GI, or otherwise. My machines see as little as 1/2 hour up to three hours of "on" time per day, too. These new bulbs are just plain junk. I've only got two games and all it seems I ever do is replace bulbs! But again, I'm not taking that plunge until LED technology closes the gap to where it's almost nonexistent.

And I'm sorry, but science is science, resistance is still resistance, and heat is still destructive, lifts inserts(or melts them!), and bubbles mylar. Just because boards have performed well for the last twenty years, doesn't mean they'll perform well for the next twenty. The heat cycling still works the boards and they will eventually fail. Metal that gets worked will fail in time. It's an eventuality, not a probability. Whatever I can do to prolong that, I will. They're only original once. Besides, I don't need any more burned GI connectors.

Don't get me wrong, my first love is incandescents since they were original to machines and to date, no LED can replicate the look/feel of that nostalgia that takes you back to when these things were new. Furthermore, it's a monumental task to get LED's to act as their incandescent counterparts do. That's why we have guys like Herg who make things that force them to "behave" more like a normal bulb. But even he still uses incandescents in his TZ for the same reason I do: LED's just don't look right in it. So for now, it's not really an issue. When LED's get there, I'll address it then.....

What we need is something like this with some sort of fluorescent phosphor coating for light persistence:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/162844130/alva-the-lightbulb-lamp