(Topic ID: 352527)

Sensitivity reed switch?

By JohanM

4 months ago


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  • 21 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 76 days ago by JohanM
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 months ago

How sensitive should the reed switches be?

I have a Revenge from Mars and there is three reed switches besides the "stroke of luck". Thery dont always register when I play.

When I roll a ball over them they seem to register. In the switch test matrix there is only two reed switches but its three in reality??

Should i try the DIY repair by replacing the diode and reed switch in all three of them?

kopia IMG_20240227_211109 (resized).jpgkopia IMG_20240227_211109 (resized).jpgkopia IMG_20240227_211135 (resized).jpgkopia IMG_20240227_211135 (resized).jpg
#2 4 months ago
Quoted from JohanM:

How sensitive should the reed switches be?
I have a Revenge from Mars and there is three reed switches besides the "stroke of luck". Thery dont always register when I play.
When I roll a ball over them they seem to register. In the switch test matrix there is only two reed switches but its three in reality??
Should i try the DIY repair by replacing the diode and reed switch in all three of them?[quoted image][quoted image]

Nope - you should do like all others over the last 4 years have with the same questions....at least every month I get one...and contact me directly - so you don't lose anymore hair and don't spend a dime....

Matt

#3 4 months ago

I second the advice to work with M&M Creations.

I third the advice to work with M&M Creations.

I fourth the....

Seriously, M&M Creations is providing the best solutions to these problems. Top quality product, top quality people.

Highly recommended.

#4 4 months ago
Quoted from Sonic:

Nope - you should do like all others over the last 4 years have with the same questions....at least every month I get one...and contact me directly - so you don't lose anymore hair and don't spend a dime....
Matt

Im located in Sweden. Can I buy 3 switches from you?

#5 4 months ago
Quoted from JohanM:

Im located in Sweden. Can I buy 3 switches from you?

You can - but you don't need to....um....do you have Viber and/or WhatsApp - if so - we can converse - I can go over a few things you can do that 99% of the time fixes the problems for folks!!

Matt

1 week later
#6 4 months ago

Tried to move the switches around turning them etc. It doesnt improve detection.

Is it the switch that is faulty or is it the computer that doesnt register a hit fast enough? When the ball is fast it seldom the roll over switch registers.

If the ball barely travels up the lane it always detects.

When I roll the ball manually through the lane even if I do it fast the switch always triggers (briefly)

#7 4 months ago

So next steps...did you ensure the MRS' were clean - a common problem is they pick up metallic dust over time (yep, it's a thing) and that can mess with the reaction time/sensitivity of the MRS - just had someone contact me and that was the fix...beyond that - no, the MPU isn't slow - nor are the MRS'...you need to break this down further...simply pull all 3 from below - but leave them connected - go into switch test mode and determine (by using a ball or other magnetic piece of metal) if any are reacting slow (very doubtful) THEN what the sensitivity is of each - you'll want to make sure the 2 that are most sensitive are together in the wider lane - and the lesser sensitive MRS is in the single spot...it may seem trivial, but important...over time folks remove them, rotate them and all kinds of things - use something like wood shims or stacks of cardboard to help you 'gauge' sensitivity...most OEM MRS' are in the 4-6mm range....if it's more like 2-3mm - then I'd agree, it's at fault...speed is related to magnetic field sensitivity - the less sensitive - the more direct in path of the MRS the ball must be to trigger at speed...most folks can optimize their MRS placement to garner working results...

#8 4 months ago

Tried all directions of the switch. Didnt help. Some directions made it worse.
Checked that the all individual switches work with the switch test. They do work.
I replaced the reed switch and diode in two of the switches. This didnt make it more sensetive.

Sometimes I wonder if it is the computer that is busy and will not detect the trigger??

During martian happy hour there is one martian sitting on chair. If you hit the lane with the reed switches that chair is supposed to spinn. This is seldom triggered.

#9 4 months ago

Replacing the reeds is ill-advised - you can actually make the problem worse - especially if you don't know what AT rating the reed is you bought- the diode doesn't do anything for response or sensitivity....the MPU is waaaaaay fast enough to register the MRS - your problem is simply that of sensitivity...the OEM MRS' are not all the same - they had a range to them - and some barely were sensitive enough and over time can be a tad less sensitive and then no longer is viable where it was located...this is where swapping between locations can help....in our case - you may want to entertain purchasing 3 new MRS'....

Matt

#10 4 months ago

Thanks for the ideas.

I noticed that in play, that if the ball doesnt make it fully up the lane where the Reed switches are and goes out the way it came in, then its triggered. I interpret that like: if the ball is slow enough it manages to detect it.

I noticed that the magnets in the reed switches are not of the same strength. They look the same but one can feel the difference on how much it tugs on the ball when you move it over the switch.

I got REED switches according to this link:

mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEDER-electronic-Standex/KSK-1A80-1015/?qs=KFo7JewZbUFX%252bU5EsD5Ziw%3D%3D

Futhermore i checked how far away the ball can be and still reacting. Two of the switches are more sensitive. They react at 5-6mm away. The last one 2-3mm away. I put the 5-6mm in a pair. I turned them in such a way that the magnet part are as far as possible apart.

Maybe it got a little better sensitive but still it misses 80% of times I enter that channel.

Should one get rid of this detection method completly and put another type of switch in this area?

#11 4 months ago

Considering we've come across no one else with an MRS issue in RFM (we own 2 RFM's @ M&M Creations) I'd suggest that going to something else is ill-advised...in your case, MRS' are maddening little creatures - you think you have a great understanding of what they are doing - but they you don't...and not without the right test equipment...

The reeds you bought are too high an AT - thus adding to your delay reaction because of the larger pull required...

But it is up to you to do as you like...

Matt

#12 4 months ago

I tooke the switch out with the worst sensitivity and put back the old reed/diode combo. It got higher sensitivity after that 5-6mm.

This switch was the single one in the back. Sensitivity is now better but still bad. Maybe it registers 40-50% of the times. Fast balls are typcially not registered.

#13 4 months ago

The OEM MRS' - as noted - were typically between 4-6mm - which in most cases is plenty - but sometimes barely enough...our MRS' are 7-6mm - this tends to be the better sensitivity for rollover type applications...

Matt

#14 4 months ago

Can I buy 3 of them (shipping to Sweden?)

#15 4 months ago

Here the problem can be seen (not my machine but the hit doesnt register)

#16 4 months ago
Quoted from JohanM:

Here the problem can be seen (not my machine but the hit doesnt register)

Just got your 3 built - they will cure and go through testing next...should ship Monday...

Matt

3 weeks later
#17 3 months ago

Got the new switches. Sensitity is much better. However sometimes it doesnt detect a hit. Im starting to think if the rule in the game is that its not supposed to be detected in certain modes...? Or the metallic divider that goes above the sensors interferes with the detection?

#18 3 months ago
Quoted from JohanM:

Got the new switches. Sensitity is much better. However sometimes it doesnt detect a hit. Im starting to think if the rule in the game is that its not supposed to be detected in certain modes...? Or the metallic divider that goes above the sensors interferes with the detection?

You can play with the diverter to know that...at the end of the day - it's a wide field of detection - that's why they doubled them up...you may have to rotate with orientation of the MRS'....but you can do all of this by playing in GAME mode - take the glass off....do the testing that way...this is how you'll know - otherwise things don't work the same and coils aren't energized...

Matt

2 weeks later
#19 78 days ago

A lot more gaming has been done. When the ball is fast the detector always miss to detect the ball. If the ball is slow it easily detects the ball.

With glass of one can see that the switches triggers briefly (switch test mode) if you throw the ball as fast as I can by hand.

It still seems to me the "CPU" is not fast enough to detect that the switch has triggered. Is there anyway to lengthen the trigger (like in old games with a capacitor at the diode??)

#20 78 days ago
Quoted from JohanM:

A lot more gaming has been done. When the ball is fast the detector always miss to detect the ball. If the ball is slow it easily detects the ball.
With glass of one can see that the switches triggers briefly (switch test mode) if you throw the ball as fast as I can by hand.
It still seems to me the "CPU" is not fast enough to detect that the switch has triggered. Is there anyway to lengthen the trigger (like in old games with a capacitor at the diode??)

My partner and I both own RFM's, and of course over 4-5 years have been the guys RFM owners reach out to for questions & suggestions regarding MRS' - I can say we've never encountered a bad OEM Williams MRS - owners say they have bad ones - but no matter what we've done to ask for them to be sent to us for analysis - haven't been given one yet...that said, haven't run into the issues you are having at such a great degree...if it were me, I'd consider reseating cables and upgrading the ROM's....what ROM's are you running - did you upgrade to the MyPinball's ROM's from a few years ago yet or are you running the originals? This could prove very helpful...

Matt

#21 76 days ago

I ran 1.6 and have updated to 2.5 recently.

The new ones I bought seems to be more sensitive but still they miss detect the ball when its fast

I can see that the animations stutter when the ball hits a pop bumper or other switch. Is that normal? To me it seems the computer is interupted when there is switch trigger that makes the animations stutter.

I added another 64mb of memory since some people claimed the animations should be smoother with more RAM. Didnt notice much difference to be honest.

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