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(Topic ID: 79828)

Shadow or RFM - Poll added


By shimoda

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 54 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by fosaisu
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“Shadow or RFM”

  • Shadow 65 votes
    68%
  • RFM 31 votes
    32%

(96 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

Looking for some thoughts here. Been wanting an RFM for a bit now, love the play, think it would be a great game to add some flow to my collection and have enjoyed playing it lately. However, just played Shadow for the first time and think it is pretty fun and challenging as well. Both are roughly the same condition and price so thoughts?

Additional info, collection is tspp, dw, bc, es, and close encounters, just now adding a Top Score (EM) and EBD-LE (though I have to get it running) and will also be bringing in a Flash Gordon for restoration. Likely the CEOTK, Top Score or EBD will be out the door to bring in RFM or Shadow.

#3 6 years ago

Do you already have the line on the Shadow? If so grab it. You'll have zero trouble moving it later if you want, I know like 5 people looking for one right now. You might not want to let it go though, it's a really great game.

RFM does zero for me, I'm not a Pin2K fan. But they're really easy to come by, people dump them all the time after getting tired of it, so if you regret your choice you could sell the Shadow and get an RFM without any problems.

#4 6 years ago

Pick whichever one you want more. To me this one is simple: The Shadow because it is a great playing Brian Eddy game. RFM gets old REALLY fast as does the P2000 format in general. Not to mention it weighs a ton and is a pain to move.

#5 6 years ago

Same price? That is either an expensive shadow or cheap RFM.

I liek them both but they are entirely different. I would take RFM due to unique and funny. Great flow and all non-pinheads love it so it is great in a 5plus game collection and helps bring in new people.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Same price? That is either an expensive Shadow or cheap RFM.
I liek them both but they are entirely different. I would take RFM due to unique and funny. Great flow and all non-pinheads love it so it is great in a 5plus game collection and helps bring in new people.

So what do you think is a good range for either, of course understanding that price is deternmined partly by location, partly by condition, and partly by need to move a machine.

#7 6 years ago

The Shadow. I love mine and am not letting it go anytime soon.

#8 6 years ago

I've owned both. Not to say that RFM isn't a good game, but it doesn't give me that "pinball" experience. Something about the holograms, the shortened playfield (I know it's not much shorter than a normal one but it feels like it since you can't see the back), and the fact that you can get very far in the game by just shooting up the middle.

I had my girlfriend play it for her first time (on default settings) and she got through all the modes and fought the mother-ship on her second ball. She ended her game with a ridiculous score like 10 minutes later (too many extra balls). The person I sold it to said the same thing - the day after I sold it to him he called me up and asked "I just fought the mother-ship, is it supposed to be this easy?" I know it's much harder to get to Attack Mars but I just felt unmotivated every attempt to get there.

Shadow I have also sold in the past, but I regretted it immensely after I discovered no game really compared. It has tough shots, really cool diverter ramps (never seen anywhere else in pinball) great mini-pf, awesome flow... it's the perfect balance of frustration, and fun. You have to earn what you get in Shadow and it makes you a better player.

Needless to say, Shadow came home again after finding one (difficult) and to this day I have no desire to play another game of RFM.

#9 6 years ago

SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW SHADOW

#10 6 years ago

Shadow $2500-3000 depending on condition if it's decent. A lot of wear or issues could put it lower, but a good one is going to be in that range.

#11 6 years ago

Shadow by a mile, imo.

#12 6 years ago

I didn't know so many people dislike P2K. RFM is a great game. WMS was trying to attract video gamers to pinball with P2K, so extra balls are earned by reaching scoring levels (if you think these are too low just reset them higher) and bonus round multiballs (including mothership multiball) are reached after every third game mode. But the game's Drive-In Demolition mode is spectacular for the black-and-white "It Came from Uranus" movie playing on the drive-in screen (catch the ball and hold it on one flipper during this mode and watch the whole movie). I like The Shadow okay, but I had to own RFM (bought it NIB).

#13 6 years ago

Pinside will be highly based towards shadow largely due to the new excitement of the sweet new translite.
Shadow would be my choice for a 3 or less collection but it should be under 2500 no matter what! Any sanctum wear and you need to knock off another 300 easy. Go look at ebay sales from last year and they avg under 2600. Private sale and no fees shuld be less than ebay in all circumstances.

Id take RFM in a collection of 5+ everyday of the week just due to pure amazing uniqueness and great theming plus great comedy.
RFM at 2500 is a good deal and less than the recent private sales on here. If you can be under 3k for RFM you are doing better than a 2500 Shadow. Ebay sales show 3200 from last year for avg RFM.

Ebay sales are nothing but a general indicator but are nice for comparisons sakes.

#14 6 years ago

I think they're both awesome games and I'll agree with the others, if space allows, get 'em both. RFM gets the nod in my house for two reasons--getting to the "attack mars" stage has proven to be elusive for me so far. It's pretty hard, for me anyway, to get 9 saucer lights on normal settings. But the real reason RFM stays is because my little daughter plays it more than any other pin we've had. She's almost 6 and her favorite mode is Martian Happy Hour. I hope that doesn't spell trouble...

#15 6 years ago

You mention wanting to add flow to your collection and nothing will do this better then the shadow. No pops and a seven shot combo, it just doesn't get any better.

If you add pins to your collection by committee ie with and kids then rfm will be the ring loud by the vox populi but if you have sovereignty and your primary concern is game play then the shadow is the go'er.

Shadow is a tough tough player and the wizard mode is even tougher. Rfm not so much but it does have humour going for it and being one of two does that diversity to a stable.

Expect sanctum wear when buying shadow and possibly go the nu core on rfm depending on how long you keep your planks.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

I didn't know so many people dislike P2K. RFM is a great game.

I just straight up don't enjoy playing it. I suspect it's a polarizing title in that regard. I don't begrudge anyone else enjoying it, but I wouldn't keep it in my collection (my max right now is 5) even if I was given it for free. It's not some kind of "it's not real pinball!" or anything like that, I just find it tiring to play really quickly. I was playing one set to 5 balls, and honestly I just wanted to drain by ball 5 so I could walk away.

Shadow is a "one more game" in contrast.

I'm touched that anyone is excited about it over my translite, but for me it's really about that fact that it's a great game. It's challenging, unique, fun (that's important!), the music and sounds are great. Really the only thing that was a ding on it was Baldwin, but obviously there's a fix for that now if you want, so hey.

#17 6 years ago

To dispell invalid rumors of being worries about pin2K CPUs, they just do not seem to fail that often (esp in the home environment). I am guessing ones that failed were on route and not maintained well >> the CPU fan went bad, the operator did not fix it, the CPU overheated (liek any CPU without fans would).

I have been on the forums regularly for over 2 years and not seen a single pin2k CPU issue. Keep in mind that nucore has been out of business for a while now and there is not so much money in it that they have shown incentive to get back in the game. That alone is telling. Nucore is great but obviously was not making too much otherwise they would be finding a way to still do it.

#18 6 years ago

No contest..... the shadow

I have tried to like RFM ( and swe1) but just cant get into them

#19 6 years ago

I like RFM because its fun and I haven't played it that many times but it doesn't really feel like real pinball to me. Shadow on the other hand is a great game and very challenging. I have only gotten to Final Battle one time in the 8 or 9 months I have owned one. Definitely go with shadow especially for the same price. If you want to sell it down the road, you can probably sell it 5 times in a day.

#20 6 years ago

The Shadow ftw. RFM is fun but I don't know if I would want to own it. If I got a good deal, I think I would get it expecting to trade it later at some point but I don't know what to say about that. Are there that many pinballs games that would hold your interest for more than a year? If you have kids, they would probably find RFM a blast, though.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Shadow would be my choice for a 3 or less collection but it should be under 2500 no matter what! Any sanctum wear and you need to knock off another 300 easy.

As a recent buyer of a Shadow, I don't think you're going to find a < $2,500 Shadow with no sanctum wear on Pinside (or eBay). I spent the fall and winter following pricing and sales and never saw that to be even close to the case. Of course that may be as much as you'd be willing to spend for The Shadow, but I think that also means you won't be getting the game anytime in the immediate future unless you stumble onto a bargain.

#22 6 years ago

I know of 2 right now that I could buy for under 2500 and 1 of those 2 has only the slightest hint of sanctum wear (more like sanctum brusiing hahaha).

here is a recent ebay sale for 2350 last november. minimal sanctum wear.

ebay.com link » Shadow Pin Ball Machine By Bally Nov 1994 All Manuals And Documentation

Take off for local cash purchase and this should be all the evidence you need for real people value

#23 6 years ago

I'm wondering if the discrepancies in pricing that we're discussing aren't just regional differences. In general pins tend to be on the cheaper side in my neck of the woods than they do in, say, California.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I know of 2 right now that I could buy for under 2500 and 1 of those 2 has only the slightest hint of sanctum wear (more like sanctum brusiing hahaha).
here is a recent ebay sale for 2350 last november. minimal sanctum wear.
ebay.com link » Shadow Pin Ball Machine By Bally Nov 1994 All Manuals And Documentation
Take off for local cash purchase and this should be all the evidence you need for real people value

Funny I have been looking for awhile and haven't found any for sale.

Until now. but not for under $2500 at this point. It is becoming a popular title.

#25 6 years ago

Looks like you can get a RFM and SWE1 for under $2700

ebay.com link » Revenge From Mars Pinball Machine

#26 6 years ago

Shadow. I own it and won't sell it.
I like RFM and wouldn't mind owning one for a while but it is relatively easy, even for me. Non-pinheads like it but since they rarely play at my house, I don't care.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I know of 2 right now that I could buy for under 2500 and 1 of those 2 has only the slightest hint of sanctum wear (more like sanctum brusiing hahaha).
here is a recent ebay sale for 2350 last november. minimal sanctum wear.
ebay.com link » Shadow Pin Ball Machine By Bally Nov 1994 All Manuals And Documentation
Take off for local cash purchase and this should be all the evidence you need for real people value

Sold for $3795 this month. ebay.com link » Midway The Shadow Arcade Pinball Machine

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I know of 2 right now that I could buy for under 2500 and 1 of those 2 has only the slightest hint of sanctum wear (more like sanctum brusiing hahaha).

If you're willing to share you should post about them in my translite thread:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-shadow-new-original-alternate-translite-speaker-panel-cards

People there are actively looking for the Shadows.

#29 6 years ago

I got my shadow for 2600 on eBay, I was a little worried not being able to see it in person but it showed up in better condition than I thought it would. just a small divot by the sanctum which I'm fixing now . but great game,
I also changed the flipper rubber to the purple super bands, there a little stiffer but it has increased my accuracy of shots by about 20%.

#30 6 years ago

Shadow...absolutely brilliant and long overlooked pin - now finding love (and ever increasing prices!)....

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Looks like you can get a RFM and SWE1 for under $2700
ebay.com link » Revenge From Mars Pinball Machine

That was for ONLY a SWEP1 pf in a RFM cab.

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That was for ONLY a SWEP1 pf in a RFM cab.

Nope it says 2 games in 1 in the ad. Also 2 CPUs (assuming the prism cards). Read the description.

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If you're willing to share you should post about them in my translite thread:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-shadow-new-original-alternate-translite-speaker-panel-cards
People there are actively looking for the Shadows.

not wiling to share. I hope to have the cash at somepoint to eventually buy one of them.

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

not wiling to share. I hope to have the cash at somepoint to eventually buy one of them.

Cool. But guess what, your mystery machines that are apparently secrets and able to stay available until you can afford them don't really mean a whole lot to the general market.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

not wiling to share. I hope to have the cash at somepoint to eventually buy one of them.

Since you seem to think they are widely available at <2,500 then why are you scared to let the info on these two out? When that "somepoint" comes you should easily be able to find another one, correct? Why not give it to someone that has the cash ready now and has been wanting one?

I personally know of two pin-friends that spent close to the 3k mark for their Shadows after searching forever and were glad they could actually find one.

#36 6 years ago

Have both, RFM is soon to be on the chopping block

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Nope it says 2 games in 1 in the ad. Also 2 CPUs (assuming the prism cards). Read the description.

Seems odd since not a single picture of the RFM pf in the ad. Bad ads without pictures of actual games are good to look for on a good price.

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from Galdaien:

Since you seem to think they are widely available at <2,500 then why are you scared to let the info on these two out? When that "somepoint" comes you should easily be able to find another one, correct? Why not give it to someone that has the cash ready now and has been wanting one?
I personally know of two pin-friends that spent close to the 3k mark for their Shadows after searching forever and were glad they could actually find one.

I am not 'scared' to let the info out, LOL.

Sorry, but I have and do pass along lots of good deals and many pinsiders can vouch for it as I have passed along games to people for substainally under market and some peoepl have actually done the same for me. I don't share all the games I find because they will be substaintially less than 2500 if things work out like they should eventually. As I said, one of them I could trade my less than 2k SG for. Why the hell should I tell someone I do not personally know about a good deal just to see them turn around and sell it for more cash in a short time?

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

As I said, one of them I could trade my less than 2k SG for. Why the hell should I tell someone I do not personally know about a good deal just to see them turn around and sell it for more cash in a short time?

Must have missed that? First time you said it in this thread, at least. And it's good and fine to keep a deal like that to yourself, but if you are telling the world Shadow's are <2,500 and you can get one for that money easily, but then say you don't want to share the deals you found because it's too good to pass on because after "things work out" it should be less than $2,500... Then go on to say that you don't want someone else to buy it and sell it for more cash (even though they can only get at MAX $2,500?) it gets kinda confusing to follow. Maybe it should read "Yeah, if you find an awesome deal, you can get one for <2,500 but it will take a lot of working things out."

Whatever the case, I know you contribute just trying to follow your logic.

#40 6 years ago

I am looking for one for my collection. Even bought Aurich's alternative package already in advance!

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I know of 2 right now that I could buy for under 2500 and 1 of those 2 has only the slightest hint of sanctum wear (more like sanctum brusiing hahaha).
here is a recent ebay sale for 2350 last november. minimal sanctum wear.
ebay.com link » Shadow Pin Ball Machine By Bally Nov 1994 All Manuals And Documentation
Take off for local cash purchase and this should be all the evidence you need for real people value

That eBay sale is interesting, looks like a good price but I didn't see anything in the listing about the sanctum wear or condition of the game at all (other than "great playing condition") [EDIT, saw additional pics available by clicking link, looks like average Sanctum wear to me but certainly better than some you'll see]. I also notice that the seller had zero feedback. Doesn't mean it wasn't legit, but would raise red flags for non-local buyers (me for example) and might help keep the price down.

Anyway, glad to hear you've got the opportunity to get multiple Shadows at what to me sound like quite cheap prices. You should get that Stargate trade done ASAP though, even using your assesment of The Shadow's value that sounds like a killer deal ...

#42 6 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

That eBay sale is interesting, looks like a good price but I didn't see anything in the listing about the sanctum wear or condition of the game at all (other than "great playing condition"). I also notice that the seller had zero feedback. Doesn't mean it wasn't legit, but would raise red flags for non-local buyers (me for example) and might help keep the price down.
Anyway, glad to hear you've got the opportunity to get multiple Shadows at what to me sound like quite cheap prices. You should get that Stargate trade done ASAP though, even using your assesment of The Shadow's value that sounds like a killer deal ...

There was also no cabinet pics. Somebody probably got a good deal on one though.

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Looking for some thoughts here. Been wanting an RFM for a bit now, love the play, think it would be a great game to add some flow to my collection and have enjoyed playing it lately. However, just played Shadow for the first time and think it is pretty fun and challenging as well. Both are roughly the same condition and price so thoughts?
Additional info, collection is tspp, dw, bc, es, and close encounters, just now adding a Top Score (EM) and EBD-LE (though I have to get it running) and will also be bringing in a Flash Gordon for restoration. Likely the CEOTK, Top Score or EBD will be out the door to bring in RFM or Shadow.

Don't buy a game based a poll. By the game you want to buy. Everyone has different taste but it matters what you like and what you want to play in your collection. I really don't think you will go wrong with either game. If you have been wanting a RFM for awhile, I would get one.

#44 6 years ago

The poll is more to gauge others thoughts than to decide based on poll. I do find it interesting how many people are put off by RFM. Another interesting thing in this comparison is that while many clearly wouldn't choose RFM in this circumstance, not many have said they really don't like The Shadow. I really like RFM and think it would be fun to have, especially for others, and I feel like it can be fast with a sort of flow. I've played Shadow twice now and like a challenging game.

It kind of boils down to what I want in the collection and really I think I want both but have to choose. I agree I've seen more RFMs pop up for sale this last year than Shadows so don't think I'll have trouble moving it if I don't like it. I do worry that RFM will get old after a month or so, but that might be said for many games. If I don't get an RFM now, I'm sure I'll get one at some point, or not. There are a couple of games I really thought I'd want, until playing them in person (not TPA or Visual Pinball or whatnot). Some were good examples of the games too - F-14, Getaway (though I should probably put more time on the latter).

#45 6 years ago

It's been quite a while since I last played shadow so I don't really feel like I can compare the two. But I can say that if you open up the orbit gate and ball capture RFM has a lot of flow and can be punishingly fast.

#46 6 years ago
Quoted from jamespin:

I am looking for one for my collection. Even bought Aurich's alternative package already in advance!

I did the same!

#47 6 years ago

I would like to say I am surprised that pinside thinks Shadow typically goes for over 2500 in real life when the avg ebay sales for last year were 2583 and I provided a clear example of just 3 months back of a nice looking ebay one in prime pinball area for 2350... At the same time everyone talks about the pinball market has leveled off and many titles have dropped but so many defenders of TS price... just seems like bizarro land.

I am not sure why everyone thinks this is a 2500plus game unless you are trying to justify a purchase or pump a future sale. Sorry, but the data speaks to the opposite.

9 sold on ebay on 2013 and avg price of those 9 was 2583. That means roughly half were less and half were more. I don't know about you but I have never paid ebay prices for a game yet... A logical person would at minimum knock off the paypal and ebay fees to determine a high water mark if a local sale. That would bring the 9 public data points from last year below 2500. Where is everyone coming up with over 2500? Who the hell is paying 3k for TS?

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

You should get that Stargate trade done ASAP though, even using your assesment of The Shadow's value that sounds like a killer deal ...

I like TS, but currnetly like SG better so the deal does not seem so good to me. It would likely be worth it for me to go find another SG and trade that one

#49 6 years ago

I have owned both and without a doubt SHADOW!!!!!

#50 6 years ago

I voted Shadow, but Revenge is interesting when you think about Haunted Cruise and other potential projects....

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