(Topic ID: 117479)

Sega Independence Day: 2 problems

By MFPinball

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

Hello Everybody,

New member, so let me introduce myself first.

My name is Mario, I'm from the netherlands and recently got the pinball bug real bad . So finally, after some deliberation, I decided to buy a pinball machine with a friend of mine. We decide to buy a 'very used' one, to learn how to fix problems and perhaps upgrade a pinball machine, without having to declare bankruptcy at the end of it.

anyway, enough about me, here are the two issues I'm having with Independence Day I hope you guys can help me with:

1. The first couple of games I played, everything was fine. But now, the game doesn't recognize a center ball drain anymore. The game keeps playing, without noticing I just drained. When I lift up the playing field and move the last ball (first ball to be used in the next game) up and down, the game finally picks up the fact the ball has drained, and gives the next ball. Also, in some instances, the game starts a random multiball while I just drained.

2. A totally different problem: the alienhead where you lock the ball opens fine, but doesnt fully close. I checked the wheels of the motor (dont know if they're called wheels) and they move fine. I can close the head by hand, and there doesnt seem to be anything wrong at first sight.

I hope you guys can help me.

Thanks!

Note: Im very much a beginner. I'm pretty handy, but unfamiliar with pinball machines, so im not very familiar with all the terminology. I'm trying to learn alot of stuff, as I find it very interesting but at this point im prettu much a noob, so go easy on me

#2 9 years ago

Hey Mario,

For the center drain issue. Make sure that the trough (where the balls sit when not in play) switches are working. It sounds like one of those may not be registering so the game doesn't know how many balls are in the trough. You could look at the actual values in the in game menu, accessed by the switches near the coin door.

For the alien head issue, there are two allen screws under the alien head accessed under the playfield. You can loosen those and adjust the head so it sits closed properly. If I remember correctly, only one of the screws really needs to be loosened, the one on the left hand side. It may take some trial and error but you should be able to get it with a few tries. You can make that alien head open and close within the in game menus as well, so you can test your work.

Hope this helps. Welcome and Good luck!

P.S. Here is a link to the menu. You will find how to access the menus here.

http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-pinball/I/Independence_Day_OPS.pdf

#3 9 years ago

Hey Pinitration,

Thank you very much for your elaborate answers.

1. You where right, the switches are not working. When I move them down (simulating a ball rolling over) they dont register. How could I fix this problem?

2. Yes! Fixed it. Fantastic

#4 9 years ago

IMAG0597.jpgIMAG0597.jpg

This is how it looks like, I dont know if this helps?

#5 9 years ago
Quoted from MFPinball:

Thank you very much for your elaborate answers.

You're welcome

Quoted from MFPinball:

1. You where right, the switches are not working. When I move them down (simulating a ball rolling over) they dont register. How could I fix this problem?

None of them work? Or one or two of them don't work? Can you hear the microswitch in the switch click?

You'll want to trace the wires and make sure they aren't disconnected or cut anywhere. You could also have some bad switches. If all of the switches are not working, it's unlikely that they are all bad. In that case, you may have a loose connector or wire somewhere under the play field, or going to the boards in the backbox. Follow wire, and make sure all connections are tight.

#6 9 years ago

Did you do your testing in test mode? Make sure you're in switch test mode when you're working on it. It makes things a lot easier.

When you say that the switches are not registering, that might be because they are not up high enough to activate the switch. This was my problem on my Hurricane. First thing you want to do is, while in switch test mode, lift the PF and grab the switch and activate it. Do you hear a click? if you don't, great, the switch is bad, just replace it/them. If it clicks, when it clicks and thus activates it, does it recognize it in switch test mode? If so, Great! All you need to do is just properly position the switch arm up high enough so the ball activates it when it is rolled over.

If you've heard the click and it doesn't register still, look at the wires and find the same colored wires up o the back box connector. When you find it, press it into the board. Then activate the switch again. Does it work now? If not, go back to the connector and gently pull and push on the wires. Does that cause anything to register? If so, you have loose connections and you should probably replace it. Look at the connector receiver pins. They may need to be replaced as well, but you can try to clean them with a gentle wire brush to see if they clean up and make a better contact with the pin connector.

If none of that works, it time to break out the multi meter and check for continuity from the back box down to switches and see if there are any breaks in the daisy chain line. The switch matrix in the manual will go a long way towards helping you with that. As you check each switch up the chain, check for bad or cracked solder joints or broken wires. That could cause the problem right there, but everything before (or after it, depending on where you started from. Either the switch or back box end) would also be affected and wouldn't be working. If the solder joints look good and solid, you could also have a bad diode at the spot where the continuity stops. You'd have to check the diode by de-soldering and pulling out one of the legs and then check it.

But try those first things and let us know how you make out. There's a ton of brilliant guys on this site who know just what to do. One way or another, they'll make sure you get it diagnosed and fixed.

Good Luck and welcome to the best site in the world with even better people.

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

You're welcome

None of them work? Or one or two of them don't work? Can you hear the microswitch in the switch click?
You'll want to trace the wires and make sure they aren't disconnected or cut anywhere. You could also have some bad switches. If all of the switches are not working, it's unlikely that they are all bad. In that case, you may have a loose connector or wire somewhere under the play field, or going to the boards in the backbox. Follow wire, and make sure all connections are tight.

I traced the wires and didnt find anything out of the ordinary (note that im not that experienced, so thats not 100% fullproof)

=> all switches click

=> The machine now doesnt recognize any of the balls: '4 balls missing'

=> It also randomly seems to check all flippers, slingshots etc. and still starts multiball whenever I move the switches by hand.

=> When it does recognize the balls, it doesnt give the ball to the plunger, but still starts a game.

I dont fully understand the service menu. The switch-tests doesnt make any sense to me (is there a video I could check?). It does report left and right flipper EOS switch, but I could be misinterpreting , as I checked these switches and they seem to be fine.

Hope you can make something of this...

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinfidel:

Did you do your testing in test mode? Make sure you're in switch test mode when you're working on it. It makes things a lot easier.

=> yes it does

If it clicks, when it clicks and thus activates it, does it recognize it in switch test mode?

=> All switches work in testing mode..

All you need to do is just properly position the switch arm up high enough so the ball activates it when it is rolled over.

=> how could I reposition the switch arm?

welcome to the best site in the world with even better people.

=> thank you very much. And based on all the reactions from you guys to a new guy with some random questions I'd say you could be very right about that

#9 9 years ago

You're more than welcome. I only know what I know because great people here were kind enough to help me. Next year, you'll pass this same info on to someone else. Just sharing the love baby!

Okay, Great news that they are all working!

First off, did you remove the apron? You need to take that off and it only 2 or maybe 4 screws. Get that off so you have clear access to the ball trough. Take a nice rag and some light duty cleaner and clean everything under there while your at it. Clean that ball trough too. They get dirty.

What you want to do next is take one ball and get that first switch lined up. After you get that one done, you go to the next and so on. I had this problem on my Hurricane pin and it took me 5 hours to get the 3 switches perfectly positioned, so don't stress if it takes awhile. Throw on some tunes and have fun.

So, take that first ball switch and roll the ball over it. How much further does the switch need to go till it activates? Grab a small pliers and carefully bend the switch up a little from the bottom. All you want to do is lift it up high enough so that when the ball rolls over it, it activates that switch. Be sure to go a little at a time because you can break that metal arm and you don't want that.

After you make an adjustment, Take the ball and roll it down the trough to see if it activates. If not, bend it up a little more. You can also try to loosen the screws that hold the switch and push it up with pressure and then retighten it. That may lift the switch up a little more too. After you do that, check it again. Keep working it like that till you find that sweet spot where it activates everytime and move on to the second switch and repeat right down the line.

There's nothing hard about it. It just takes some patience and some time. Let us know how your making out.

#10 9 years ago

addition:

In the service menu, when doing an active switch test: it tells me through ball #2, 3 and 4 are active (I had 3 balls in there) so it does recognize the balls.

Does this change anything? Or make the problem clearer?

#11 9 years ago

Did Randy ever make it in the game at all?

#12 9 years ago

I'm cooking dinner while trying to keep track. Sorry for the delays in my response.

Does it say they are active when the balls are NOT in the trough?

#13 9 years ago

allright guys, thanks so much for all the help so far. I learned a lot allready.

I'm going to tackle this further tomotrow evening, because its 23.35 here in the netherlands and I need to go to work tomorrow.

I'll keep u posted and probably bother you with some more questions

Already glad I joined this awesome forum.

Talk to you later.

gr Mario

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinfidel:

I'm cooking dinner while trying to keep track. Sorry for the delays in my response.
Does it say they are active when the balls are NOT in the trough?

Nope, they where in there, so it does recognize them..

#15 9 years ago

Take care and have a great night. Perfect timing for me to as I'm getting ready to sit down to dinner.

Sleep well and have a good day tomorrow. No worries, others will come in and respond and help as well.

#16 9 years ago

I've adjusted the switches so the machine recognizes the balls in the ball trough (allthough it seems). I've run the balls over the ball trough one-by-one in test-mode and they all register.

The game still doesnt give me a ball when I press start. The ball launch button works (checked it) and registers on dmd (skillshot). But it doesnt feed the ball to the plunger.

Does anyone know what this might be?

#17 9 years ago

Ok I'm offcially lost

The game now feeds the ball to the plunger (which it didnt a few mins ago). When playing a game, the machine randomly 'checks' slingshots, bumpers, flippers etc. Could this have anything to do with a badly soldered coil from the third bumper? Also the EOS switch on the right flipper (which controls right and third flipper) isn't in that great a shape.

thanks in advance for the help.

#18 9 years ago

Check the switch where the ball gets kicked up to the shooter lane. Also, check the coil that puts the ball in the shooter lane, a wire may have come off. Id4 knocks a wire off now and again. You can also go into coil test to see if that coil is firing.

#19 9 years ago

You see the coil that upkicks the ball into the shooter lane? Just above that is a little opto board. There is also another one on the other side of the ball trough. That board shoots a beam of light across the trough to the other board that receives the signal. When a ball breaks that beam of light, it tells the coil to fire and the Vertical up Kicker (VUK) kicks the ball up into the shooter lane. Those two opto boards are probably not working correctly and need to be replaced.

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinfidel:

You see the coil that upkicks the ball into the shooter lane? Just above that is a little opto board. There is also another one on the other side of the ball trough. That board shoots a beam of light across the trough to the other board that receives the signal. When a ball breaks that beam of light, it tells the coil to fire and the Vertical up Kicker (VUK) kicks the ball up into the shooter lane. Those two opto boards are probably not working correctly and need to be replaced.

Is it possible for them to work some of the time and still be broken?

Taking into account that im very new at all this, I presume that when there are mutliple things working one time and appear broken the next, there's an underlying problem connecting these problems. It wasn't broken untill I soldered this third flipper and crudely fixed the EOS switch from the right/third flipper. But I could be way off.

Is there a way to check these errors in the sega service menu? (dr pinball)

#21 9 years ago

Honestly, I would start by undoing what you did. I bet you soldered a diode in the wrong way or crossed some wires up or something. I've done it and when you do, it messes up other things.

What you need to do is follow the first rule of the crisis situation. Take PLENTY of pictures BEFORE you do something. Take video too. That way you can look back at your work to make sure you did it right. Pictures, Pictures, Pictures! And from all angles too.

I've taken pics and still messed up wire positioning. Other things were going batty, so I went back to my pics and sure enough, I soldered a diode in the wrong way or crossed up wires. It happens to everyone, so start by undoing what you did and go from there.

#22 9 years ago

I undid everything I did, but the problem remains:

Ball trough doesnt recognize the ball has drained, switches work (checked), after couple of seconds of no activity, machine 'checks' every slingshot, bumper etc by activating them.

What could it be??

Pleae help!

3 months later
#23 8 years ago

If the game is doing ball find routine while drained, you obviously have a flakey or misadjusted switch. Replace all the ball trough switches and then try again.

When microswitches fail, they often work sporadically.

One more tip is to isolate your problems and work on one at a time.

2 weeks later
#24 8 years ago

Hi there! Just browsing this thread and now I'm curious to hear if you solved your problem? Any luck? =)

/Andy

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