Yep, that's what we did for CFTBL. Having something in B&W that we can both agree on and commit to is really helpful with confusion, ambiguity, time, or just forgetfulness tries to rear its ugly head...

Any number of makes and models can fetch that--and more.

I saw this 2005 Ford the other day for $470,000.

You should probably use Escrow on that one for sure

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Dangerous car. I have a friend that wrecked two of them on the track...his position was both accidents were caused by the same defect, matter “resolved” and nothing further can be said about it. The car is an instant classic though. Not surprised at all they are at a half mill now.

What happens if hypothetically I buy your game because I want parts from it since mine aren't as nice or flaky. I get your game and swap the boards, dmd, coils, playfield, translite, etc, then refuse your game saying it's not as advertised. I ship you back your game since I don't mind spending $400 to ship when I got all kinds of better parts from your game. When you get your game back if you notice I swapped parts and complain to escrow, how do they know who to side with? At that point it becomes a he said she said unless you have amazing up close and detailed pictures and serial numbers.

So the question is are you allowed that much time? Is this a receive inspect and not except type service? Or receive wait a day then say Na I don't want it I'm shiping it back. Sounds to me once you sign for it it's yours?

Well I'm going by vid's post which says the buyer has 48 hours. So perhaps a playfield swap would be ambitious, but swapping parts here and there would be easily doable, like playfield plastics for example, a translite, a dmd, stuff that isn't easy to tie to a particular game unless you have exceptional pictures.

Of course you are going to have crazy detailed pics of any game you ship.

Unless the buyer is from Michigan, no one is going to go through that much trouble to rip you off.

I guess I don't underestimate the vileness of people. Because to me if I was say a total asshole, using escrow would for an easy way for example to get a better cabinet or populated playfield. Spend the $400 shipping and when I get your game I disconnect a few cables, swap the populated play field and keep the machine with the better cabinet/playfield combo. I dunno, maybe I'm being paranoid but I've seen people go to more trouble for less illegal gain so I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried that. And even if you have pictures I can make the claim that you are using pictures of someone else's game and you were trying to scam me. Then it's back to he said she said. Anyways I'll stick with local sales and cash.

Wow, I'm surprised to see all of the people saying "I would never ship!!!" If everyone had that mentality, I wouldn't have any pins yet... I purchased my first two pins this year and had initial conversation through DM, and then a combination of texts and a phone call or two, and both went great. We didn't use escrow either, although I offered.

I agree that in the OP's case, it seems suspicious, but don't dismiss shipping out of hand...

It's not an easy way.

I've never sold a game that I've shipped for less than $7,000.

So the scammer has to put up $7,500 to risk that he might come out ahead, wait 2 weeks for delivery, be home for delivery, swap parts, re-crate, be home for pickup.....that's a lot of work.

You probably love those heist movies where they use 20 photos of a crown to make a perfect replica, then swap the crown during the bi-yearly maintenance of the museum's alarm, on the 4th of July during the fireworks....

I just don't understand why people make it so difficult. I sell games daily, and ship multiple games every week. Often it is to customers that i have no clue who they are. Its very simple, If you have any doubts ,just have them wire the money to your bank. Its easy, and relatively cheap. It generally cost the buyer and seller each 15.00. So for me to sell a game like an Addams family. If I sell for 6k, I end up with 5985. And there is no risk at all, once its in my account, there is no way they can retract it. (where paypal would take about 200-300 and always a risk of a chargeback)

I simply have to give the buyer my info. Which is my name, bank name, bank address, routing number and account number. Just because they have the account number doesn't mean they have access to your funds. Plus a simple thing to do. Open a second account, keep the bank minimum in there, when you receive a payment, go online and transfer from that account to your daily account. Payment for me is in my account within 24 hours

Now that’s my kind of movie!

Nissan GT-R

Ferrari Dino GT - around the half a million mark give or take originality, mileage and overall condition.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinside-car-club/page/6#post-3446712

I'm not surprised.

Shipping is a headache.

Maybe if you are retired, work from home, or flip games for a living it's kinda OK.

But all the back & forth giving the buyer all the details he needs, getting the funds, setting up the shipping date, being home all day when the shippers are late (or don't show up at all), rescheduling the shipping for another day, tracking the shipment, making a claim when the game has been speared by a forklift, having them deny the claim.....it's a headache.

There is a simplicity to just selling a game for cash out of the garage.

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Sometimes it's the same headache buying one!

Same thing in reverse!

What if Mike is just some really psycho billionaire who really will follow through with payment and just wants to pull a prank and have a bunch of Spooky pinballs show up on Jack’s doorstep?

First buy a BBB repro. Then buy an original BBB on escrow. When original arrives, claim it is no good and ship them the repro back. Then take out an ad to sell your original BBB. Ship it to new buyer, who screws you over with the same scam, but who instead returns a Popeye. That is an elaborate plan. In life, I've found most crooks tend to be lazy and prefer easier ways to make a buck.

Now who has an original BBB to sell me?

I had a worry about that s well.
I was going to post a similair topic. Video tape the game inside and top and bottom

I'd say getting payed by PayPal as "friends and family" is bulletproof, from what I understand from being a ebay seller for over 10 years and dealing with PayPal. If the PayPal holder claims that the money sent as "friends and family" was fraudulent, PayPal will create and internal investigation and the recipient is covered under them, the sender's account is deadlocked. Then if shipping threw STI you have another week or so buffer there as well. It's kinda the new convenience to ship pins, but if there's no personal contact (telephone call) then I would be worried for sure!

Yeah I mention it because it happened to me on ebay. I sold a cell phone, sent it to the buyer, he used it for three weeks and then said condition not as advertised and filed a complaint with paypal. He sent it back and it was all banged up, whereas I had sent him a mint condition phone. I filed a complaint with paypal and even though I had lots of pictures of the before and after they didn't care, they sided with the buyer. So I was now left with a banged up phone when I had shipped him a mint condition phone.

I have no experience with escrow services hence why I was asking, because I have no idea who they would side with. Would they be like paypal and automatically side with the buyer even if I have pictures? I ultimately decided I don't want to find out, and hence do local cash sales only. If someone is willing to do it to me for a $600 phone, then they may want to do it for a $6000 pin.

Ebay will always side with the buyers and just ask them to return the item, but there's a big difference between an ebay sale or any paypal purchase and transferring money threw paypal as "friends and family". There's nothing you can say to retract that payment, even if you lie and say your account was hacked they'll pull up the device you logged into your paypal account and made the payment on, investigate your account and then suspend you from using paypal.

I think going old school might be the best way.

Before Paypal, I used to take checks from my Ebay sales all of the time. "Personal check is OK. Once your check clears I will ship your order".

All Paypal really does is get rid of the time wait. For a big ticket item like a pinball machine a few days extra will not make much difference with a buyer.

Once that personal check clears the bank it is your money.

Personal check or Bank Wire. Check is cheaper.

From what I understand, if you use your paypal account as "friends and family" but it's really being used for selling items then paypal will suspend your account if they find out. Also from what I understand if a buyer funds their paypal account with a stolen credit card, then the money will be taken from a seller even if it was sent via "friends and family".

That's not true, if your doing a deal with a friend it's perfectly fine to transfer money that way they will not suspend your account, I've had so many payments made and received that way allways with a little note "for pinball machine" or whatever. As far as new accounts are concerned you cant even send money that way for at least 3 months until your paypal account is verified, and if the credit card used to send the money as "friends and family" was stolen the recipient is fully protected and paypall will deal with the credit card company. You are fully protected using friends and family payments I've talked with them quite a while about this, call them yourself and you'll find out.

It's only if you get reported or caught of course, it's happened to a fair amount of people that I know where they lost their paypal account for using "friends and family" payments for normal purchases. Your mileage may vary I suppose. For chargebacks I'm going by what the ladies I know have used paypal for, most have pretty much banned it and moved to other payment services like Circlepay or whatever because paypal issued them chargebacks even on friends or family payments. As for why it's happened to them and not you though I have no idea. But they have all pretty much universally warned me to avoid paypal because of it.

I get so many scammers on Craigslist for everyday items. Baby stroller, couch, lamps, etc. The set up is always they will mail you a cashiers or personal check and have someone come to pick up the item later. You get a check in the mail for an amount way over the asking price. They ask you if you got the payment and then say they made it out for the wrong amount. They want you to cash it and send back the difference immediately. You just cashed a fake check and gave away your own money to the scammer.

These are easy to spot because they usually text from area codes far away, don't always know which item is involved and have poor grammar. And most ask this question: "What is the price/what is the lowest price"? I love screwing with them and give them the address to my local FBI field office in Fort Worth since it is a regular address. And just for the entertainment of the FBI, I have them make the check out to D.B. Cooper or Daniel B. Cooper.

If you want 100% bulletproof then Bitcoin is the only way!

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