(Topic ID: 279833)

shoot a line

By the9gman

2 years ago

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  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by the9gman
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#1 2 years ago

does anyone have a simplified schematic for shoot a line ...the one I got off the web is terrible guess they did things different back then
most EM's I have worked on were easy compared to this thing ....look for relay D and find all the contacts labeled D ..no problem
this thing has a relay name but its not easy to figure out what contacts go to what

the machine has quite a few hacks and I need to get rid of them and make it right
card 1 doesn't score card 2 3 and 4 seem to score properly ...card 5 locks up the machine and card 6 does this on a few pay outs
the anti cheat relay is destroyed missing contacts

#2 2 years ago

The main difference is the relay coils, motors, etc. are named on the schem instead of using the chart with mapping to letter codes, and the switches have the same name (sorta mostly).

lotsa switches on cams, but those are equiv to the score motor switches.

all the EM bingo/pinball schems are "ladder logic" style. Logical circuits drawn between the power rails supplied by the transformer.

the manual has more details also .. way more useful info than a gottlieb score motor chart

#3 2 years ago

we used to have a saying in the National Guard.....You ain't a technician until you have fixed an ADF receiver ( automatic direction finder which was tubes and designed in 1938 ) eventually it was upgraded to solid state. Well I've been figuring out that .....You ain't an EM pinball tech until you have fixed a bingo machine !!! Holy shit the indexer relays are hard to get right. Got all six cards selecting and paying out right with one exception. the damn yellow payout line on all 6 cards. I can see the relay chattering when its working on the score so its not the relay but there has got to be something in common with all six cards ? Any ideas would be appreciated

#4 2 years ago

So just some thoughts (baldtwit feel free to correct)

1) If you are scoring properly in every other row, then the search disc alignment is likely perfect on 1-3 and 4-6.

2) Have you tried with 3/4/5 balls in a yellow row to see if behavior changes?

3) You mention the relay chatters for yellow line - does it hold?

Also you are correct, those search index adjustments are very very fine indeed and extremely difficult to do properly. Another fun set of switches are the x2 and x16 relays on this game. Those are involved with the higher payouts.

I would first suspect that they yellow relay needs adjustment, but having it happen for all cards is a bit odd.

Next, I'd look and see if x2 and x16 are pulling when they are supposed to. I'd take a good hard look at switch 16G in the manual (NC on x2) as it shuts off power to the x16 relay.

Great work so far!

#5 2 years ago

frustrated and back to square one .....decided to take a look at the x2 and x16 coils and switches thought I had them aligned perfectly and reinstalled them and then everything went backwards , no payouts or odd payouts sometimes ....this machine had many hacks and just wondering if something was done that I'm missing. got it back to a point where I was getting pay outs on 4 5 and 6 but not 123 so I'll take a day off and hit it again on Saturday

#6 2 years ago

for payout issues, I kinda divide things into two issues:
1] powering the appropriate search index coil to stop the search wipers
2] replay cams releasing and payout completing

if you are getting inconsistent behavior, one way to make life easier is to get the CU motor turned off so you can manually spin the search wipers around to the location that should detect the win and see if the search index coil powers - see manual pages 12-15 to figure out where the wipers need to be to detect any win you set up.

on shoot-a-line - assuming it's the real shoot-a-line with 28 hole playfield and not a glass stuck into one of the other 6-card games - you can shut the motor off by manually stepping the timer unit all the way up. Since you want to spin search wipers tho, you'll need to stick paper or tape between switch contacts in the CU motor circuit - depending on what you are doing, you have to disable the 1-2-3 search cam, 4-5-6 search cam, x2 score index and/or x16 score index switches to prevent the motor from starting when those switches close.

if you are careful with jumpers or add a some kind of switch, you could just unsolder a wire from the CU motor and connect/disconnect it whenever you want.

make sense?

#7 2 years ago

makes sense and that will help ....it is a real shoot a line but hacked up ....the timer unit has been disconnected ....the coin unit in lower cab is totally disconnected ..the anti cheat relay totally bodged up. Pay out is totally inconsistent. so I have decided to work one issue at a time .....first issue is I can not select card 6 unless i step it manually so there may be something mis wired there ...from the schematic its supposed to open after the six card is selected but it goes to five and stops ...once I get that I will go for card one payouts I also figured that I might have gapped the X2 and X16 switches to far apart so going to try and set them tighter seeing as there is less then 1/8" where the lock falls into the cam to where its riding on the outside of the cam

#8 2 years ago

the open-at-top switch on the selection feature unit is on the ratchet side of the unit. Switch pokes out over the white ratchet and a pin opens the switch at the top stop.

usual hack is to misadjust the switch so it opens 1+ steps too early, tho it's odd they would want to disable card 6, so maybe just an adjust error someone made.

the coin unit is irrelevant. It just controlled where the inserted coins went - either the main cash box or the side cash box. The idea was the location would have the key to the side box so they could recycle coins. The coin unit was adjustable to deflect anything from 1/2 to 1/6 of the coins using a jumper.

I think the only thing the timer unit did on that game was turn off the CU motor at the top step. Since pushing the R button caused the 1-2-3 search cam switch to close and turn the motor on, turning off the motor sooner reduces wear-n-tear and noise.

watch out for the "made only when energized" score index switches 15A and 16A. When the index arm riding on the cam edge, those must be open or the payout will round up to a multiple of X, where X is probably 16 on that game. The switches should only be closed when the index coil is powered and the index arm is lifted off the cam edge. If the switches never close, you'll tend to burn pits in the traces on the score counters.

if ya want to email lots of highest possible resolution pictures of the game internals to [email protected], that'd be great. The pics I have are too low a res to see a lot of details. Entire back door, entire inside of head and closer shots of whatever ya like are useful, especially when zooming in lets ya read labels and see wire colors.

2 weeks later
#9 2 years ago

don't know exactly what I did but got payouts again , readjusted the X2 and X16 relays and search payout coils ...had a bunch of bare wires on the 123 search disc ...insulated them and removed any possible shorts. Adjusted the switch on the card selection switch and can no get 6 cards however cards 1 thru 5 seem to pay out correctly but 6 does not so there may still be some problems with the 456 search disk. figured out the hacks two wires were added to the R switch to bypass the trough switches another 2 wires were added to activate the score reset. cleaned a lot of the nicotine off the play field with magic eraser and alcohol then clear coated ....took some artistic liberty and repainted the cabinet and head will add some pics later

#10 2 years ago

so they definitely did things different back then , when troubleshooting all the lamps found three four different style bulbs. Lesson learned use only #47 bulbs on the cards with the exception of #26 and #28 those have to be 20v bulbs . plus the card selection bulbs have to be 20v. found some #44 s installed in the cards and that's where the problems were because of the different current draw two lights bright and one dim .....the dim one was the 44 . the lamp sockets on this thing suck the outer jacket is fine but the center pin is a poor design plus it looks like it gets hot over time and digs into the bottom of the bulb anyway still making progress .... Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people that still want these machines so I took the artistic liberty to make this a one of a kind .....Backglass in this photo is the original and I have a different replacement that will go in when I'm finished

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#11 2 years ago

How did you find a replacement ? I would think that would be very difficult to find; although I found one several years ago and framed it for wall art.

#12 2 years ago

The original machine sat in a shed for 10 years and rusted but the back glass was an excellent one of a kind repro with a name no one had heard of .....I got lucky and found this donor machine on facebook about three hours from me but it looked like crap didn't score and the motor was running so it had some potential ....in the end a combination of both machines

#13 2 years ago

This is the backglass I bought. The yellow paint at the bottom was an issue, but I liked the bowling theme , so I bought it anyway.

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#14 2 years ago

pretty sure that's the original back glass that came with the game

#15 2 years ago

you learn something new everyday. I was doing some final testing and everything was working then all of a sudden no bingo lights ....troubleshooting the tilt relay found a bad set of contacts ....if I shorted the leaf part of the contact I could get lights but if I went to the contact points, nothing , no continuity between the pad and the leaf.......never seen anything like this ....I ended up robbing a good set of contacts from the other machine. I can't imagine what it would have been like to be a technician on the road keeping these things running back in the day. Probably didn't get paid shit , Bar owner probably breathing down your back to get his moneymaker back and everything is cramped and tight in these machines they are a pain in the ass to fix anything ....would definitely drive me to find another job

#16 2 years ago

" Bingo Butch" and mike would know.
Nick did an interview with Butch; if you could find that interview, I think you might enjoy it.
*** Its Episode #407.

#17 2 years ago

definitely interesting sounds like a friend of mine in the national guard ....he came back from active duty and got a job with an operator and eventually branched out on his own. We used to hang out in his shop after guard drill and drink beer and play the games that he was fixing. I always marveled at the amount of buckets of quarters he had laying around his place.

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