(Topic ID: 278184)

Sharp shooter acting up

By Bach88

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Bach88
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

SharpShooter_MPU_2.jpg
87A13E57-4E8B-48C4-856A-3D8E17470D7A.jpeg
B389AAF7-B926-4A4C-BAE4-A54FE19DD446.jpeg
4347C5AD-D9D5-4F42-9D16-0944A22D560E.jpeg
B8F5DE20-1356-4ABB-8F03-0244A93A1F18.jpeg
35DD4E88-D2E3-4747-A8EE-A3480142E678.jpeg
Pinside_NoScaling.png
Screenshot_20200928_194111_com.lonelycatgames.Xplore(1).jpg
#1 3 years ago

Turned on the sharp shooter today and it’s acting up. Top left pop bumper actuates randomly. When the ball goes in the drain it won’t spit the ball back out. The coin counter keeps going up randomly. Some of the play field switches aren’t working. The relay on the spu clicks randomly. In test it has the slam switch closed. So I tested all the switches thy are fine. Unplugged the slam switch from the mpu and it still shows it’s closed. I’m guessing this is on the board (or boards) but not really sure where to start. Hope someone with more knowledge then me about game plans can point me in the right direction.

#2 3 years ago

No one else has had issues like this? Just want to hear what you guys think.

#3 3 years ago

Has the mpu been serviced at any point? I don't know much about Game Plan games, but i read that there's a capacitor near the red push-button switch on the mpu, below the right-most dip switch bank...It's a 0.01 uf/16v ceramic cap that is involved in the cpu timing. Apparently can cause weird behaviour if it goes bad. Not sure what else to suggest, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

Screenshot_20200928_194111_com.lonelycatgames.Xplore(1).jpgScreenshot_20200928_194111_com.lonelycatgames.Xplore(1).jpg

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Has the mpu been serviced at any point? I don't know much about Game Plan games, but i read that there's a capacitor near the red push-button switch on the mpu, below the right-most dip switch bank...It's a 0.01 uf/16v ceramic cap that is involved in the cpu timing. Apparently can cause weird behaviour if it goes bad. Not sure what else to suggest, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.
[quoted image]

Thanks for the reply. When I got this pin about 5yrs ago the mpu would not boot. I re-caped the whole board, replaced some ics on the clock circuit, all the zener diodes(I had them on hand), completely rebuilt the sister board, and replaced the z80 cpu. I’ve read the same as you and even though it got replaced 5yrs ago I replaced it yesterday with no changes. I was hoping it would be something easy in the switch matrix but my trouble shooting leads me to believe otherwise. The issues are on multiple lines and the slam switch stays closed even after unplugging from the mpu. Not sure what to make of this but when in test slam shows closed which is 003 no other switch will register except for 001(account reset) and 002 (game start). I’m just hoping it’s not the roms as that might price me out of fixing this if I have to buy a burner.

#5 3 years ago

I'm not familiar with Game Plan games, but do they have a self-test mode that checks ROM checksum? That would help in deciding whether the problem is in ROMs or elsewhere.

Also, have you replaced your power supply filter caps?

Edit: Looks like they have a diagnostic LED similar to Bally SS games, where you can count the flashes at startup. If you get six flashes then the game has passed ROM checksum test.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Bach88:

I’m just hoping it’s not the roms as that might price me out of fixing this if I have to buy a burner.

The ROMs are tested at the 6th MPU board LED flash. So provided you consistently get the 6 LED flashes and the game boots to attract mode, I wouldn't suspect the ROMs.

Quoted from Bach88:

Not sure what to make of this but when in test slam shows closed which is 003 no other switch will register except for 001(account reset) and 002 (game start)

Switch test mode only shows the lowest switch number closed. You won't see any above 030 reported if the slam switch on the coin door is closed.

Quoted from Bach88:

slam switch stays closed even after unplugging from the mpu.

To confirm, you removed the J6 connector (cabinet switch harness) from the MPU board when testing this?

I've never actually seen a GamePlan machine but I did help two pinsiders a few years ago with Sharp Shooter/II switch matrix MPU board issues - both turned out to be a faulty U14 chip (74154). Not saying it's your issue but a logic probe is probably your friend right now.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Tuukka:

I'm not familiar with Game Plan games, but do they have a self-test mode that checks ROM checksum? That would help in deciding whether the problem is in ROMs or elsewhere.
Also, have you replaced your power supply filter caps?
Edit: Looks like they have a diagnostic LED similar to Bally SS games, where you can count the flashes at startup. If you get six flashes then the game has passed ROM checksum test.

I did not replace the filter cap. Looks as though someone has in the past. Checking for ac ripple on the filter cap returns no ac voltage reading on the dmm. I know it’s suppose to be under .200v but is no reading acceptable or should I be seeing some voltage. All voltages on the ps check ok except 12v measures 14.5. I know It’s suppose to be within 12v to 14v so I’m guessing that’s ok unless someone tells me otherwise.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

To confirm, you removed the J6 connector (cabinet switch harness) from the MPU board when testing this?
I've never actually seen a GamePlan machine but I did help two pinsiders a few years ago with Sharp Shooter/II switch matrix MPU board issues - both turned out to be a faulty U14 chip (74154). Not saying it's your issue but a logic probe is probably your friend right now.

Yes, test mode shows 030 pulled j6 and still shows 030. I did swap out U14 with one I had on hand but who knows if it’s a good one it came out of a bin I acquired years ago full of ics. So this is gonna be your third then

Quoted from Quench:

Switch test mode only shows the lowest switch number closed. You won't see any above 030 reported if the slam switch on the coin door is closed

Figured that since 010 and 020 will display when closed but thanks for the info.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Bach88:

I did swap out U14 with one I had on hand but who knows if it’s a good one it came out of a bin I acquired years ago full of ics. So this is gonna be your third then

Umm, are you saying replacing U14 fixed it?

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Umm, are you saying replacing U14 fixed it?

Sorry I wasn’t clear on that. No it did not fix it. The problems seem more random every time I turn it on as in sometimes the flippers work sometimes they don't. Sometimes the start button starts the game and other times pressing it scores points. All this happens with the old U14 chip and with the one I replaced it with.

#11 3 years ago

What happens when you go to switch test mode and remove both J5 (playfield switch harness) and J6 (cabinet switch harness) so the MPU board no longer receives any switch info from anywhere in the game - do you still get 030 reported?

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

What happens when you go to switch test mode and remove both J5 (playfield switch harness) and J6 (cabinet switch harness) so the MPU board no longer receives any switch info from anywhere in the game - do you still get 030 reported?

Yes still shows 030.

#13 3 years ago

Got a logic probe?
If yes, with J5 and J6 disconnected, what do you probe at:

U23 pin 14 =
U18 pin 14 =
U18 pin 2 =
U18 pin 13 =
U18 pin 1 =
U23 pin 13 =
U23 pin 1 =
U23 pin 2 =

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Got a logic probe?
If yes, with J5 and J6 disconnected, what do you probe at:
U23 pin 14 =
U18 pin 14 =
U18 pin 2 =
U18 pin 13 =
U18 pin 1 =
U23 pin 13 =
U23 pin 1 =
U23 pin 2 =

I can borrow one from my dad and post the results. Seeing as I haven’t used a logic probe since I was a teenager and my dad was always over my shoulder telling me what to do raises a couple questions. Is this cmos? ttl? And where am I grabbing power for the probe? Thanks for all the help. It’s greatly appreciated!!

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Bach88:

I can borrow one from my dad and post the results.

For now, just measure the voltages on those pins. They shouldn't have any pulsing activity (provided you disconnect J5 and J6) so should be sitting at steady voltage levels.

#16 3 years ago

U23 pin 14 = 0.0
U18 pin 14 = 0.0
U18 pin 2 = 3.1
U18 pin 13 = 0.1
U18 pin 1 = 1.8
U23 pin 13 = 0.0
U23 pin 1 = 0.0
U23 pin 2 = 0.0

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

For now, just measure the voltages on those pins. They shouldn't have any pulsing activity (provided you disconnect J5 and J6) so should be sitting at steady voltage levels.

Double checked the measurements this morning and voltage on u18 pins 1 and 2 are bouncing up and down. All the rest are still it zero.

#18 3 years ago

Sorry, I just rechecked the schematics.
Can you take a photo of the 32 dip switches on the MPU board so you have record of how they're set, then switch them all OFF.
Then power on the game and redo those voltage measurements on post #13.

The dip switches are a part of the switch matrix and they could be affecting the readings you took.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sorry, I just rechecked the schematics.
Can you take a photo of the 32 dip switches on the MPU board so you have record of how they're set, then switch them all OFF.
Then power on the game and redo those voltage measurements on post #13.
The dip switches are a part of the switch matrix and they could be affecting the readings you took.

U18 pin 1 Reads 1.8 but bounces.
U18 pin 2 reads 3.46 holds steady this time. All the other pins read 0

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Bach88:

U18 pin 1 Reads 1.8 but bounces.
U18 pin 2 reads 3.46 holds steady this time. All the other pins read 0

If GamePlan included a switch matrix diagram, you would see that U18 pin 2 corresponds to the row that the slam switch is on..

Now this time measure the inputs to those chips and let's see if the chip is bad or it's getting bad signal from up stream.

So with J5 and J6 still disconnected and all the 32 DIP switches OFF, measure the voltages at these pins:

(Data 0) J5 pin 11
(Data 1) J5 pin 9
(Data 2) J5 pin 15
(Data 3) J5 pin 8
(Data 4) J5 pin 14
(Data 5) J5 pin 10
(Data 6) J5 pin 12
(Data 7) J5 pin 13

(Data 0) U23 pin 8
(Data 1) U18 pin 8
(Data 2) U18 pin 4
(Data 3) U18 pin 10
(Data 4) U18 pin 6
(Data 5) U23 pin 10
(Data 6) U23 pin 6
(Data 7) U23 pin 4

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

If GamePlan included a switch matrix diagram, you would see that U18 pin 2 corresponds to the row that the slam switch is on..
Now this time measure the inputs to those chips and let's see if the chip is bad or it's getting bad signal from up stream.
So with J5 and J6 still disconnected and all the 32 DIP switches OFF, measure the voltages at these pins:
(Data 0) J5 pin 11
(Data 1) J5 pin 9
(Data 2) J5 pin 15
(Data 3) J5 pin 8
(Data 4) J5 pin 14
(Data 5) J5 pin 10
(Data 6) J5 pin 12
(Data 7) J5 pin 13
(Data 0) U23 pin 8
(Data 1) U18 pin 8
(Data 2) U18 pin 4
(Data 3) U18 pin 10
(Data 4) U18 pin 6
(Data 5) U23 pin 10
(Data 6) U23 pin 6
(Data 7) U23 pin 4

All pins measure 4.86

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from Bach88:

All pins measure 4.86

Good.

U18 might be bad. There's more measurements we could do but the schematics don't mark resistor locations which makes it difficult.

U18 is a LM339 op-amp so if you have any spares handy, try replacing it.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Good.
U18 might be bad. There's more measurements we could do but the schematics don't mark resistor locations which makes it difficult.
U18 is a LM339 op-amp so if you have any spares handy, try replacing it.

I don’t have one on hand so I’ll have to source one. In the meantime if you want me trace down the resistors I’m willing if you are. I do have the schematics and basic (very basic) knowledge of circuitry.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from Bach88:

In the meantime if you want me trace down the resistors I’m willing if you are.

Post a clear high res picture of the U18 area and maybe an overall MPU board pic. Preferably taken outdoors in daylight but out of direct sunlight. That way I get a natural shot of the resistor colors to determine what's what.
Oh, also a picture of the back of the board where U18 is if possible.

When you attach the pics, make sure you deselect Pinsides picture rescaling:

Pinside_NoScaling.pngPinside_NoScaling.png

#25 3 years ago

Here you go.

35DD4E88-D2E3-4747-A8EE-A3480142E678.jpeg35DD4E88-D2E3-4747-A8EE-A3480142E678.jpeg4347C5AD-D9D5-4F42-9D16-0944A22D560E.jpeg4347C5AD-D9D5-4F42-9D16-0944A22D560E.jpeg87A13E57-4E8B-48C4-856A-3D8E17470D7A.jpeg87A13E57-4E8B-48C4-856A-3D8E17470D7A.jpegB389AAF7-B926-4A4C-BAE4-A54FE19DD446.jpegB389AAF7-B926-4A4C-BAE4-A54FE19DD446.jpegB8F5DE20-1356-4ABB-8F03-0244A93A1F18.jpegB8F5DE20-1356-4ABB-8F03-0244A93A1F18.jpeg
#26 3 years ago

I see battery corrosion around the U18 pins you're getting bad voltages on. Time to pull that chip off and properly clean up that area. Click the image to zoom in.

Realistically you need to investigate if there's any corrosion around the U26 socket too since it's near the previously leaked battery.

SharpShooter_MPU_2.jpgSharpShooter_MPU_2.jpg

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

I see battery corrosion around the U18 pins you're getting bad voltages on. Time to pull that chip off and properly clean up that area. Click the image to zoom in.
Realistically you need to investigate if there's any corrosion around the U26 socket too since it's near the previously leaked battery.
[quoted image]

Cleaned the resistor area, desolderd then resoolderd the three resistors and it seems to have fixed the problems. I will remove U18 clean it all up and install a new chip since I ordered them already. You the man Quench !!! Thanks for all the help it is greatly appreciated.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from Bach88:

Cleaned the resistor area, desolderd then resoolderd the three resistors and it seems to have fixed the problems.

Great!

#29 3 years ago

I spoke too soon. Played it for a little bit and some of the symptoms returned. Getting 1.5v on U18 pin 2 and 0.05 on pin 1 now.

#30 3 years ago

Remove U18, clean PCB, install socket, clean U18 legs, reinstall.

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Remove U18, clean PCB, install socket, clean U18 legs, reinstall.

Seeing as it’s the weekend I’ll probably just wait till the new ones arrive on Monday and replace the old one. At least I got to play a few rounds

#32 3 years ago

If you feel like it, measure the resistance between U18 pins 1 and 2, then 2 and 3, then 3 and 4.
Compare the readings against U23. Ideally the respective pin measurements should be the same. If they're less on U18 it indicates the corrosion is causing shorts.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Remove U18, clean PCB, install socket, clean U18 legs, reinstall.

Removing U18 revealed more corrosion. Cleaned everything up and then the mail came and no chips so I put the old one back in fired it up and played it for about an hour . Thanks again for all the help!!! If I was 20yrs younger I would have spotted that corrosion in a heartbeat. I swear the day I turned 40 I couldn’t read small print anymore. If your ever in the Tampa Bay Area let me know, I owe you a beer or two.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 12.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 16.50
Magazines/books
Pinball Magazine
 
$ 98.99
Boards
PinballReplacementParts
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sharp-shooter-acting-up?hl=tuukka and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.