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(Topic ID: 166281)

Shadow issue, flipper coils fire and hold on start up


By MagicMako

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Homepin
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

duracell_(resized).png
20160814_195556_(resized).jpg

#1 4 years ago

Hey guys,

So the bottom right flipper on my Shadow stopped working but everything else was fine, the F903 (lower right flipper) fuse was blown, so I replaced it, when I powered the machine on again the dmd came on all scrambled, all the coils fired and held and I saw fuse F112 (solenoid secondary) blow, I immediately turned the machine off. I replaced fuse F112 and when I powered the machine back on the same exact thing happened with the dmd and the solenoids and then it went out, I powered the machine off and now it does nothing when I try to power it back on. That's where I'm at for now, I appreciate any help or advice.

Thanks so much.

EDIT: Just the flipper coils fire and hold, GI and playfield lights go out as well

#2 4 years ago

Best is to start troubleshooting in a 'safe mode'.

-Unplug J102 (50V + 20V) or be sure the interlock-switch in coindoor is de-activated.
-Power up the machine and check PowerDriverBoard for 5V.digital, 12V.regulated and 12V.unreg.

If PDB has no power at all, pull powercord from wall and check main fuse.

Can you verify that F903 was blown. In my 'the Shadow' F903 is the 'upper right flipper' and F901 is 'lower right flipper'.

#3 4 years ago

Ok thanks, I will do this when i get home from work tonight.

And you're right, it was F901 that was blown, however my manual says the lower right flipper is F903(misprint?), but the upper right flipper was definitely working before when the lower right was not.

#4 4 years ago

Yep, there is a better version in the shadow-club:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-shadow-club/page/52#post-3014247

Quoted from MagicMako:

but the upper right flipper was definitely working before when the lower right was not.

Then check/reseat ribbon cables as well, maybe some bad data communication.

#5 4 years ago

Replaced the main fuse that was blown, powered the game on with the coin door open and it boots up fine, I got all the proper voltages at the test points on the PDB,

However I had the same issue when i tried closing the coin door, all the coils fire and hold, and the dmd went out, I quickly reopened the coin door before anything could blow, and it went back into attract mode.

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from MagicMako:

However I had the same issue when i tried closing the coin door, all the coils fire and hold, and the dmd went out, I quickly reopened the coin door before anything could blow, and it went back into attract mode.

Did you do this yet?

Quoted from zaza:

Then check/reseat ribbon cables as well, maybe some bad data communication.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Did you do this yet?

Yes, still the same.

Noticing now that only the 3 flippers fire and hold, the phurba coils dont fire and none of the kickers fire when I close the coin door. All the lights in the game go out too, when i open the coin door back up the game resets.

#8 4 years ago

I am thinking you may have a connector in wrong.
Can you post a picture of the bottom of the MPU where the wiring plugs into? Maybe off by one pin.

#9 4 years ago

Here's the photo, but all this started happening before I touched any connections, and the game was working fine before. The right flipper just stopped working, then when I replaced the fuse for the flipper and turned the machine on again the main fuse blew.

20160814_195556_(resized).jpg

#10 4 years ago

Could this be the issue? http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Coil_Locks_On

Also, PinballManiac, I appreciate the advise, and exploring all scenarios.

#11 4 years ago

The trick now is to find out why the flippercoils get activated. Is it because of bad data-signals, are multiple transitors blown or a short between powersources.

-inspect full playfield for loose wires or shorts.
-Disconnect fliptronicboard from power and data and see if the other solenoids, lamps and display are now working as it should.

#12 4 years ago

I recall his happening once and it was possibly the ULN2803 chip had blown after a short somewhere.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from MagicMako:

Could this be the issue? http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Coil_Locks_On
Also, PinballManiac, I appreciate the advise, and exploring all scenarios.

No, that will not be it. You have much more than a single coil locking on. zaza is very good, I must say, at helping finding tough issues fast.

#14 4 years ago

Though, I would like to see more of the MPU to see if there is any damage above the battery holder. As you can see from your picture, you have some nasty white/green acid from the bottom battery that you likely had just changed. duracell_(resized).png

#15 4 years ago

I will suggest moving to NVRAM. At least if you moved to Lithium batteries, that would be a better choice than Alkaline batteries.

#16 4 years ago

Magicmako, did you do this yet? ZAZA has a good technique here to narrow down to which board may be the issue.

Quoted from zaza:

The trick now is to find out why the flippercoils get activated. Is it because of bad data-signals, are multiple transitors blown or a short between powersources.
-inspect full playfield for loose wires or shorts.
-Disconnect fliptronicboard from power and data and see if the other solenoids, lamps and display are now working as it should.

#17 4 years ago

Hey guys, sorry had a busy couple of days.

I disconnected the Fliptronic board and everything worked as it should except the flipper solenoids

When I run switch edge test now, I get nothing when i hit the right and left flipper buttons (phurba buttons register fine), also the shooter lane switch gives me nothing, all other switches register from what i can tell. I also reconnected the Fliptronic board and the got same results with the flipper buttons and shooter land not registering.

#18 4 years ago

Alright, so, I took the battery holder off, removed each batter and cleaned it a bit, I also completely removed the Fliptronic board to check for any obvious burns or anything, which i didnt see. I put the board back in and reconnected everything..and now the game works fine, the flippers flip as normal and the al the switches register. It must've been like you said PinballManiac, one of the connectors must've needed to be re-seated or something, very strange. But all is good for now! Could the battery corrosion have had anything to do with it? Thank you ZaZa, DMC and PinballManiac, hopefully everything holds up.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from MagicMako:I put the board back in and reconnected everything..and now the game works fine, the flippers flip as normal and the al the switches register. It must've been like you said PinballManiac, one of the connectors must've needed to be re-seated or something, very strange.

That is what ZAZA suggested actually. Glad it worked out for you.

No, I don't see the battery corrosion having anything to do with the coils staying locked on during power up. Around the battery holder, would only see switch test failures as a result of acid damage. Are there any dull solder joints on the MPU above or below the battery holder once you remove the holder?

#20 4 years ago

Did you resolder the pins on the fliptronics board? This could cause strange issues if they are dry jointed.

I would also replace the ribbon cables. They are 20 years old and get minute corrosion inside the plugs that is difficult to see. These cause corrupted data and you did mention you had scrambled DMD display initially as well?

Yes, get rid of those batteries ASAP as you don't want corrosion to sneak up on you and wreak the MPU board.

While on that subject it is NOT "acid" damage batteries cause but "alkaline" damage. They are alkaline batteries, this is the opposite of acid and it is the reason acid (vinegar) is used to neutralise the alkaline spewing from batteries.

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