(Topic ID: 320226)

shadow switch matrix shorts

By ForceFlow

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by ForceFlow
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

20220811182143008.jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
20220809230217957.jpg
20220809230231105.jpg
20220809230343260.jpg
20220809230527027.jpg
20220809230516976.jpg
#1 1 year ago

It's late & I'm tired, and I'm in a hurry to prep games for a show, so this is just a sanity check.

I've been working on a shadow. Did a bunch of repairs (replaced brick wall drop target, replaced plastic under left phurba ramp, replaced mini playfield IDC connector, fixed a pulled wire from another mini playfield connector, fixed disconnected wire from mongol target 52).

I was doing a final play test, everything went fine. Then I lifted the playfield, went to eject the balls, and row 4 shorted to gnd.

So, in switch test, all row 4 switches are closed.

If I try to activate any other switches, that entire row fires off all its switches.

With the switch connectors disconnected from the MPU, except for j205, no closed shorts in the edge test.

When I try to step through the rows & columns by jumping connector pins on the MPU, columns 1 & 2 fire off a bunch of switches. All other rows/columns only activate a single switch.

So, I'm assuming blown U20?

#2 1 year ago

Potential problem areas:

Mongol switch on the left side of the left phurba ramp. One of the wires was broken off. I'm assuming this was supposed to be the correct arrangement.

Battle drop target micro switch--diode with long leads may have shorted on bracket. I repositioned the diode so there's no danger of touching. Not my work--someone else installed that diode.

Left opto for left furba ramp. I put some mylar on the inside of the ball guide so that the wires/contacts of the opto wouldn't short on the ball guide.

20220809230231105.jpg20220809230231105.jpg20220809230343260.jpg20220809230343260.jpg20220809230516976.jpg20220809230516976.jpg20220809230527027.jpg20220809230527027.jpg20220809230217957.jpg20220809230217957.jpg
#3 1 year ago

Yes, replace U20 (and cross your fingers). Before testing, inspect previous work to see if solenoid voltage may have crossed those row wires somewhere causing U20 to blow.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Yes, replace U20 (and cross your fingers). Before testing, inspect previous work to see if solenoid voltage may have crossed those row wires somewhere causing U20 to blow.

I inspected everything, and that diode near the bracket was the only thing I didn't catch earlier.

#5 1 year ago

I replaced U20 (it was already socketed).

Column 2 was unresponsive when jumping the connector pins, but all other rows & columns worked.

I tried a second ULN2803 just in case the first replacement was faulty, but same result.

I would imagine something else in the board blew as well.

[edit]: I think I'll go ahead and replace U14 74LS374.

#6 1 year ago

Well, I desoldered u14 74LS374, put it in my chip tester, and the chip tested good.

I don't have a WPC-S MPU schematic handy, so I'm not sure what might be the next likely candidate.

#8 1 year ago

Bingo--U23 74HC4514 tested bad.

I'm not sure that it's a chip that I actually have on-hand. I'll have to double check.

#9 1 year ago

This U23 does not blow because of wrong wired switches but more because of high voltage coming against the switch matrix.

example here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jm-all-switches-closed-upon-start-up/page/2#post-3173757

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from zaza:

This U23 does not blow because of wrong wired switches but more because of high voltage coming against the switch matrix.
example here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jm-all-switches-closed-upon-start-up/page/2#post-3173757

I'll certainly take a closer look on what column 2 switches may contact a coil, but nothing immediately jumps out at me.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

In other news, it does not appear that I have a u23 chip.

Nor does it look like I have a wpc-s board I can swap in or steal u23 from. I do have quite a number of wpc89 mpus, which doesn't really help.

#11 1 year ago

Check also under the mini-playfield, this is where the wires are moving over a sharp edged guide. Wire insulation can be cut/damaged here.

#12 1 year ago

Continuity test between solenoid power and column 2 should tell you if the short is still there. Power off, everything plugged in. Short may happen when playfield is raised or lowered, so test in both positions (under playfield and at connectors).

#13 1 year ago

I know that none of these solutions will help you in the short term. They can prepare you for any potential future failure.

  • Ed carries the 74HC4514 but his store is not open and it probably would not arrive in time.
  • I bought a few of these from Ed and have never used them. Same deal though in that anything I send would not arrive in time.
  • I have a combination WPC-89 CPU board that supports standard and security as a single solution. A daughter board implementing the security PIC modifications needs to be installed on the base CPU board to support WPC-S. This is a great solution as a spare board that can be used in a pinch for WPC-89 and WPC-S.
#14 1 year ago

Look at the trough area, my JM had a similar problem it was the shooter lane coil.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I know that none of these solutions will help you in the short term. They can prepare you for any potential future failure.

Ed carries the 74HC4514 but his store is not open and it probably would not arrive in time.
I bought a few of these from Ed and have never used them. Same deal though in that anything I send would not arrive in time.
I have a combination WPC-89 CPU board that supports standard and security as a single solution. A daughter board implementing the security PIC modifications needs to be installed on the base CPU board to support WPC-S. This is a great solution as a spare board that can be used in a pinch for WPC-89 and WPC-S.

I ordered a few chips from marco with overnight shipping ($$$). Maybe they'll get here in time...who knows.

I probably have a couple hundred chips on-hand for doing repairs. Unfortunately, since I never needed to do any significant work on WPC-S MPUs, I never stocked up on any of the components specific to that board.

[edit]: The shipping label was printed. Tracking hasn't shown that fedex has it yet.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Look at the trough area, my JM had a similar problem it was the shooter lane coil.

I checked it, and it seems fine. No exposed wire on the coil, and the lugs don't seem to touch anything even when wiggling it around. However, as an extra precaution, I put some gaffers tape on the coil wrapper, and over the coil lugs.

Quoted from zaza:

Check also under the mini-playfield, this is where the wires are moving over a sharp edged guide. Wire insulation can be cut/damaged here.

I went over the wiring pretty well, but I didn't see anything cut/damaged/worn/frayed.

I even cut open the plastic sleeve on the coin door harness, but that wiring was fine too.

I wiggled each coil to see what the range of motion was, and none looked even close to touching anything with the eyelets or lugs.

I'm really not seeing any obvious areas that could be an issue.

The chips I ordered are "in transit". Whenever they get here, I'll pop one in and see what happens.

#17 1 year ago

Well, the package got here, but I got the wrong chips...
20220811182143008.jpg20220811182143008.jpg

Marco's product photo shows the 2.54mm chip, not these wider ones.

#18 1 year ago

herbertbsharp was kind enough to supply an MPU, which had the chip socketed. Thanks Herb!

The game fired right up, played fine, and didn't seem to develop any shorts. So, hopefully, it will last the duration of the show.

#19 1 year ago

Well, the game lasted a full day at a show without incident. If a game can survive a show, I consider that a win.

Thanks guys

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 5.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 29.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Pleasanton, CA
$ 58.00
Lighting - Interactive
Pinball Mod Co.
 
$ 16.00
Playfield - Other
Slap Save Creations
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
 
5,800 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Thornton, CO
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Aurora, IL
€ 8.50
Flipper Parts
Pin-Decals
 
$ 78.50
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Haus
 
$ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Mod Co.
 
$ 69.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
€ 47.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PPmods
 
$ 259.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
€ 8.50
Flipper Parts
Pin-Decals
 
€ 38.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PPmods
 
$ 54.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 17.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 22.50
Electronics
bdash's bits
 
4,999
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
€ 47.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PPmods
 
From: $ 35.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Invasion
 
$ 65.00
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 43.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Mod Co.
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/shadow-switch-matrix-shorts and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.