Oh jeez... That's a toughie. I own and love my Shadow. But I'd also love to have a whitewater in the stable.

Between the two, as a player, I prefer Shadow, but WW is a damn fine deck in its own right.

The pin-hoarder in me says get both!

As far as gameplay, Shadow...as a complete package, WH2O.

I feel like shadow has a lot more to do on it. WH20 is just brutal. I feel like the sounds on shadow are so much better and if you add the alternate translite, it edges out WH20 by a bit. You can't go wrong with either game though.

WH20 is fun but too easy. I would go with Shadow. Its deeper, faster, better layout and IMO an all around better game.

Hey,

I bought The Shadow as my first DMD. I bought and sold WhiteWater, Twilight Zone, and two Williams Indiana Jones, and Shadow was still here. Those four left, and The Shadow was still there.

Luke

I think the Shadow has better longevity in a collection from a player's perspective. WH2O is more approachable for the casual player though. Both great pins, but the Shadow is a better deal for the going price these days. If they were priced evenly it may be a different story.

To me WH20 is really a bad game. I fail to see why people enjoy it. Had a chance to buy one for $2,400 recently and passed. Shadow has more to do. I own one now.

Own both. Both never leaving.

Owned WH20 for around 6 months. It became boring pretty fast. I may own another some day but I have many other pins ahead of it on the want list.

WH2O is the better game of the two, with more variety of stuff to accomplish, and way better music. Non pinheads will certainly enjoy it more as it has better ways of rewarding shots.

But if you want a totally brutal game with short ball times, Shadow is your game. Being part of the 'holy trinity' (MM, AFM, Shadow), you will be 1/3 of the way through the group.

Can't go wrong with either game!

Whitewater stayed 2 months. Shadow has been here two years and is not leaving.

You think the music on WH20 is better than Shadow? It's like cheesy midi.

The music on white water is just meh. Shadow was good music, the callouts sound way better. Callouts on WH20 sound like they were processed through gravel.
I find my ball times on shadow to be about average for me. It is a brutal game if you make bad shots though.

You can definitely have some quick games on Shadow. It has to be the toughest game I have played. As far as choosing between the two they are both great games. They are so different from each other that you cannot fairly compare them. I own a Shadow and would to like to put a WH2O next it some day.

The SOUNDS are better in shadow.

But the music is WAAAAAY better in WH2O. You will notice that as you progress in the game, the music changes with each advancement, speeding up, building tension.

The music at the beginning of WH20 is some of the worst music ever in a pinball. However, by the end it's MUCH better. But at the beginning, ugh.

Shadow. A game that I have owned twice, and now is here to stay. WH2O is fun to play at someone elses house, but I have no desire to own it. But as always, different strokes for different folks.

Honestly, just buy both games.

They both will keep you entertained for a long time.

"Had a chance to buy one for $2,400 recently and passed."

Yeah, sure you did...

Two of Williams' best from the 90's. Can't go wrong with either. Buy both if you can. I've owned both for years and both would be amongst the last to leave my collection.

Think what you want. I will not lose any sleep over it.

Shadow is a far superior game. Deeper, and better rules, better theme. WH20 doesn't suck, but shadow is a top contender due to many factors. Plus it's much harder. If your not that good of a player, Shadow is going to be more frustrating. If you like challenge, your going to love it.

Flip a coin.....
Both top 10 games for me and you can't go wrong either way. The jackpot set up feels very similar on both games.

I like Wh20 more; Shadow is solid game though.
I feel like if you asked which one is harder you might get a 50/50 split.

Ditto!

this is why the Poll was invented.

Congrats. You couldn't lose either way in my opinion. Both pins are very good in their own right.

Good on you man!

Now go play some pin.

You won't be sorry, love that pin.

Years ago I actually bought a package deal of Wh2o and Shadow. Shadow became my favorite game and even in my decent size collection is probably still my fav. Wh2o was kinda irritating. Hated the music and the sounds. The playfield is pretty claustrophobic, although it can be fun to hit combos. The whirlpool and insanity falls ramp from the upper flipper is cool, but this was a game I held onto until I got the vacation jackpot and then quickly unloaded.

As hard as Shadow is, I found Wh2o much more unforgiving. No ball save and lots of tight spaces that reject the ball back at you. To me, comparing these games is absolutely no contest.

I think this is what I dislike most about whitewater. I hate how that kickout is so inconsistent. It just makes the game stressful as opposed to fun. Even thinking about it makes me angry.

I once traded Shadow for Whitewater and was happy that I did. Shadow is a great game but the playfield and sound calls get old. Whitewater never gets old to me and is really a cool layout. Both are worth owning but Whitewater is the keeper to me.

WH2O has ball save. There is a big splash, then the dog barks to grab your attention.

Depending on the Rom version.
EDIT: Much harder on location

Kick-backs are a privilege, not a right

EDIT: Unless you mean the mine kickout which I've always found pretty consistant

I suppose Shadow is deeper, but WW is also just a damn charming arcade artifact to have around. It basically elicits a smile every time you glace at it somehow, it's so over the top comic. The Shadow is a bit like having an Alec Baldwin poster on your wall. Hmmm...

I never played one with a ball save, but I can't see it would change my opinion of the game at all.

I think he's talking about the inconsistent kickOUT from the mine rather than the kickBACK in the left outlane.

The home roms added a ball save and made the hold bonus hold the river level, which really makes it a lot easier.
I think a TON of people don' t play with the home ROMs (obviously location players) as so many people constantly complain aboot having to shoot the ramps 100 times to get a level 6 river class.

I would have been one of the ones feeling that way. I had no idea there was a home ROM. I probably sold my game before that came out. Holding the raft level would definitely make the game a lot easier. I still don't like the congested playfield. Way too cluttered for my taste. On the positive side, the factory waterfall topper looks really sweet when working, so I guess I have something good to say about the game.

If the Mine is inconsistent It's time for a rebuild.

New cap, sleeve, shaft will put it back to throwing it up the right lane again.

Sure sure...not every game is for everyone.

Yeah I've always felt it's pretty stable.

Easy to enough to fix.

Classic example of a backglass to bad I love it now. If I had one I wouldn't even think of changing it!
Real RBION style there.

I don't mind it so much, when I visit a collector with the stock translite it's kinda fun, but I know where I stand on Baldwin.

235535.jpg

Hat tip to RonB and his Shadow restore!

Yeah it might mean more to me if I knew anything aboot the comic strip...to me it's just an Alec Baldwin movie so he's on it and I'm cool with that.

The home ROM, Version LH-6 is the bomb for WH2O. It fixes a lot of bugs and completes the software nicely. A lot of game were never updated to this. They all should be. Even if you turn off the ball saver.

=======

Home Version LH-6:

NOTE:
The LH-6 ROM is "free play only". It will not take money to do pay-for-play.
This is the "home version" of the latest commercial release L-5, and includes MANY changes, features, and upgrades. A listing of these is below.
Because of the extra software and features added in this version, the LH-6 ROM revision comes on a larger 8mb ROM chip. It will directly replace the smaller 4mb ROM chip used for previous versions- no circuit board modifications are required.

Changes since commercial version L-5:
New "Ball Save" feature added. This returns the ball to play if it is lost within the first few seconds of play (something not featured in earlier releases of software for this game). This feature can be adjusted from "Off", to anywhere from 1 to 10 seconds time. 3 seconds is the default value.

The timed "5X Playfield" (or "Five Times the Fun") mode now no longer counts down during the animation at the start of multiball. What this means is that if you are stacking (saving) multiball for the "5X Playfield" mode, you won't run down the timer of 5X while waiting for the multiball to start. More fun, more play, bigger points

Score display now shows correct 5X scores for making two, three, four, and five-way combos during "5X" mode.
Bonus Hold feature now works! After collecting Bonus Hold, there will be an extra "held bonus" countdown sequence in the normal bonus countdown at the end of the next ball. If you're on your last ball of the game, you'll get the regular bonus and the held bonus at the same time. Held bonus is added after counting the hazards, boulders, and rafts, but before the bonus is multiplied. So stacking the held bonus with higher multipliers (river classes) gives you bigger points. And River classes (2X, 3X, etc) will now not reset if bonus is held.

New playfield lighting effects added during bonus countdown sequence.

New playfield lighting effects added during start of "Man Overboard"
mode.

Bigfoot now occasionally "sympathizes" with you if you lose your last ball after having a good ball and scoring/playing well.

"Fade out" music added after game over/match sequence. The music plays for a little bit and then "fades out" like later model games do.

Occasional Bigfoot "scream" at game start, or addition of second, third, player, etc.

Occasional Bigfoot "scream" when the last ball drains through one of the outlanes.

High score initials will no longer reset if left/abandoned, and the mode times-out.

Vacation Planner status is no longer displayed during multiball modes.

Delay of about 1 second added to kickout from Lost Mine after No Way Out.

Playfield 10 point switches won't score points before the ball scores a main target or switch.

Bigfoot Hotfoot mode now correctly ends when game is tilted during mode.

Jet bumper values have now been corrected for multi-player games.

Bonus Hold value is now corrected for multi-player games.

Display effects added during bonus count mode.

Bonus Hold award added on successive ramp shots (6, 35, 65, 95).

River Class (bonus X) now no longer resets if bonus is held.

Camera Craze award is now awarded on loop shots.

Boomerang Bend right orbit shot is awarded if a slow ball exits through the Secret Passage. (Boomerang Bend hazard is awarded before Secret Passage is).

Total bonus display is now correctly shown in Status Report.

Bounce Back is correctly lit again at the start of multiball mode, even if Bounce Back is in the process of timing out.
Whirlpool Challenge display effects now show correct state when mode is started a second time during the same ball.

Ball kickback (Bounce Back) is now fired during the standard ball search mode.

Time remaining in modes (including 5X) are now paused while the ball is out of play, and during multiball start display/sound effects.

Grace period added for main multiball. Scoring a Jackpot during re-match will not cancel out the re-match.

Waterfall lights (on top of backbox) will now start again after a tilt occurs.

Game over lighting effects and music (fade-out) added at end of game.

I own both, Wh20 for me. Triple jackpots down insanity falls never gets boring.
Shadow is a brilliant game but the Farley Claymore mode lets it down for mine.