Sega ID4 DMD - Fixed

Looking for some help with a Sega display driver board. When I picked up this ID4 from a friend it was working fine. Once i got it home and plugged it in the F1 fuse blew on the board.

I replace the fuse with the listed 3/4 amp listed in the manual it also blew. After looking at the original fuse i found out someone had over fused it with a 1 amp (at least I think it's one amp, I had to look up the number on the internet). After speaking with my friend i confirmed that the pin had no recent issues (since he owned it anyway).

After a trip to Radio shack i tried a 1 amp fuse and it also blew.

Looking for suggestions on what to look at next.

Thanks,
Walter

#2 10 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,991 24 7

I'd look around the board for anything obvious. A blob of solder, and screw or something behind the board.

If nothing shifted in transit. Then start checking for a failed component on the board.

LTG : )™

#3 10 years ago

RIK

Sscoin

Inactive member

Rosedale, MD

10y 21,150 19 12

Maybe a broken ground strap from the back of the display board shorting out something...

#4 10 years ago

WHP

waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

Update a transistor has what I call a steel shield bolted to it and the weight loosen it up. I attempted to to fix it but no luck, only a bunch of blown fuses.

It's clear that the former owner did some of the same board work already.

Looks like I'll have to get my friends help as my board works skills are not helping in the matter.

#5 9 years ago

WHP

waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

I had an old power board from a past TFTC project with the same transistor.
After taking it out and putting it into the ID4 board I turned the power on and the fuse stayed good. However, still no DMD.

Tested power the 5v from the board and that works great.
Tested the DMD with my Getaway, it works great.

I don't know how to test is the remaining pairs of wires going from
the power board to the DMD power plug.

Don't suppose anyone can point me to documentation or tell me how to test them.

Thanks.

#6 9 years ago

SRS

ssbodyman

Pinside member

I'd make the a-hole that stuck you with this buy a new board. Hell, he is probably already put up the #1 score on your pin and really enjoying the game and your stuck fixing his junk he is going to owe you big time if you ask me.

#7 9 years ago

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waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sega/Stern_White_Star_Repair#Display_problems

LOL, I found the pin wiki on this:

#8 9 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/x-files-dmd-problems-need-help

Chris Hibler just fixed a bad X-Files display but this one worked - just had garbage on it:

If the voltages and connections all test good, when you first turn the game on, the display should briefly flash the display ROM version number after which the display controller syncs with the CPU/Sound board and then displays the CPU ROM and finishes booting. If you don't get the display ROM showing when you first turn the machine on, I would reseat the ROM and try again. If that doesn't solve the problem, you need to next verify the ROM is correct and passes a checksum test or replace with a known good ROM. If still no display ROM version showing, have to suspect RAM on display controller.

viperrwk

#9 9 years ago

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waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

Thanks for the feedback.

I confirmed it's the board based on the voltage the Anode should be -120 and it read out at .34v and the 12v offset should be -100 it's reading at .36. It all leads back to the one transistor i replaced as it's still not reading correctly.

The butt kicker is while checking the volts I seem to have made matters worse since the start button is no longer starting the game. I assume I did something to blow a fuse but ran out of steam tonight.

I guess I'll have to research the game start button tomorrow.

#10 9 years ago

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waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

4 amp logic fuse blows when driver card is hooked up.

#11 9 years ago

C M

CadillacMusic

Inactive member

Cleveland, OH

12y 48,650 1,035 44

Are all the plugs from/to the transformer plugged in correctly? 'Cause the logic fuse going is not likely to be related to the DMD power supply, unless you flubbed and somehow bridged the 5 volts to something higher when replacing stuff. It's 5 volts in and 5 volts out, straight through.

#12 9 years ago

SRS

ssbodyman

Pinside member

So I bought a new board for this because it was only 50 and the game is not at my house. Put it in and we now have all the correct readings at the dmd except 12v. I have 12 going in nothing coming out. Looking at the new board there is a few componets missing they seem to be in line with the 12v traces. Checking the pic from pbl where I got it they are not shown. Does anybody have any idea why and if this is the problem

0430142045.jpg

#13 9 years ago

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waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

Looks like 12 v may not be needed as DMD is now working for a second and then goes dead.

Attached is the only screen that loads before it dies.

Any thoughts?

unnamed.jpg

#14 9 years ago

WHP

waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

Quoted from viperrwk:
Chris Hibler just fixed a bad X-files display but this one worked - just had garbage on it:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/x-files-dmd-problems-need-help
If the voltages and connections all test good, when you first turn the game on, the display should briefly flash the display ROM version number after which the display controller syncs with the CPU/Sound board and then displays the CPU ROM and finishes booting. If you don't get the display ROM showing when you first turn the machine on, I would reseat the ROM and try again. If that doesn't solve the problem, you need to next verify the ROM is correct and passes a checksum test or replace with a known good ROM. If still no display ROM version showing, have to suspect RAM on display controller.
viperrwk

Looks like we are going to try the board with ROM in a X-Files to see what happens. thanks for this post it maybe the next step.

#15 9 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

I missed your 12v comment earlier. If you have a Vishay display, it does not use the 12v line at all. If the display is a Babcock, it does use the 12v. On Vishay, the 12v line isn't connected to anything.

Is the game booting ie going into attract, can coin up and start a game, coils, insert lamps, speech all work, etc? If not, then the display will go blank because it's waiting for the CPU board to tell it what to display. The fact that you get the screen above is a good sign and means the display, controller, ROM and power are all good.

If the game is not booting, first thing to check is around the RAM for battery damage. You could have a faulty RAM, ROM or other problems. Another easy thing to try if it's not booting is to swap the two 68B09Es on the board. If it boots, you know it's a bad CPU.

If the game is booting, you have to suspect the cable from the CPU board to the DMD controller. Reseat and swap ends and see if it makes a difference. If you know the cable is good, you could have a problem with U200 (if stuffed) U202 or U201.

viperrwk

#16 9 years ago

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waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

Quoted from viperrwk:
Is the game booting ie going into attract, can coin up and start a game, coils, insert lamps, speech all work, etc?
viperrwk

Yes, we can play the game 100%, minus the DMD display. In its current state, the we get the ROM display for a few seconds and it goes blank. A few times the ROM display stayed on and never changed while playing the game.

Thanks, for the 12v information and the help. That really had us confused last night.

I noted that one of the four corners of the board with the ROM was not screwed down, perhaps a vibration in transit. Between the power board and this issue one would think we dropped it, followed by drive on pothole filled roads.

One other interesting item, is the power board had a 1 amp vs. 3/4 amp fuse. I guess it's possible that the power board transistor issue caused combined with the 1 amp fuse lead to this second issue. But really a 1/4 amp difference. It's a mystery.

Hoping we can test the board in the x-files and learn more. Starting to sound like the board maybe headed to the Rob / Chris.

#17 9 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Testing_an_integrated_circuit

You can test the plasma chips on the CPU board at U200-U202 with your multimeter and this procedure:

You should also make sure there's no battery damage to the traces on both sides of the board as this can cause the type of problem you are seeing as well.

viperrwk

#18 9 years ago

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waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

Assuming I did this correctly u201 looked fine but u202 seems suspect. Video posted.

ID4 chip u202:

20140501_214655_resized.jpg

#19 9 years ago

SRS

ssbodyman

Pinside member

Video is set to private but hopefully somebody smarter than me can verify that it is bad and help with what and where to get for parts

#20 9 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

Nope not it. This is a bus transceiver, pin 1 is the directional pin and is wired to ground on the board. Its tied to the data lines which are easily damaged from battery leakage.

viperrwk

#21 9 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

Looking at your photo above U202 is R310 which is a jumper for the plasma reset line. The traces next to it look damaged to me which could be the cause of your display not resetting.

viperrwk

#22 9 years ago

WHP

waldo34

Pinside+ Addict

Cherry electric DMD based on http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index3.htm no 12v needed.

Everything tested fine in xfiles. Picking up a new ribbon cable next.

Decided to test the batteries tonight. After i cut the zip-tie I was really surprised how lose the holder was. Seems like a long shot but any chance this could be a factor?

Thanks
Walter

#23 9 years ago

RIK

Sscoin

Inactive member

Rosedale, MD

10y 21,150 19 12

I just had the same problem with a display. I took a new 74hct273 chip (ic 201) and placed it on top of the one on the board. The idea is, if the one on the board is not working (no output) the new one on top of it will work (output). This only works if your chip failed (open) and not failed (shorted).

#24 9 years ago

SRS

ssbodyman

Pinside member

First of all I should say that this is my game and thanks for all the help so far. It is hard enough fixing these things at home let alone an hour+ away.

So quick update- I tested both the cpu and driver boards as well as the ribbon cable in my old x files and they work fine in it. I had already tried the dmd board in there as well.

I did notice that the female connector that supplies the 5v on the dmd board is a little loose so I picked up a new idc connector for that, is there a possibility that could be our problem?
With all the boards and cables working in another game I just believe it has to be a bad connection somewhere. Am I wrong in my line of thought?

#25 9 years ago

WHP

waldo34

Pinside+ Addict