(Topic ID: 152728)

Shadow down after installing ColorDmD

By jgentry

8 years ago


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  • 44 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by stevevt
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

I recently picked up a really nice TS that was playing fine. This morning I installed a colorDMD which went fine as always. They are really easy to install. After a couple of minutes the display went dark. I power cycled the game and it would not start a game and the flashers were out. I pulled the translite and speaker panel and the power driver board showed the game had booted and it was going through attract mode. I tested all of the fuses on the main board and the top left fuse was blown. Simple problem, I replaced it and the game worked again. I noticed a bulb had fallen out so I turned off the game, pulled the glass to fix the bulb. After that I turned the game on and once again the display is out and it won't start a game. I figured the fuse was blown again but the fuse is fine. I assume the extra power draw from the colorDMD blew something on the board? Anyone have any advice on were to start looking for the issue?

Thanks for any help!

#2 8 years ago

Bridge rectifier?

#3 8 years ago

Check seating of all ribbon cables including the short one that runs from the MPU to the power driver board.

#4 8 years ago

Fuses typically don't blow without a reason. Grab the manual, find out what the fuse was protecting, could be a clue as to what's wrong.

Quoted from jgentry:

I tested all of the fuses on the main board and the top left fuse was blown. Simple problem, I replaced it and the game worked

#5 8 years ago

I believe the Color DMD draws LESS power than a stock DMD.

#6 8 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

I believe the Color DMD draws LESS power than a stock DMD.

FAR less

#7 8 years ago

This is correct but it draws it from a different location so while it is less overall it is still adding to the load in the new location.

#8 8 years ago

So I got up this morning and hooked the old DMD up so I could trouble shoot a little since it gets power from a different location. It is giving several errors and saying to check 3 fuses which all test good on the meter. I also noticed that the top left led on the power driver board next to fuse J116 is out so that area is definately the problem. I'm not really experienced with board repairs so I'm not sure we're to go next.

Is the power driver board the same on all WPC games? I also have a CFTBL and WH20 that I thought I might be able to take the power driver board out of and put in TS to see if it works. Good idea? Or am I just going to have 2 boards with issues?

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#9 8 years ago

Have you tried to contact ColorDMD, they are usually very helpful and have most likely seen this if it was caused by the color DMD install.

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Have you tried to contact ColorDMD, they are usually very helpful and have most likely seen this if it was caused by the color DMD install.

I haven't because it likely has nothing to do with the colorDMD. Most likely something on the board that was about to fail that the colorDMD install nudged over the edge. I have colordmds on all of my other WPC games with no issues.

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Have you tried to contact ColorDMD, they are usually very helpful and have most likely seen this if it was caused by the color DMD install.

Well they already showed up in this thread so...

#12 8 years ago

You lost your regulated 12V. Could be bridge BR1, could be regulator Q2. Do you have 18V at TP8?

In earlier games (Shadow is newer than a lot of games I've seen this in, but maybe its time has come) C2 leaks and destroys traces at C2 and Q2.

Any other WPC driver (not WPC95) will work fine for testing. There's a chance you'll do the same to a different board depending on cause, but I'm betting you'll be OK.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#13 8 years ago

Yeah, propbably what Borygard says. The colorDMD maybe draws less power than the plasma DMD, but the plasma has its very own PSU with high voltage, while the color dmd draws off the 12V regulated PSU. If the bridge rectifiers and capacitor of this 12V rail where already on the end of their lives, the color dmd can push these components over the edge. The fuse blowing was the first hint.

This causes all manner of things to stop working, mainly opto's, motors, and I believe flashers as well.

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

You lost your regulated 12V. Could be bridge BR1, could be regulator Q2. Do you have 18V at TP8?
In earlier games (Shadow is newer than a lot of games I've seen this in, but maybe its time has come) C2 leaks and destroys traces at C2 and Q2.
Any other WPC driver (not WPC95) will work fine for testing. There's a chance you'll do the same to a different board depending on cause, but I'm betting you'll be OK.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Thanks for all of the info. I believe this is starting to get above my current abilities though. There is someone local that does board repairs so I'll pop the power driver board out and drop it off. I think rather then risking more issues I'll just let it set until he can look at the board. I'll just have to go shadowless for a few days

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

You lost your regulated 12V

Quoted from FreeBee:

while the color dmd draws off the 12V regulated PSU.

Nah, you mean un-regulated, that is LED7, F116 and Br.5

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from brettybluevein:

Well they already showed up in this thread so...

I was trying to help, thanks for your input...VERY informative

#17 8 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Nah, you mean un-regulated, that is LED7, F116 and Br.5

zaza got it.
Change the fuse and see if it blows out again.

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

This is correct but it draws it from a different location so while it is less overall it is still adding to the load in the new location.

Right you are, just looked at the print for mine in my sttng, id say your 12vdc is NG like everyone else!

#19 8 years ago

The most likely problem at the moment is that F116 is blown again. Are you sure you tested it correctly? It needs to be removed from the game to test it with a DMM. Don't try to test it while in the circuit.

The ColorDMD will not normally blow F116 unless
(1) There are too many mods (ex. lighted toppers) connected to the unregulated 12V supply, or
(2) The ColorDMD power cable is inserted incorrectly (upside down or misaligned) such that 12V is shorted to ground

With the ColorDMD removed, try checking/replacing F116 again to see if it gets the game running. Then, if other mods are attached, try disconnecting them before connecting the ColorDMD.

#20 8 years ago

We just had this exact same error message come up on our no fear. A connection was shorting out under the playfield. Trace the fuse that is actually blowing (not the ones in the error message) to its source on the playfield and unshort your short. You do not need board work, that error message is a standard one.

#21 8 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

The most likely problem at the moment is that F116 is blown again. Are you sure you tested it correctly? It needs to be removed from the game to test it with a DMM. Don't try to test it while in the circuit.
The ColorDMD will not normally blow F116 unless
(1) There are too many mods (ex. lighted toppers) connected to the unregulated 12V supply, or
(2) The ColorDMD power cable is inserted incorrectly (upside down or misaligned) such that 12V is shorted to ground
With the ColorDMD removed, try checking/replacing F116 again to see if it gets the game running. Then, if other mods are attached, try disconnecting them before connecting the ColorDMD.

Thanks for the advice. In this case no other mods are running off the 12v supply, just the colorDMD. The fuse on F116 is good, I tested it in the game, out of the game, and tried another just to make sure. Likely something that was about to go bad with or without the colorDMD. ColorDMD makes great products, I have them on all of my games that are available!

No fuse is currently blowing for the folks that suggested that. All of the fuses on the power driver board have been tested and are good.

Thanks for all of the adice everyone, all help is appreciated. This is a good learning process for me.

#22 8 years ago

Obviously your LED 7 is not lit. Can you check the voltage on both sides of the fuse with power on?

#23 8 years ago

Also try pushing on the wires going into the J112 to see if the LED 7 comes on. I had this issue on a WCS before that resulted in repining J112.

#24 8 years ago

With your DMM, check the voltage at TP1. Red probe on TP1, black probe on ground strap, DMM set to DC Volts. If the fuse is good and TP1 is not over 13V, something failed on the unregulated 12V supply.

There are only three components that make up the supply. A bridge, a cap, a fuse, and the traces between them. Could be a failed component that needs to be replaced or a cold/broken solder joint.

#25 8 years ago

Just bring the color dmd down here and I'll put it in my Shadow for a couple of years or so to test it.

#26 8 years ago

I ran into the identical problem earlier this week when installing into my TZ. What I ended up doing was pulling the DMD Controller out of my WH20 and swapped it out. Unplugged all the ribbons and reseated. Color DMD ended up working, but still having some issues with my TZ (suddenly says my Clock is broken and when I boot up the game, all coils fire off, including ejecting a ball from the trough). Hoping one of my tech buddies will make it today to take a look. I'll report back here (and on my thread) to let you know the outcome. It might give you a better idea of what might be going on! (By the way.....really weird, because when I installed the board from TZ into my WH20, it worked fine as well).

#27 8 years ago

This is where I initially posted the issues I was having. Starting at #108. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/colordmd-announces-twilight-zone/page/3#post-2979006

Then subsequently opened it's own thread as it was no longer ColorDMD related as I got it working. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/problem-with-colordmd-and-regular-dmd-on-tz

#28 8 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

With your DMM, check the voltage at TP1. Red probe on TP1, black probe on ground strap, DMM set to DC Volts. If the fuse is good and TP1 is not over 13V, something failed on the unregulated 12V supply.
There are only three components that make up the supply. A bridge, a cap, a fuse, and the traces between them. Could be a failed component that needs to be replaced or a cold/broken solder joint.

Lets not forget J112 itself, this is your AC source from the transformer, pull the connector off and take a good look at both connector and header pins to make sure they look okay.

#29 8 years ago
Quoted from Bigbossfan:

I ran into the identical problem earlier this week when installing into my TZ. What I ended up doing was pulling the DMD Controller out of my WH20 and swapped it out. Unplugged all the ribbons and reseated. Color DMD ended up working, but still having some issues with my TZ (suddenly says my Clock is broken and when I boot up the game, all coils fire off, including ejecting a ball from the trough). Hoping one of my tech buddies will make it today to take a look. I'll report back here (and on my thread) to let you know the outcome. It might give you a better idea of what might be going on! (By the way.....really weird, because when I installed the board from TZ into my WH20, it worked fine as well).

12V power is not getting to the playfield. Check the connections for J116-J118. Make sure the playfield power connector is plugged into one of those headers or to the center connector of the ColorDMD power cable.

#30 8 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Lets not forget J112 itself, this is your AC source from the transformer, pull the connector off and take a good look at both connector and header pins to make sure they look okay.

Very good point. I think Brian identified the same thing above but I missed the connection.

#31 8 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

I missed the connection.

I see what you did there.

#32 8 years ago

Dont under estimate the fuse holder itself, it could be loose solder on the board, ohm through the traces of the fuse holder too

#33 8 years ago

This is going to come down to a connection somewhere either on the board or in the wiring. I just cant see any way that BR5 or C30 can fail without blowing F116, and we know you don't have 12VU since LED7 is out and your display is telling you the same thing.

EDIT: Actually, the fuse holder does look a little strange in the picture, it may be possible that BR5 or C30 failed initially which took out F116; then, while replacing the fuse, the fuse holder was damaged removing the source voltage from BR5, which is why the fuse no longer blows.

#34 8 years ago

Yes, there could be a broken trace between C30 and BR5 or a bad connection on J112 wiring. Both of these issues I found before on different games and neither caused a blown F116 fuse.

#35 8 years ago

I dropped the board off to be checked out. I should know tomorrow if there are any issues with it, if not it has to be a connector. I wish I would have put the board in my CFTBL to see if it did the same thing but I didn't think about that until I was already out the door. I'll update tomorrow when I have some info. Thanks for all of your help.

#36 8 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

Just bring the color dmd down here and I'll put it in my Shadow for a couple of years or so to test it.

It would just set on a pile of all of your other uninstalled mods and never receive the testing that you speak of. It will end up like that IJ airplane mode you have been telling me about for 3 years

#37 8 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I dropped the board off to be checked out. I should know tomorrow if there are any issues with it, if not it has to be a connector. I wish I would have put the board in my CFTBL to see if it did the same thing but I didn't think about that until I was already out the door. I'll update tomorrow when I have some info. Thanks for all of your help.

And you still can move the CFTBL driver over to shadow today.

#38 8 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

Just bring the color dmd down here and I'll put it in my Shadow for a couple of years or so to test it.

Bring it to me, I'm much closer!

#39 8 years ago

Going back to a WCS I repaired where the F116 was blowing out, I tracked it down to the soccer ball gearbox that had a bad spot where it would be slightly hard to turn. Upon start up of the motor, it was loo much current needed for the driver board so it blew out the fuse.

So on the Shadow, what all items running on 12 volts could be causing the fuse to blow?
The battlefield plunger motor is one that comes to mind. I wonder if the power wires to this motor has bare wires shorting to that assembly.

#40 8 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

It would just set on a pile of all of your other uninstalled mods and never receive the testing that you speak of. It will end up like that IJ airplane mode you have been telling me about for 3 years

Have you considered that Mike has anti tampering systems in place to safeguard against changes from the original? The Shadow dmd was meant to be orange to match the flash dome covers. As a friend, I'll take it off your hands to save you from this blasphemy.

#41 8 years ago
Quoted from FreeBee:

Yeah, propbably what Borygard says. The colorDMD maybe draws less power than the plasma DMD, but the plasma has its very own PSU with high voltage, while the color dmd draws off the 12V regulated PSU. If the bridge rectifiers and capacitor of this 12V rail where already on the end of their lives, the color dmd can push these components over the edge. The fuse blowing was the first hint.
This causes all manner of things to stop working, mainly opto's, motors, and I believe flashers as well.

It draws off the 12v unregulated not the 12v regulated.

#42 8 years ago

And the winner is................

Quoted from zaza:

Nah, you mean un-regulated, that is LED7, F116 and Br.5

Br5 was damaged and is now replaced. Thanks for everyone's help!!!!

image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

#43 8 years ago

congrats !

I'm very much thinking about buying a color DMD for the Shadow as well. Looks beautiful.

#44 8 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

congrats !
I'm very much thinking about buying a color DMD for the Shadow as well. Looks beautiful.

Yup. It's really nice. TS has great dots in general.

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