(Topic ID: 38052)

Shipping a pin.... Legs On or Off?

By Concretehardt

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 67 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Wolfanoz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“Shipping Legs on or Palletize”

  • Ship with legs on 32 votes
    41%
  • Ship on Pallet 46 votes
    59%

(78 votes)

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There are 67 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 11 years ago

I am buying a Pin from a seller on the East coast.
The seller was nice enough to offer to Palletize the machine before shipping.
I have never recieved a pin on a pallet, all the machines i have had shipped had legs on.
What is the best way to go? legs on or palletize?
NAVL will be shipping the machine

Either way any pointers on things that can be done to prep for shipping to prevent damage would be appriciated.

The Game is MM and its pretty nice!

#2 11 years ago

Shipping with legs off on a pallet is safer for the machine for many reasons as long as it's secured to the pallet correctly.

#3 11 years ago

Nice find! I've gotten all of my games (except space invaders) with legs off. That seems to be the best way. The only thing I once heard is that if you ship with legs on they have to carry the game instead of forklift so less chance of getting damaged that way....

#4 11 years ago

If your shipping NaVL which is STI now they usually ship with the legs on. If hes gonna put on a pallet theyre are cheaper options.

#5 11 years ago

Id go with the pallet method, nice thick piece of wood on top of the pallet and banded to the pin, shrink wrapped, layer of cardboard all the way around EVERYTHING, and then another massive layer of shrink wrap, good to go!

#6 11 years ago

The biggest risk with shipping with legs on is the chance that a lazy employee will just slide the forklift forks under the machine. If they don't do it right, it can topple or they can put a fork right into the side of the machine. They're far more used to aiming for the openings on a pallet than the bottom of a cabinet.

Not only that, they're more likely to stack things on top of a pinball machine with legs on than they are a machine on a pallet.

I just wouldn't want to have a game shipped with the legs on unless it was unavoidable. I've had legs come all bent out of shape and even had one leg twisted off.

#7 11 years ago

In the last two years I've shipped hundreds of pins via NAVL with legs on and only 3 arrived with significant damage.

Before that I used to ship on a pallet via LTL freight (Forward Air, Kitty Hawk, US Express, Yellow, Old Dominion, Overnight, FedEx Freight, R+L Carriers...). So many damage claims, and most were total losses from a forklift going through the machine. The last 4 that I more recently shipped that way (usually at re-seller's request to save a couple hundred bucks on a $5000 machine) were significantly damaged.

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from ReplayRyan:

In the last two years I've shipped hundreds of pins via NAVL with legs on and only 3 arrived with significant damage.
Before that I used to ship on a pallet. So many damage claims, and most were total losses from a forklift going through the machine. The last 4 that I more recently shipped that way (usually at re-seller's request to save a couple hundred bucks) were significantly damaged.

I've had the exact opposite experience, shipping equal amounts of pins. The vast majority I've done have been on pallets. Only one damage claim. The small handful of machines that went legs on almost all had issues, usually bent up legs, but often more serious stuff.

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I just wouldn't want to have a game shipped with the legs on unless it was unavoidable. I've had legs come all bent out of shape and even had one leg twisted off.

A new set of legs is less than $100. Much more to repair a cabinet (if possible) that has a forklift scrape or penetrate a cabinet. And cardboard won't do crap against a forklift.

9 times out of 10 when NAVL/STI uses a forklift on a machine with legs on, head folded down, they use forklift "socks" to protect it.

#10 11 years ago

Really it comes down to quality of carrier. A good carrier can handle a machine either way without problems. A crappy carrier will screw up even the most ideal situation.

For shipping a MM, I'd make sure it was fully insured and that the insurance was FULL COVERAGE, not some crappy $0.30 per pound type of deal. Shipping is always a risk.

#11 11 years ago

with NAVL legs on with leg protectors and make sure the leg bolts are nice and tight... very safe!

#12 11 years ago

For a MM, I'd prefer a crate on a pallet, but few sellers will do that. It really is the safest way though.

#13 11 years ago

NAVL is a moving company and not a shipping company. Ship with the legs on when using NAVL.
If he will pallet then you could have better shipping options.

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from pinballlooking:

NAVL is a moving company and nat a shipping company. Ship with the legs on when using NAVL.
If he will pallet then you could have better shipping options.

This is true. NAVL will contract with local movers for pickup and final delivery with a shipper in between. It swaps hands 3 times, which means you should do it the most simple way possible.

If it's going to be palleted, there are more experienced movers that handle them as freight, and they can transport more quickly and for less money.

#15 11 years ago

Legs on. If they get damaged, its $15. If a forklift operator cranes your game, sorry Charlie.

#16 11 years ago

Zero difference from a claims standpoint according to Michelle at STI/NAVL.

No price difference between the two shipping options at STI/NAVL either...thus supporting her claim.

Therefore, all it really boils down to is whether any step along the way, if you game will be handled by a Ham-Fisted F***tard or not.

#17 11 years ago

Crap I forgot about the "f@#ktard" factor
Now I am even more stressed

#18 11 years ago

ON!!! FFS, people! Leave the pin UNTOUCHED. Let the shippers document the condition and take photos. Then, they can't blame damage on improper packing. If they can't see it on pickup, they wont pay the claim.

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from ReplayRyan:

Before that I used to ship on a pallet. So many damage claims, and most were total losses from a forklift going through the machine. The last 4 that I more recently shipped that way (usually at re-seller's request to save a couple hundred bucks) were significantly damaged.

Is that what they mean by "white glove treatment"?

#20 11 years ago

I received two pins with the legs on recently and had no problems. I also receive one with the legs off, and no problems. I have had nothing but good experiences with STI in 3 transactions. Knock on wood. As long as it is not a forklift blade knocking on the wood of one of my new pinball cabinets.

#21 11 years ago

When I shipped my last game with legs on
Navl showed up and triple blanketed the game, shrink wrapped it and then ratchet strapped
It to the side of the truck. Seems the main danger would be if the blankets pulled up and the side of the game Made contact with the side of the truck or if a forklift got into it.

#22 11 years ago

Just got one legs on from precision shipping looks well done here with legs on

image.jpgimage.jpg image.jpgimage.jpg

#23 11 years ago

If you choose to ship legs on, ask if the game has cabinet protectors on it for the legs. If not, ask the seller if he would be willing to install a set you would send him before the game is picked up. Also, ask him to check the leg bolts to see if any of the mounting plates inside the cabinet are stripped. If so, ask him to installed a nut on those bolts to tighten them down.

Dan

#24 11 years ago

Good idea Dan just in case it goes with legs on I ordered a set of pincab
Protectors from Surf and am having them shipped directly to the seller.

Dawson I'm not familiar with precision looks like they did a good wrap job
Any one else here use them? How do they compare with NAVL?

#25 11 years ago

Whats Michelles number again?

#26 11 years ago

630 352 3312

Dan

#27 11 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

ON!!! FFS, people! Leave the pin UNTOUCHED. Let the shippers document the condition and take photos. Then, they can't blame damage on improper packing. If they can't see it on pickup, they wont pay the claim.

This is important advice. Even with movers shipping household goods you pack and tape a box up they will mark it owner packed and not cover it if it gets damage.
I see all the time people telling others to shrink wrap and cardboard wrap before NAVL gets there.
This will help them get out of paying the claims.

#28 11 years ago

Thanks Dan

#29 11 years ago

I had one pin shipped to me with the legs on. Two of the leg levelers had actually vibrated loose from the legs and were not to be found in the truck. Also, a number of soldered wires had vibrated loose and had to be resoldered. I would never have a game shipped on it's legs again.

#30 11 years ago
Quoted from redmamanora:

I had one pin shipped to me with the legs on. Two of the leg levelers had actually vibrated loose from the legs and were not to be found in the truck. Also, a number of soldered wires had vibrated loose and had to be resoldered. I would never have a game shipped on it's legs again.

Bad things can happen no matter what you do. Your situation is not nearly as bad as those that have had forks go right through that crate and through your pin. Legs on with NAVL is just as safe or safer than any other method.

#31 11 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

ON!!! FFS, people! Leave the pin UNTOUCHED. Let the shippers document the condition and take photos. Then, they can't blame damage on improper packing. If they can't see it on pickup, they wont pay the claim.

Pin lawyer is "FFS" lawyer terminology?

-1
#32 11 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

with NAVL legs on with leg protectors and make sure the leg bolts are nice and tight... very safe!

I agree !! NAVL is the way to go ....

#33 11 years ago

I would ship legs on (with protectors) for STI/NAVL. This seems to keep the forklift away and the game gets moved by hand. The forklift is where most major damage comes from.

#34 11 years ago

I called Michel ...she called the shipping company precision not navl ... But the machine which was wrapped up perfect and I was wicked happy ... A job well done ... The machine I had shipped had been in at least 5 different trucks

#35 11 years ago
Quoted from Dawson:

Just got one legs on from precision shipping looks well done here with legs on

Did STI/NAVL do that pack job or the seller?

#36 11 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

Leave the pin UNTOUCHED. Let the shippers document the condition and take photos. Then, they can't blame damage on improper packing. If they can't see it on pickup, they wont pay the claim.

Guess it ultimately depends on the carrier, because STI/NAVL actually paid a claim of mine where the game was pre-packed by the seller with cardboard & shrink wrap.

You might recall this old thread/legs-on, legs-off debate on on RGP:

http://rgparchive-removed.com/rgpforum/showthread.php?t=374833&highlight=NAVL+Damage%3A+Photos+WH2O%3B+For%2FWhat+Rights

Michelle & STI/NAVL came through for me to my complete satisfaction; great company.

Not sure if they made an exception or if it's because I'm a repeat customer--but personally I'd rather have the seller try his best to bullet-proof the game in advance to protect it from careless employees.

#37 11 years ago

I guess if I were to ever spend $10,000+ on a used machine... I'd just go get it myself.
(If you want something done right; do it yourself.)

#38 11 years ago

Sti did the pa king Job I actually got the driver/packers number and asked him to do it extra special real nice guy ... Plus I got 3 handy shipping blankets out if the deal .. The nice commercial ones

#39 11 years ago
Quoted from Timerider:

I guess if I were to ever spend $10,000+ on a used machine... I'd just go get it myself.
(If you want something done right; do it yourself.)

Ha...where's that pic of the LOTR that fell off someone's open trailer?

And I myself have damaged many pins, unfortunately. Not by being careless either. Crap just happens sometimes.

And just to clarify:

Michelle Bianchi is with Precision Transport which, like the Beltmann Group (who she was previously with), is an agent for North American Van Lines, which in 2004 actually became STI. Michelle is so well known because she actually created the coding for shipping coin-operated equipment (like pinball machines) so that they could be shipped "white glove" (ie no pallet or crating, moving company style) at reasonable rates.

So when you book with Beltmann or Precision, you're actually shipping with STI, which in 2011 was bought by CRST (expanded service, slightly higher rates)...but it's a "white glove" service with actual value insurance (not by weight, like most LTL freight companies), and you're paying for them to wrap it so let them do it with blankets/cardboard as shown in the picture above (with legs on).

#40 11 years ago

Since the MM is one of the more expensive machines, I would go for the pallet. I have had machines shipped both ways and pallet is more of a hassle, but worth it.

#41 11 years ago
Quoted from Dawson:

Sti did the pa king Job I actually got the driver/packers number and asked him to do it extra special real nice guy ... Plus I got 3 handy shipping blankets out if the deal .. The nice commercial ones

Did Michelle give you the Drivers phone number
I would pay pal the driver who pics it up a tip to get the "extra special job done"

#42 11 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Did Michelle give you the Drivers phone number
I would pay pal the driver who pics it up a tip to get the "extra special job done"

Michelle can not give you a driver's phone number. Only the dispatcher at the local STI hub will have that.

It is common courtesy for the shipper to tip the STI driver/crew if they do a good job of packing the machine. They don't pay for the blankets, cardboard or shrink wrap...the shipper can ask them to lather it up well and make it worth their time.

#43 11 years ago
Quoted from Pinmeister:

Since the MM is one of the more expensive machines, I would go for the pallet. I have had machines shipped both ways and pallet is more of a hassle, but worth it.

Yes, pallet is the way to go for expensive pins so the chances of a forklift going through the middle of the PF are increased dramatically.

#44 11 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yes, pallet is the way to go for expensive pins so the chances of a forklift going through the middle of the PF are increased dramatically.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

But hay, the poll says 36 random people know better than 21 random people, so what do we know. I only sell/ship arcade equipment all over the country for a living. Aside from raising chickens and tending to the fields of course.

-1
#45 11 years ago
Quoted from ReplayRyan:

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

But hay, the poll says 36 random people know better than 21 random people, so what do we know.

there's a poll out that shows that 75% of people that vote in polls don't actually have a clue what they're voting for... this is one of those polls!

#46 11 years ago
Quoted from redmamanora:

I had one pin shipped to me with the legs on. Two of the leg levelers had actually vibrated loose from the legs and were not to be found in the truck. Also, a number of soldered wires had vibrated loose and had to be resoldered. I would never have a game shipped on it's legs again.

Thinking those had to be the rear levelers and the seller left them extended.

Part of my pre-shipping check-list includes specific instructions to the seller to spin all four levelers in all the way AND to tighten the nuts on the levelers as tight as possible--both so they can't spin out, and to reduce the game's pitch from 6.5 degrees to max horizontal for the trip.

Never had levelers spin out on me using the above formula.

Pincabs are as must as MrWizzo mentioned and torquing all 8 leg bolts as tight as possible as he mentioned; (great idea of his to ask the seller to check for stripped threads & to use a nut if so).

All this is for screened games only--unless the decals have had the Stern ACDC leg brackets installed & have had the decals cut back...otherwise no choice but to pallet decalled games.

#47 11 years ago

If I were buying a MM I would get the machine crated. Full wood crate.

#48 11 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

If I were buying a MM I would get the machine crated. Full wood crate.

Meta has closed the debate with the crate. that's the answer for sure.

Dan

#49 11 years ago
Quoted from MrWizzo:

Meta has closed the debate with the crate. that's the answer for sure.
Dan

Are you crazy? That's not safe! It should be double palletized and crated, then you should crate the crate! And then surround it with giant marshmallows. Infuse the marshmallows with titanium. Finish it off not with stretch wrap but with kevlar wrap. Call Brink's to make the delivery and pray like hell it makes it safely!

#50 11 years ago
Quoted from MrWizzo:

Meta has closed the debate with the crate. that's the answer for sure.

Dan

This is not always possible. When I bought my MM I was lucky he would let NAVL pick it up.
There is no way he would crate it. I had to talk him into meeting NAVL.

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