(Topic ID: 265838)

Shadow wall target problems

By waynoid

4 years ago


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  • 54 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by PinMonk
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

In solenoid test my wall target up works fine, but my wall target down fires the solenoid for the wall up. All others test fine. Any help would be much appreciated.

#2 4 years ago

So when you test the wall-release solenoid the solenoid reset (wall up) fires?

If you drop the wall manually and then test the wall release (drop), does it raise the wall?

In switch test mode, does the switch for the wall target register properly when the wall is lowered and raised manually?

#3 4 years ago

yes when I test the wall release it fires up and when I manually put the wall down and test the wall release it fires up. The switch test for the wall target down registers correctly when I do it manually , and the opto for the inner sanctum which triggers the wall down and the magnet looks fine in the switch test.

#4 4 years ago

Did it ever work correctly since you had it?

Solenoid 8 test is wall target up (wall reset)
Solenoid 16 test is wall target down (wall release)

Also, you're testing the wall release twice with no mention of the other test. What happens when you test the wall target reset Sol 8 when the target is down? When the target is up?

#5 4 years ago

yes it worked for several years when I test the wall up it goes up when i test the wall down it goes up.

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

yes it worked for several years when I test the wall up it goes up when i test the wall down it goes up.

It really sounds like the switch that reads the wall position isn't working right, or the vibration of the wall movement is triggering the switch giving it a bad reading.

Can you take a video in portrait mode so I can see the display and what the wall is doing at the same time while you hit solenoid test 8 and 16, and then the switch test while you manually raise and lower the wall?

#7 4 years ago

I took some video on the phone, but I dont have a clue about how to attach video to this post.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

I took some video on the phone, but I dont have a clue about how to attach video to this post.

Upload to youtube, put link to youtube video and it will insert the video in your post here.

You can also upload it to dropbox or google or something like that and post the link and I can just download it.

#9 4 years ago

Well here are the links sorry for the poor video. It was hard to hold the playfield up and film while manually dropping the target.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

Well here are the links sorry for the poor video. It was hard to hold the playfield up and film while manually dropping the target.

I think you need to make the videos public on youtube's control panel for each one. It says I can't have access because they're private.

#11 4 years ago

ok i changed them to public so i hope it works

#12 4 years ago

That worked. Can you get a couple shots of the target assembly itself under the PF with the target in the up and down position and the wiring for the targets visible?

Also, drop the target then try firing all the other coils one by one and see if any of THOSE reset the target to the up position.

#13 4 years ago
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#14 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I can't see from the angle, but are either of the wires going to the small coil that releases the wall near or touching the metal plate?

With the playfield up where you can watch the coils, try manually dropping the wall, then doing wall up then follow with wall down in the test and see if there's any arcing or sparking to indicate a grounding or short.

#15 4 years ago

I pulled the wall target assembly and the wires on the small coil dont appear to be touching any metal. No sparks when I run the solenoid test. I pulled fuse 105 and I can get the wall target down to work in test since it is on 104. When I put the fuse back in the large solenoid fires when testing the wall down.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

I pulled the wall target assembly and the wires on the small coil dont appear to be touching any metal. No sparks when I run the solenoid test. I pulled fuse 105 and I can get the wall target down to work in test since it is on 104. When I put the fuse back in the large solenoid fires when testing the wall down.

Did you drop the target and then try manually firing every other coil EXCEPT 8 and 16 and see if any others cause the target up coil to fire, too?

#17 4 years ago

it seems to be firing with every coil

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

it seems to be firing with every coil

Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

So is it firing with literally every other coil, or only most of them? Make a note of which coils also fire the wall up coil at the same time, but test each of the other coils - don't skip any.

Also, when was the last time you changed the batteries? Was this power driver board ever damaged from battery leakage?

#20 4 years ago

Im glad were getting somewhere. Thanks for your patience with me. I tested each coil, and the wall target up fires with each one in the solenoid test. I moved the batteries off the board about a year ago. There is no acid damage that I can see, and I assume you mean the cpu board not the power driver board.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

Im glad were getting somewhere. Thanks for your patience with me. I tested each coil, and the wall target up fires with each one in the solenoid test. I moved the batteries off the board about a year ago. There is no acid damage that I can see, and I assume you mean the cpu board not the power driver board.

Right, CPU board. When you moved the batteries off the CPU board, were they leaking or the ends of the holder corroded?

So ALL the other solenoids fire the wall up, but the wall up and other solenoids don't fire any other solenoids?

Check the diode D28 on the power driver board to see if it's shorted open.

#22 4 years ago

There is no corrosion that I can see on the battery holder. When The drop target is disconnected all the solenoids fire like they should. When its connected the wall up solenoid fires in test mode for all the others. I checked D28 and it tests ok. I could just replace it this weekend.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

There is no corrosion that I can see on the battery holder. When The drop target is disconnected all the solenoids fire like they should. When its connected the wall up solenoid fires in test mode for all the others. I checked D28 and it tests ok. I could just replace it this weekend.

If it's not that diode and there's no battery damage, the only thing that comes to mind is IC at U5.

#24 4 years ago

Thanks for your help. I may have to have the cpu board tested to see if thats the problem

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

Thanks for your help. I may have to have the cpu board tested to see if thats the problem

You might want to also try reseating the ribbon cables between the CPU board and power driver board.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

Thanks for your help. I may have to have the cpu board tested to see if thats the problem

Actually, it just dawned on me you have another WPC-S machine with the same power driver board in your collection, Theatre of Magic. If you still have that, you can swap in the power driver board from that (NOT the CPU board) and see if that solves the problem, narrowing down further where the problem is. Just take multiple pictures of the connectors before you remove them from ToM and Shadow so you can connect everything up when you make the swap, test, and then swap back.

That will give you an answer in about 10-15 minutes it takes to do the board swap.

#27 4 years ago

I tried reseating the ribbon cables, I may try switching them from the TOM and see if that helps then I will swap out the power driver board this weekend when I have a little more time.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

I tried reseating the ribbon cables, I may try switching them from the TOM and see if that helps then I will swap out the power driver board this weekend when I have a little more time.

The power driver board swap will narrow it down the fastest. Let me know what you find out.

1 week later
#29 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

I tried reseating the ribbon cables, I may try switching them from the TOM and see if that helps then I will swap out the power driver board this weekend when I have a little more time.

Did you swap the power driver board? Did it fix the issue?

#30 4 years ago

Swapped the power driver board today and the problem continues to be the same.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

Swapped the power driver board today and the problem continues to be the same.

Okay, so it's likely somewhere in the wiring. That's progress.

Disconnect J127 which is all the low power solenoids. Then test solenoids 9-16. Do any of them also trigger the Wall up solenoid while J127 is unplugged?

#32 4 years ago

they are all triggering the wall up with J127 unplugged

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

they are all triggering the wall up with J127 unplugged

Power off.

On the connector, use a multimeter to check for continuity between J107 pin2 and J107 pin3

#34 4 years ago

i have continuity between 2 and 3

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

i have continuity between 2 and 3

Hmm. Remove the fuses F103 and F104. Try testing solenoids 9-16 again. Does the Wall target reset for any of them?

#36 4 years ago

i removed fuse 104 and the wall up target still fires with 9-16. You repeated fuse 104 twice do you want me to take out another fuse with 104?

#37 4 years ago

I took out 103 and 104 and it still fires with 9-16

#38 4 years ago

Just for laughs i tested the flashers and it fires with all of the flashers also.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

i removed fuse 104 and the wall up target still fires with 9-16. You repeated fuse 104 twice do you want me to take out another fuse with 104?

Yeah, I meant 103 and 104. You have to have both of those fuses out while testing 9-16 solenoids to see if wall up still fires. Were both fuses out at the same time when you tested 9-16?

#40 4 years ago

yes both fuses out

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

yes both fuses out

If you swapped in the ToM power driver board and it still does it, that means the problem isn't on the Shadow power driver board, then.

By taking out the fuses from the low power and the flashers that means there isn't some kind of voltage cross.

So it HAS to be a short on the Drive wires, but it's weird that it's across ALL solenoid drive wires. I can't think of a point where they would all be vulnerable together. That's behavoir that would make me think there's a chip issue, but that would be on the power driver board, and you swapped that with ToM and it still does it, so that's eliminated.

#42 4 years ago

im stumped on this one. If I disconnect the wall solenoid I can play the game I just dont get the cool ball lock.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

im stumped on this one. If I disconnect the wall solenoid I can play the game I just dont get the cool ball lock.

Maybe a messed up grounding issue, too.

Had you worked on the machine at all in the days or weeks before this happened? Raised the playfield?

#44 4 years ago

Bad diode on that coil ..if it has one?

#45 4 years ago

no when things started going bad I narrowed it down to that coil by trial and error then replaced the coil, there is no diode on it. That didn't fix the problem.

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

no when things started going bad I narrowed it down to that coil by trial and error then replaced the coil, there is no diode on it. That didn't fix the problem.

Yeah, I didn't think that would help because of the way the coils are driven. It's not like the switch matrix. Since you swapped power driver boards and it didn't help, the power driver board is ruled out.

Can you take a nice picture of the CPU board from about halfway to the bottom where the switches connect? You might have to do two pictures as the battery holder will probably cast a shadow and/or block view of the full board from certain angles.

#47 4 years ago

I have the batteries off the board so they wont get in the way.

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#48 4 years ago

Is that a stock power driver board or a rottendog next to the CPU board? It looks like a rottendog...

Also, I wasn't sure if you answered if you were working on the machine or had raised the playfield recently before this started happening.

Also have you tried reseating the two chips at the top of the CPU board? The one with the warranty note on it and the one with electrical tape on it below.

#49 4 years ago

that is a rottendog board and i dont believe I was working on the game at the time it went wonky

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from waynoid:

that is a rottendog board and i dont believe I was working on the game at the time it went wonky

Is the ToM board a Rottendog, too?

They are problematic.

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