Yes.

Two things to add though -- The Shadow doesn't have pops, a HUGE turn off to casual people who are interested in pinball who think they need to be on every machine, and the ramp diverter stuff is just confusing until you have done it for a while.

I think that NBAFB is a very new player friendly game for the most part, but every time they hit the scoop and then don't know what to do as the game is going, "LOOK UP!! SHOOT THE BALL UP THERE!!" it reminds me that even simple stuff can be really confusing for people that don't play regularly. Shadow with the extra buttons is even more confusing.

The fact it commands the prices that it does is honestly a testament to the gameplay. JD, another great player in my opinion with similar issues (no pops, but I'd argue a slightly better theme) is worth a lot less...

I don't know if he's referring to pinheads or not, but a game needs a casual audience to love it too for it to really command the big bucks. MM and AFM are fun for everyone no matter the skill level or what, a game like the Shadow is definitely a more hardcore player.

I agree with your disagreement though Rob, even if not for the exact same reason. It definitely wouldn't be a top 5 pin. Biggest reason for me -- no pops. Again, so many people look at the pops as a big part of pinball, so having a game that is missing something that a lot of people think is the essence of the game will drive the price down.

I think that pops can totally break a game, and honestly while I have never played Shadow enough to really get a feel for it, I have always kind of wanted one because of the lack of pops.

For me, I most like my games where when the ball drains, it is because of something that I did wrong. I especially dislike when pop hits can lead to a drain (see TZ without the post, certain games that sometimes exit SDTM, etc) because when I make that shot, I'm taking a XX% shot that it will drain no matter what I do.

I do like exposed pops like you often saw on early SS games and EM games, as you can actually aim at them to try to make the ball do certain things.

Having said all that, most people who aren't big time pinball fans think that pinball machines have three main parts -- a plunger, some flippers, and some pop bumpers. Beyond that, they light up. Why? Because that is truly what most games have. I've heard it said before that Gary Stern believes both in the plunger and always having three pops in every machine they release, and honestly if that is the case, I think that he's a genius for it -- it's what most casual people look for, and judging by my collection, while I like games without pops, I clearly have no issue with games with pops.