(Topic ID: 272289)

Serious System 11B Sound Issues....wrong music being played etc...


By Oldschool77

6 months ago



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  • 24 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by thedefog
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 months ago

I picked up a Space Station yesterday with some seriously possessed sound issues....When you start a game it starts to play the regular main theme for about 2 seconds, and then shifts to the multiball music for the entire time. Many sound effects are incorrect and overlap sometimes causing weird digital crap and distortion....however all the voices are there and are correct. At the end of the game it plays what should be the "normal" main theme as the end of game music and then has a bunch of garbled digital crap when it fades out and ends for about 5 seconds.....THEN (this is the REALLY weird crap) when in attract mode, after the attract sound is played the main theme will start playing super faintly (gotta put your ear on the speaker to hear it) non stop until a game is started. PLUS...when you go into sound test mode (during all and any tests, even switch test and display test) the "normal" main theme plays constantly...BUT....when you go to sound test and go to "main theme" it plays the multi ball theme again, just like when in game play.

The MPU has some very light acid damage on the two PIA chips below the holder and to the area to the right of those chips...I "neutralized" it for now and cleaned it up...i'll verify continuity tonite. That will all get replaced in time, parts are on order. I reseated all the sound chips, and threw on a new ribbon cable i had on hand. Other then the super light acid damage, all the boards match are super clean and hack free.

The game plays perfectly fine too. And the displays all read correctly.

Any thoughts/suggestions? I know system 11 really well...I've just never run into this specific issue, and i'm trying not to instantly assume it's the PIAs on the MPU....should I?

Thanks!

#2 6 months ago

when you go into switch test mode, are any switches firing that shouldn't be, specifically those involved with starting multiball?
Short of that, I'd imagine an issue where the wrong music is being called would likely also cause other issues with the soundboard interaction. Check the cable between the MPU and sound, and the pins on either side. Funky memory address issues that could cause the wrong music to play would likely also cause a data line crash and lock up the sound board.

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from thedefog:

when you go into switch test mode, are any switches firing that shouldn't be, specifically those involved with starting multiball?
Short of that, I'd imagine an issue where the wrong music is being called would likely also cause other issues with the soundboard interaction. Check the cable between the MPU and sound, and the pins on either side. Funky memory address issues that could cause the wrong music to play would likely also cause a data line crash and lock up the sound board.

Thanks! Everything "seems" ok...u51, specifically the left side, is pretty warm even during attract mode, and U8 on the sound board is very hot...also in attract mode.

#4 6 months ago

Ok....with everything unplugged from the sound board except power (J3) U8 is still super hot, too hot to touch almost.

#5 6 months ago
Quoted from Oldschool77:

The MPU has some very light acid damage on the two PIA chips below the holder

Need to be replaced.

Post a picture of the whole board. Sometimes board is much worse than you may first inspect it.

#6 6 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Need to be replaced.
Post a picture of the whole board. Sometimes board is much worse than you may first inspect it.

Thanks...here ya go....the back is clean as a whistle as is the rest of the board...

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#7 6 months ago

SCR2 and U51 also look to been hit as well. U43 and the surrounding parts look very suspect as well.

#8 6 months ago

is U8 the 6809 processor on the sb? If so, it will run hot, that is normal.

Your corrosion is minimal. A tiny trace could be eaten behind the battery pack though. You'll need to remove the battery tray to further troubleshoot here.

In test mode, does the music play properly, or is the wrong music played back?

#9 6 months ago
Quoted from thedefog:

is U8 the 6809 processor on the sb? If so, it will run hot, that is normal.
Your corrosion is minimal. A tiny trace could be eaten behind the battery pack though. You'll need to remove the battery tray to further troubleshoot here.
In test mode, does the music play properly, or is the wrong music played back?

Thanks! The wrong music is played in test mode...and many times the sound board will lock up...but it only locks up during test mode.

I agree on the corrosion, it's very very light...and there is none on the actual battery holder which is very odd.

I'm taking both boards to a buddy of mine's house tonight and gonna swap them into his earthshaker and see how it performs in there.

#10 6 months ago

Also I verified continuity last night through that whole area and everything checks out good.

Can a bad sound ROM on the soundboard because these issues?

#11 6 months ago

I had a similar issue on a Williams Joust arcade game.
Although it’s an arcade game, not a pinball machine it’s the same basic principal with regards to the sound and the boards are pretty similar.
It wound up being corrosion on the pins on the connector on the sound board.
Each of those pins represents a sound.
Combinations of them create other sounds.
The corrosion on the pins was confusing it so the wrong sounds were being triggered at certain times. Some were correct, some were not.
After re-pinning the connector it corrected the confused sounds.
Not saying this is your issue, but possible.

#12 6 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I had a similar issue on a Williams Joust arcade game.
Although it’s an arcade game, not a pinball machine it’s the same basic principal with regards to the sound and the boards are pretty similar.
It wound up being corrosion on the pins on the connector on the sound board.
Each of those pins represents a sound.
Combinations of them create other sounds.
The corrosion on the pins was confusing it so the wrong sounds were being triggered at certain times. Some were correct, some were not.
After re-pinning the connector it corrected the confused sounds.
Not saying this is your issue, but possible.

Thanks! I didn't realize that's how these work, but that makes allot of sense! I wish I could post the short vids I shared on the Facebook groups on here. It would help allot I think.

#13 6 months ago
Quoted from Oldschool77:

Thanks! I didn't realize that's how these work, but that makes allot of sense! I wish I could post the short vids I shared on the Facebook groups on here. It would help allot I think.

Try cleaning all the pins really good first and look at the back to see if you have and cold solder joints.
If there’s any improvement after that, it might point you in the right direction.

#14 6 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Try cleaning all the pins really good first and look at the back to see if you have and cold solder joints.
If there’s any improvement after that, it might point you in the right direction.

This 100%. It is rare to have these kinds of problems when things are working elsewhere.
Also swap the ribbon cable if you can. If there is corrosion, the ribbon cable is corroded internally. That stuff travels and migrates up the connectors, the thinner the more vulnerable. Even though the pinout isn't the same, you can use an old IDE HD PATA cable if you have one laying around from an OLD pc, as long as you line up the red side properly on both ends and pin 1 matches on both sides.

#15 6 months ago
Quoted from thedefog:

This 100%. It is rare to have these kinds of problems when things are working elsewhere.
Also swap the ribbon cable if you can. If there is corrosion, the ribbon cable is corroded internally. That stuff travels and migrates up the connectors, the thinner the more vulnerable. Even though the pinout isn't the same, you can use an old IDE HD PATA cable if you have one laying around from an OLD pc, as long as you line up the red side properly on both ends and pin 1 matches on both sides.

Thanks! Unfortunately I already tried a brand new ribbon cable I had...after I get back from my buddies house tonite where I'm gonna test both boards in his earthshaker, I think I'll have a better handle on things, or at least have it narrowed down to one board.

#16 6 months ago

I'm experiencing something similiar on my System 11B machine (police force). When I go into the music test, all the music is random sound effects. However, if I play the game for 15+ minutes, the music sounds tend to eventually switch to the correct music. I haven't been able to figure out my problem yet either

Long story short, keep us informed if you figure out what is going on as it might help me out.

#17 6 months ago

Problem solved! It was a bad trace from pin 12 of u42 to the SCR. Apparently I missed it when I did my continuity check. Soldered a jumper onto the back and all is well with the world again. Thanks for all the help!!!

#18 6 months ago
Quoted from explosiveegg:

I'm experiencing something similiar on my System 11B machine (police force). When I go into the music test, all the music is random sound effects. However, if I play the game for 15+ minutes, the music sounds tend to eventually switch to the correct music. I haven't been able to figure out my problem yet either
Long story short, keep us informed if you figure out what is going on as it might help me out.

That is likely due to heat expansion. The pins grip better when warm, so likely just a connector issue there between MPU and Soundboard. Clean the pin headers and swap out the ribbon cable and see if that helps.

Quoted from Oldschool77:

Problem solved! It was a bad trace from pin 12 of u42 to the SCR. Apparently I missed it when I did my continuity check. Soldered a jumper onto the back and all is well with the world again. Thanks for all the help!!!

That's excellent! My kind of 4th of July. I never get tired of debugging these games.

#19 6 months ago
Quoted from thedefog:

That is likely due to heat expansion. The pins grip better when warm, so likely just a connector issue there between MPU and Soundboard. Clean the pin headers and swap out the ribbon cable and see if that helps

Will do. I have ribbon cables due to arrive on Tuesday. I'll keep you informed on the results. Thanks for the input.

#20 6 months ago

So interesting update....everything is still working great BUT.....if i go into settings and turn off the attract sounds, when my game is over it plays the end of game song forever until i start a new game or cycle power. BUT....if i turn the attract sounds to anything other then off (Allot or Less), everything fades out as it should at the end of the game.

What's even more interesting is, when everything was all messed up sound wise, before i found that bad trace, this didn't happen. I recheck'ed my jumper job, and i for sure didn't solder bridge anything when installing it.

#21 6 months ago

You need to replace the parts that have battery corrosion on the legs. Surely, it has entered inside some of the parts already.

#22 6 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You need to replace the parts that have battery corrosion on the legs. Surely, it has entered inside some of the parts already.

I know...i am...parts are on order. I'm just curious if anyone has seen this issue before so i can look other places too in the event that replacing the damaged areas doesn't help.

#23 6 months ago

I never worry about that until I replaced the damaged parts. You may be worried for no reason. I have no doubt the issues will clear up.

#24 6 months ago

Issues like these aren't faulty parts usually but faulty lines/traces causing data issues, unless it is corroded interally on the IC.... older TTL logic that is prone to migration effects. I'd check ohms on all traces going to that header on the MPU to start, look for anything that could cause the line to not reach proper digital levels.

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