Hello Everyone! I am the proud new owner of a 1967 Shangri-la. I played a quick game on it at the seller's house and didn't notice any obvious problems. Once I got home I played quite a few games and noticed that it will activate the tilt function even though there is no plumb bob on the wire form. The horizontal tilt "ball cage" doesn't have a ball in it either. One of the switch blades is broken off from the switch that is located at the end of the "ball cage."

It doesn't tilt every game or every ball. Sometimes it will do it twice in a row and other times it won't do it for five or more games. When it does tilt it's either right after a ball is plunged and it hits a rollover target, but I can't figure out which rollover because I took the glass off and tapped on all of the rollovers repeatedly and it didn't do it. I do have one rollover that won't register a score 90% of the time it is hit and when I did get it to score it didn't tilt immediately. Sometimes it will already be tilted before you even plunge the ball. I also noticed if you are in a two-player game and it is already tilted before plunging the ball that the next players ball will be tilted before they plunge and it won't go back to be un-tilted until both players turn is over on that particular ball.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on what to check out to fix this annoying problem?

Thanks!

Ahhhhhh! I need your help, it's worse now! I tried to trip the tilt relay manually by closing one of the contacts and now the flippers won't work and none of the switches on the playfield will score anything- just like it's in tilt mode It will still trip the tilt relay if I close the tilt switch on the bottom side of the playfield and it will reset the relay if I put a ball in the through, but it is still dead on the next ball. I checked all of the fuses and they are fine.

I hope I didn't screw anything up with my poking around! Any ideas?

I inspected and cleaned all of the switches in the tilt relay and it didn't make a difference. It finally just came back on after raising and lowering the PF a few times looking at things. There is a bank of relays that is attached to the underside of the playfield. Anytime a standup or rollover was hit that is on that bank of relays the game acts likes it tilted, even though it hasn't. When one of the previously mentioned relays is activated the "reset bar" raises and the game quits playing. After a few times of doing this and starting games it began to act really screwed up like ringing a bell when you would push the start button and you would hear a coil stuck on and it would stay stuck on until you hit one of the rollover or standups that is associated with the bank of relays on the bottom of the PF and then the coil would shut off when it went into it's fake tilt mode.

I'm at my wits end with the P.O.S. today and feel like putting a stick of dynamite in it!! Arrrgh!

AlexF, thanks again for responding to my dilema. LOL Ok, so new day, new start and don't feel like blowing it up..... yet. LOL What we figured out when raising and lowering the PF is that the reset bar on the bank of relays on the bottom of the PF raises and the game does it's fake tilt. I really think this is the root of the problem.

When we brought the game home I unplugged and looked at the connectors and they all looked clean, but I didn't clean them so I guess I can do that. I can inspect the wires on the relays on the bottom of the PF for loose lugs. I will also look at the cloth insulation.

I don't have a schematic as I just got the game and it didn't come with one, but there is one on ipdb.org Do you think I should start a new thread and see if any of the EM techs respond or is there one that you recommend I should send a private message to?

Thanks again!

Ok. I'm going to take a good luck at the bank of relays on the bottom of the PF and hopefully some of the regular guys jump in because I'm a newb and could really use their help!

So I took the shop light and gave everything on the relay bank a good look. Someone has re-done a majority of the wiring at one time or another and it looks very good, probably done by a professional.

Everything looks good. The only thing I see is that most of the switch contacts look pretty dirty. I am hesitant to clean the switches because everything worked before, I'm a newb and by no means a pro at cleaning switches and don't want to potentially introduce any new problems.

I printed off the schematic from ipdb so I have that it my hands now.

Anyone know what I should do next or look for?

Pin-it / way2wyrd,

Thank you very much for joining this thread and trying to help me fix my problem. I have attached two pics of the tilt switches that you mentioned. I don't think these are causing the problem.

This morning I went out to the game and let it do it's fake tilt thing and saw that when it did this it didn't activate the tilt solenoid. If I manually close the tilt switches in the pictures it will activate the tilt solenoid and "tilt" will light up on the backglass.

It also is sometimes starting a game on ball 2 and when the ball trips the trough switch it will score 200 points on the player 2 score reel even though it's on a one player game!

mech_panel_tilt.jpg under_PF_tilt.jpg

Ok may be this >> http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0309.html

I looked at the bank of relays and switches and didn't see anything that looked odd or jumped out at me, such as switches touching other switches, but then again I'm not a professional so I may not be looking for the right thing.

Try tapping the playfield or press the rollovers to get it to act up,it will reveal itself (wire/contact burn marks/dark spots/sparks) just keep a close eye on what is happening.
Load some photos of the relay bank?

I turned off the lights and I got it to mess up. When it messed up I noticed that one of the switch stacks on the tilt relay sparks. I'm pretty sure in the pictures below the one that sparks is the topmost one, but not 100% sure of that. I also noticed that when the switch on the tilt relay sparks that the copper colored "arm" doesn't raise like when I manually close once of the tilt switches on the PF or mechanical panel. The brown looking little roller moves upward slightly also when the switch mentioned above sparks.

Is the big aluminum bank reset bar supposed to stay down when the game is playing? I noticed that the game won't play if the arm is up, but if the arm is down it will play and also when hitting a playfield target or rollover the arm lifts slightly and quits playing.

Another observation tonight was that when I could get it to start a ball and not automatically do it's fake tilt thing that the "hundreds" reel on player one acts like it was trying to move and everytime I would hit the flippers or any switch on the PF besides a rollover or standup the reel would try and jump a little. I did have a problem with the machine when I first brought it home that Player One's hundreds reel wouldn't reset 100% of the times I started a new game. I remember reading in Clay H's repair guide that Williams games were known for wires coming off of the switch lugs. Sure enough I found a wire that was off of the Player One hundreds reel so I stripped the wire, twisted it with the one that was still on the lug and soldered them both back on- see closeup picture for the wires that I repaired. The machine has always done it's fake or 1/2 tilt thing, but when I soldered the wires back is right around the time it started to act really crazy with the ball counts, ringing a chime when resetting the game, scoring on player 2's score reels even when it was set to a one player game, buzzing sound, etc. When I pulled the reel off to take the pics I noticed that relay was warm and the other reel's relays weren't warm to the touch.

For the ball count unit,have you rebuilt it ?(cleaned + lube)more info here.>> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

No, I haven't done this yet. I was thinking of doing it, but since the ball counter worked flawlessly before it went haywire I thought I better leave it alone and fix the haywire problem first. If you think I should go ahead clean it and lube it I don't have a problem doing that.

I apologize for the length of the response, but just want to be as detailed as possible.

IMG_20130915_235422_tilt_relay_sw.jpg Relay_bank_underside.jpg IMG_20130915_235434[1]_relay_bank.jpg

Below is a general pic of the Player One "hundreds" reel and a close-up of the wire repair that I did- top lug with the two wires on it.

Player1_100s_reel.jpg Player1_100s_reel_closeup.jpg

Hello! Thank you for joining in on the fun. LOL

It does randomly tilt, but it doesn't fully trip the tilt relay or light the "tilt" light on the backglass like it does if I manually close the tilt switch that is located on the bottom of the PF. No, it's not fixed yet.

I hooked my DMM up to the switch solder lugs and wiggled the switches and came up with the following. I wasn't 100% sure what my DMM readings should look like so I tested the start switch and a switch on the lock relay and came up with the following:

Playfield Tilt Swich: Open=5.1 Closed=.5
Coin Door Slam Tilt Switch: Open=no reading Closed=.5
Start Switch: Open=no reading Closed=.5
Mech Panel Tilt: Open=5.1 Closed=.5
Lock Relay Swich: Open=.5 Closed=.5

There was no change in any of the switches tested when wiggled.

I wonder if I stumbled on something by testing the lock relay and saw that it gave the same reading whether it was opened or closed? Also it seems odd to me that some of the switches have some resistance when open and some read "open"

I double checked the jones plugs and they are on the proper positions- in the backbox the colors on male and female sides of the connector match. The two jones plugs on the back of the mech panel each have a different number of terminals so I know they are correct.

I did as Chrisbee suggested and tested some switches; the results are in my previous post. A couple things raised an eyebrow, but I'm not sure if what I saw are normal or not.

You interpreted correctly.
I just confirmed that the game will absolutely not play unless the reset bar is in the down position. I'm not sure if the bar being down is what is letting the game play or just another symptom of my problem. I'm guessing whatever this big problem is that I'm experiencing is holding the plunger in on the reset bank solenoid and I bet that when it is holding the bar down the solenoid is the loud buzzing sound I hear. I kind of figured like you said that bar should not stay down.

Ok, that's what I figured, but thought it may have been overkill. LOL

It actually is causing issues with the other relays in the bank. Whenever any of the PF switches are hit that have the relay on this bank the game will then do it's
tilt thing.

I did measure ohms. My ohm meter was set on "200." Is this the correct setting for testing the switches? The tilt switch on the mechanical panel measures 5.1 open, .6 closed, and made no difference in the reading when I wiggled the switch.

Someone has changed the wires on that SW so I have attached a pic. I tested the switch that is all the way on the right and has the brown and green wires on it.

When I touched both leads of my DMM together it read .5 and when they weren't touched together there was no reading, once again with my DMM set to "200"
I re-checked all of the SWs in my 1st test and the results are as follows:
Mech Panel Tilt: Open=5.3 Closed=.6
Coin Door Tilt: Open=no reading Closed=.6
Start Switch: Open=no reading Closed=.6
PF Tilt: Open=5.2 Closed=.5
RH Lock Relay: Open=.6 Closed=.5
No change in readings when above switches were wiggled

Below are my readings with all of the fuses out of the game:
PF Tilt: Open=19.9 Closed=.5
Coin Door Tilt: Open=no reading Closed=.5
Start Switch: Open=no reading Closed=.5
Mech Panel Tilt: Open=20.1 Closed=.5
RH Lock Relay: Open=.5 Closed=.5
No change in readings when above switches were wiggled

Lock_Relay.jpg

I appreciate you and everyone else with the help tesing the switches.
Definitely better than doing a crossword puzzle! LOL

not that it's necessarily connected to the problem, and it could be just the way it looks in that picture, but the innermost switch on the lock relay looks like it is closed when it should be open...
from the way the blades "fit" in the armature, and going from the outermost to the innermost swtch, when the lock relay is disengaged, the switches should be closed, closed, open and open, and when it is engaged, they should be open, open, closed and closed...
nice to see the coil is in its customary toasted condition...

I am pretty sure they are right, but thought I would put up two pics; one with it disengaged and one with me engaging it.

Lock_Relay_disengaged.jpg Lock_Relay_engaged.jpg

I'm guessing that it's okay that it's been re-wrapped?

Yesterday was the first time that I tested a switch and I hooked up the leads to the lock relay because I wanted to see what the readings would look like on a switch that wasn't a tilt switch, kind of as a control I guess. I saw that it was .5 closed and open, thought it wasn't correct and posted that result up to maybe shed some light on what was going on. I apologize if I got ahead of myself and/or shouldn't have posted it.

The DMM I have is a cheapie from Harbor Freight that I have had for years. I can't really afford a good one right now, but if the one I have is going to give us problems in diagnosing the problem I can borrow a better DMM from my brother.

Don't know if I follow you here. I think you might be asking a question to the other pros that are in this thread. I apologize for not being able to follow.

Looks to be shorting? Sparking around that relay pivot arm ?just loosen and reset the contacts farther away.

Good eye! I just looked at it and the side of the switch closest to the pivot arm has about 1/8" clearance between it and the pivot arm. It definitely looks like it did make contact at one time or another, but it doesn't rest against it. I took a closeup pic to show the gap. I can move the pivot arm from side to side and make it hit the side of the switch, but in it's natural state it doesn't touch. Do you think I should loosen the screws and move it over as you suggested? Thanks for the help!

Tilt_Relay_Switch_Closeup.jpg

I went ahead and did it, but probably as both of us expected there was no change in the way the game acted. Thanks for telling me in which order to tighten the screws.

I just did a test with all of the fuses out of the game, except for the PF fuse because I forgot to take it out and didn't notice it was in until I was done with my test. With my DMM set to "200" I tested the three tilt switches and came up with the following:

Playfield Tilt: Open=19.9 Open w/relay energized position=18.7 Closed=.5 Closed w/relay energized position=.5

Mech Panel Tilt: Open=19.9 Open w/relay energized position=18.7 Closed=.5 Closed w/relay energized position=.5

Coin Door Tilt: Open=infinity Open w/relay energized position=infinity Closed=.6 Closed w/relay energized position=.6

Let me know if I need to re-test these with the PF fuse out.

Hello. Thank you for joining in and offering to help us with your Shangri-la!

In the first few posts in this thread I mentioned that it acts like it is tilting, but the tilt light isn't lighting up. The only way the tilt will light on the backglass and the tilt relay trip is if I manually close the playfield tilt switch or close the tilt switch on the mechanical panel. T So you might be on to something here.

I see what you are saying and it makes sense. I don't know if you saw it or not a few post back, but I tested the right most switch on the lock relay and it is giving me the same ohm reading whether the switch is open or closed. In #5 you talk about a flasher bulb on a relay board. To the best of my knowledge it doesn't have this and if I manually close a tilt switch it will only reset when the ball goes back in the trough or a new game is started.

Ok, I get it now. Thanks for explaining that.