Lompoc, CA
What should I check for this? Pictures of the switch/units are helpful if you have them. Thanks!
(Topic ID: 233858)
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Shangri-La
Williams, 1967
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Quoted from Portraitman2:What should I check for this? Pictures of the switch/units are helpful if you have them. Thanks!
Four switches in this circuit. A normally open switch on the center target relay, a normally closed switch on the Index cam of the motor at level A (the bottom switch) which pulses the 300 point relay, the star target switch, and a normally open switch on the gate relay. The 300 when lit light is controlled off the gate relay. I think we can pretty much eliminate the switch since it is scoring 100. My suspicion is the Index Cam nomally closed switch is staying open and thus it cannot pulse the 300 point relay for the proper score. It could be the gate relay switch or the center target relay switches are not closing, but I'd check the motor switch first then go to the others.
Aarau
Hi Portraitman2 +
the first JPG is just for orientation -
When we hit the first time the "my green N" then the light a bit below, 'red 3' lights up and stay lit for the rest of the life of the ball - also the light near "my blue U" lights up and stay lit for the rest of the life of the ball - the Outlane must give 300 points.
When we hit the first time the "my green R" then the light a bit below, 'blue 3' lights up and stay lit for the rest of the life of the ball - also the light near "my blue Y" lights up and stay lit for the rest of the life of the ball - the Outlane must give 300 points.
When we play good an can make the playfield-numbers "red-1 and red-2 and red-3" the Gate opens and we can make on the playfield big points. The "yellow light on the playfield below the Center-Target (my green P)" lights up - every time the ball hits the Center-Target we should get 300 points.
When we play good an can make the playfield-numbers "white-1 and white-2 and white-3" ...
When we play good an can make the playfield-numbers "blue-1 and blue-2 and blue-3" ...
When we play very good and can make all 9 mentioned numbers: The orange light on the playfield below the Center-Target lights up and stay lit for the rest of the life of the ball - the Center Target gives an Special Replay WHEN the STAR-Center-Target is hit.
Do You not get 300 points on the lit Outlanes ?
Do You not get 300 points hitting one of the four Center-Targets when the "Yellow light on the playfield" is lit ? See the second JPG - what happens when You manually activate the 300-Relay ?
See the third JPG --- the Relay-Bank mounted on the playfield - in question are "No 3 Red Relay" and "No 3 Blue Relay" --- does Your Relay-Bank have papertags telling the relays ? HowardR shows in post-3 in the JPG "encircled (rectangle) red" the switches on these two relays.
And in the JPG a bit above the mentioned "red rectange" we see the "ball hits the fully lighted STAR-Center-Target and is rewarded 300 points. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: The order of the JPGs is wrong
edited - P.P.S: I wrote wrong - please read post-5
0Shangri-La-Mech-Panel-Work-01 (resized).jpg0Shangri-La-Relay-Bank-medium (resized).jpg0Shangri-La-ipdb-image-21-Work-01 (resized).jpg
I'm checking the relays mentioned and it looks like they make contact when they're supposed to and open when they're supposed to be... Still same problem.
When I push the 300 relay Armature over, it engages then chimes once for the 100 points then after a moment releases.
Hi Portraitman2
the pulling-in (You do manually activate it) of "300-Relay" must make the motor to turn - does Your motor does a turn of 180 degrees ? The "300-Relay" must stay pulling +/- for a turn of 90 degrees - and Your relay ? Tis is my last post for today - it is getting late in Switzerland. Greetings Rolf
Hi Portraitman2
see the JPG, "brown stuff": In a fully running pin the motor makes a turn of 180 degrees and the "Impulse B" pulses / fires five times towards the 100-Point-Relay. The Switch on 300-Relay is closed but not for the complete turn of 180 degrees. The 300-relay is made to quit pulling so by quit-pulling the switch on 300-Relay opens - not five pulses reach the 100-Point-Relay - only three pulses reach the 100-Point-Relay.
See the JPG, "blue stuff": In some way the 300-Relay is made to activate - so it moves all its switches - therefore the so-called Self-Hold-Switch on 300-Relay closes - the relay stays pulling until the motor-3B-switch opens - relay looses self-hold-current and let go.
Look in Your pin - a short wire runs from one side of the coil on 300-Relay to "Switch mounted on the 300-RELAY" - THIS is the Self-Hold-Switch. Inspect "my blue stuff / wirines and switches. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: When You manually press the armature of the 300-Relay when the motor is running You then get 200 or 300 or 400 or 500 .. points as more of the pulses of motor-Impulse-B can reach the coil on 100-Point-Relay.
0Shangri-La-Work-27 (resized).jpgOK, there is what looks like an orange, maybe it was brown at one point, wire that goes across the 300 relay coil and when I looked at the 300 point relay switch on the score motor that wire is also attached to the proper blade. How to check it?
Also, sometimes when I go down the left gutter U (in green on your diagram) I get no points at all and other times I get 100 points when lit.
Quoted from Portraitman2:PS-it looks like the 300 relay is holding just not scoring the 300 points.
If the 300 relay doesn't activate the 100 Point relay, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Pinball (resized).pngHi Portraitman2
when we have unplugged the main power cord and we press the armature on 300-Relay and let go (on the armature): Of course the armature immediately moves back - no current in the pin - none of the simple relays can pull / stay pulling. In post-13 You write "It looks like the 300-Relay is holding (just not scoring the three times 100 points)". See the JPG - You have plugged-in, toggled-on, started a game - You press the armature on 300-Relay and let go - does the 300-Relay stays pulling for a while - for about 90 to 110 degrees of turning motor - then motor-3B-switch opening cuts the Self-Hold-Current on 300-Relay - relay let go. Does Your 300-Relay stays pulling for this while ? Greetings Rolf
0Shangri-La-Work-28 (resized).jpgHi Portaitman2
I stand at my Shangri La like a player - I lift the playfield and look down into the cabinet - look at the switches on 300-Relay. The switch closest to me I call Switch-E, it is a Normally-Closed-Switch (N.C.). Then, next, a bit farther away from me comes a Normally-Open-Switch (N.O.) I call Switch-D, then comes N.O. Switch-C, then N.O. Switch-B, then N.O. Switch-A.
The Switch-A is the so-called "Self-Hold-Switch on the 300-Relay" - we see a short wire connecting from the switch to one side of the coil on 300-Relay.
See the JPG - see Switch-A, Switch, B, Switch-E. In my Shangri La I see a short connecting wire from Switch-E to Switch-B - so on the lower half of the JPG I show (drawn green) this short connecting wire.
When nothing is lit on the playfield and You hit the Center-Target (one of the four) and You get the 100 points: "My green wiring" is all working. You then manually activate the 300-Relay - it stays pulling for 90 to 110 degrees of the running motor turn BUT You do not get points: Inspect "my orange wiring" --- connecting wires broken-off ? switches faulty gapped - not closing ? contactpoints oxidated, not making contact ? Greetings Rolf
0Shangri-La-Work-29 (resized).jpgOkay Rolf, here’s where I get a little lost... if you’re telling me to follow the schematic to the proper circuits that’s a little difficult for me to figure out. If you’re just telling me to look at the wires connected to the blades I can see that the same blade on switch “B” that has the red short wire also has two brown looking wires and the next blade that it connects with has what looks like an orange wire attached. The contact between the two blades is clean and open, only touching when pulled closed.
Wait Rolf, never mind! I looked over my schematic of the switches on the score motor for red/orange and found it. It turns out that once again just like one of my last problems, the little piece of metal just below the blade was pushed down and touching the Blade below it and making constant contact. When I bent it back up it now awards the 300 points. Thank you very much.
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