(Topic ID: 206592)

Sega Frankenstein still resetting (SOLVED)


By waffen_spain

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 11 months ago by waffen_spain
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#1 1 year ago

Hello there!

I've been searching, reading and learnig along this forum about Sega large DMD pin problems, but I'm still fighting with mine.

I see there are many people with similar problems, so Im going to post all the test and fixes here for future reference, I hope it help other guys to keep Sega pins working

My Frankestein was having a DMD, Sound and game reset problems, sometimes DMD, sometimes Sound, and sometimes CPU were resetting during game.

What I already did:

At PowerSupply Board:
. Replaced x4 4700mdf capacitors at C11 to C14
. Reflow solder at CN1, CN2 and other connectors related, also cleaned pins with a fiberglass eraser.
. Replaced damaged/burnt pins and connectors
. Reflow the DB1 bridge rectifier (+5V, +12-12V unreg)

At the DMD
. Replaced pins and connector for the +5v and ground.
. Reflow solder at the +18V connector

After that I've been playing lots of games without a single problem for about 3 weeks, great DMD image, great sound, perfect play....

But today it is impossible to start and complete a single game, everytime you push START button, the game puts one ball at play and sound start to reset like crazy, also DMD, and finally the game completely resets.

*** TEST I'VE DONE ***
If I disconnect the Soundboard from the PS the game works correctly, DMD and game works without problems.
If during a game I reconnect the SoundBoard it immediately starts to reset, then the DMD fails and finally the game resets.

Test points at PowerSupply Board (spected voltage, min > max) with all connected (game in advert):
. +5V = +5V > +5.11V
. +12V = +12V > +12,20V
. -12V = -11.3V > -11.7V

Test points at Logic Board during a game:
. +5V = +4.92V > 5.04V (use to stay at 5.02V)

CNs at DMD board
. +5V = +4.92V > 5.04V (use to stay at 5.02V)
. +18V = +17.30V > 17.60V

CNs at Sound board
. +5V = still not tested
. -12V = still not tested
. +12V = still not tested

*********************

As you see I already have a low -12VUNREG at the PSBoard, but the +5V is very stable, rarely showing less than 5V.

I also have a low +18V at DMD, but since it works great and I think its not related with the resets problems, I will let it alone.

What do you think? DB1 bridge rectifier (+5V, +12-12V unreg) may be fatiged?
Sound board asking too much to the PS (connectors gaining resistance, bad caps...)?

#2 1 year ago

I'd go for your bridge rectifier first. You're dropping your five volts, it sounds like, and that's the main suspect in that circuit. Also, do a visual check of the ball vend solenoid, and make sure it's not possibly shorting or touching anything.

#3 1 year ago

Replaced the bridge, not an easy task, had yo fix 2 Broken traces....

Problem NOT FIXED.

PS VOLTAGES
+12V = 10.61
-12V = 14.28 (goes Up n down a lot)
+5v = 5.10v

CPU
+5V = 5.02

SOUND
+5V = 5.06
+12v = 10.72v
-12v = -14.25v

IMG_20180104_201740 (resized).jpg

#4 1 year ago

My earthshaker had a cold solder on the flipper switch that kept making it reset. Finally found after taking an isolation approach to things. Not sure if that helps. Also had weird problems with my FT until I found a break in the grounding braid. Electronics.

#5 1 year ago

I see a very low +12v and a too High -12v....

Any ideas?

Quoted from Buzz:

My earthshaker had a cold solder on the flipper switch that kept making it reset. Finally found after taking an isolation approach to things. Not sure if that helps. Also had weird problems with my FT until I found a break in the grounding braid. Electronics.

I had the same issue on this particular machine... Im going to DoubleClick check

#6 1 year ago

Just the normal isolation. Look at everything that uses the 12? Sometimes it feels these things don't make sense.

#7 1 year ago

Mmm

Quoted from Buzz:Just the normal isolation. Look at everything that uses the 12? Sometimes it feels these things don't make sense.

Mmmm sound board.... Flash lights.... And?

#8 1 year ago

I've chased this stuff for days. Take a break breathe and sometimes it will come to you what to try. Wishing you the best of luck.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Buzz:

I've chased this stuff for days. Take a break breathe and sometimes it will come to you what to try. Wishing you the best of luck.

Im starting to hate the pin hahahaha

If I disconect the +18v connector from the DMD, sound, dmd and Game keeps resetting.

If I disconect the small 2 wire connector, gnd and 5v from the DMD, I can Play a Game with sound perfectly.

So the problem is to have DMD and Soundb at the same time, with only one connected Game works great....

#10 1 year ago

My FT sound would start to rip at certain times and that ground not attached from my speaker to the ground grid inside cab did that. Again best of luck it is tuff sometimes.

#11 1 year ago

reflow all solder on ppd board, always causes all kinds of issues because of cold solder joints.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

reflow all solder on ppd board, always causes all kinds of issues because of cold solder joints.

I already done all the connectors, fuses and double checked today

Quoted from Buzz:

My FT sound would start to rip at certain times and that ground not attached from my speaker to the ground grid inside cab did that. Again best of luck it is tuff sometimes.

Found the same problem on mine, the ground string from the speaker was not attached, sadly didnt solve the problem.

Since the only stock condensers are C2,C3,C5 and C6 and they are unexpensive, and in someway related to 5V and 12V I'm going to replace them, or burn the machine and do a nice BBQ

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from waffen_spain:

Since the only stock condensers are C2,C3,C5 and C6 and they are unexpensive, and in someway related to 5V and 12V I'm going to replace them

This definitely would be what I do. No burnt pins on CN1?

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This definitely would be what I do. No burnt pins on CN1?

Nope, pins and connector are in great shape.

I will also do a mod sugested here, I will wire directly (daisy chain) the 4 big capacitors to the bridge rectifier, in some cases the traces are not working properly anymore, and its an easy mod to do and undo.

I'm going to buy the condensers today and will post here the results.

#15 1 year ago

It looks like you are going through the right steps. Next I would look to make sure everything is properly grounded. Not exactly sure how to test that.

#16 1 year ago

I would think the power supply is probably the culprit. Do you have another one you can swap in? I have had similar problems with segas and DE's and it was usually the power supply causing problems. Try wiggling around the 12 piece connector on the power supply. That not being seated properly can cause random problems like you are having.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Boat:

It looks like you are going through the right steps. Next I would look to make sure everything is properly grounded. Not exactly sure how to test that.

Dont know... maybe looking to have low resistance on all the grounds? I will do a quick check

Quoted from Don44:

I would think the power supply is probably the culprit. Do you have another one you can swap in? I have had similar problems with segas and DE's and it was usually the power supply causing problems. Try wiggling around the 12 piece connector on the power supply. That not being seated properly can cause random problems like you are having.

I have a Maverick buried somewhere in my garage hahahahaha, but I don't want to move all the other pins to reach that one

Already reflow solder on the 12pin connector, verified the pins, cleanead with fiberglass eraser....

Sadly until Monday I will not have the condensers needed, so I will let Frankenstein rest for a couple of days

#18 1 year ago

Yea maybe verify ground braid is connected to the board areas. Test continuity with a beep test for some of the ground points on the board through referencing the schematic?

#19 1 year ago

Replaced all the PS capacitors... Still nothing.

If I disconect the Soundboard I can Play a complete Game, but DMD resets sometimes.

If I disconnect the DMD I can Play a complete Game and sound works perfect.

So.... Since I replaced the DMD connectors already, what do you think? DMD board??

Ive found a texto that Will point that my Soundboard is not resetting:

"Also, when both flippers are simutaneously used during a game, the dot matrix display can reset, (but the CPU may not!). This will display the display board ROM revision level and the initial power-on sound board tones/speech"

So, everytime DMD boots plays the Soundboard poweron speech :/

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from Boat:

Yea maybe verify ground braid is connected to the board areas. Test continuity with a beep test for some of the ground points on the board through referencing the schematic?

Next thing Im going to do...

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from waffen_spain:

Ive found a texto that Will point that my Soundboard is not resetting:
"Also, when both flippers are simutaneously used during a game, the dot matrix display can reset, (but the CPU may not!). This will display the display board ROM revision level and the initial power-on sound board tones/speech"

That is great, but what is the suggestion for it? Have a link to this?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

That is great, but what is the suggestion for it? Have a link to this?

Here!

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index3.htm#dots

I believed I had a soundboard + DMD reset, but looks like only the DMD is having problems, thanks to that text I know that DMD boot secuence includes asking sb to do the callout "FRANKENSTEIN!"

#23 1 year ago

Cool sounds like the dmd board needs the attention.

#24 1 year ago

What is your 5 volts measuring ?

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Cool sounds like the dmd board needs the attention.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

What is your 5 volts measuring ?

Well, yesterday I got a little upset with this issue and I already have the pin on my van, ready to take it to a tech service....

But.... WTF I cant sleep, I started to check the Sega Bulletin 106, my DMD has the mod done, but the connector used is the "optional C5" instead of the recommended CN6, f*ck now I need to know if there is any difference...

Looking at the PS schematics I see that the 5V at CN5 and CN6 came from the same trace at the board, so, no difference here, BUT, BIG BUT:

. Ground used at CN5 is the same used at CN4 for LAMPS and SOLENOIDS.... and the ground from CN6 is used for LOGIC GROUND...

Since some of you suggested a ground problem... Im tempted to unload the pin and mod the connector to take +5V and Ground from CN6 instead and CN5 :/

#26 1 year ago

I would make sure it is connected to CN6.

1 month later
#27 1 year ago

Well... today I've got my MSF ready, and the problem was not on the boards...

You know that servo that moves the Franky head? well it was dead so I replaced it with a NEW one, it works nice and still does, but... the Motherf**** makes the game reset everytime it moves.

So finally the problem was solved by replacing AGAIN the servo, I hope it doesnt get bad again as the old one, worked well for months.

Sometimes you find the problem faaaar away the place you are searching at.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from waffen_spain:

At PowerSupply Board:
. Replaced x4 4700mdf capacitors at C11 to C14
. Reflow solder at CN1, CN2 and other connectors related, also cleaned pins with a fiberglass eraser.
. Replaced damaged/burnt pins and connectors
. Reflow the DB1 bridge rectifier (+5V, +12-12V unreg)

Just to make sure I didn't miss anything, did you replace all the capacitors on the power supply? Typically 5volts drops out at random times due to C2 (100uf 25v or higher) electrolytic capacitor leaks and/or fails. So I would replace C2 and all the other capacitors soon. Trace under this C2 and another capacitor, I cannot think of right now, can leak and eat away at the trace/pad under it.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Just to make sure I didn't miss anything, did you replace all the capacitors on the power supply? Typically 5volts drops out at random times due to C2 (100uf 25v or higher) electrolytic capacitor leaks and/or fails. So I would replace C2 and all the other capacitors soon. Trace under this C2 and another capacitor, I cannot think of right now, can leak and eat away at the trace/pad under it.

Yeah, replaced all the capacitors, verified traces and put a new rectifier Bridge...

Tried boards and DMD from another Sega pin and found the problem was not on the boards but on the cabinet....

Finally disconected the connector used for the Bill acceptor and servo... And voila!

#30 1 year ago

Does you sound board have a hum? Do you have any mods running off 5 volts
Sounds like you may have too much running off the 5 volt's.
Does your game reset if you unplug the power to the sound board?

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from waffen_spain:

Finally disconected the connector used for the Bill acceptor and servo... And voila!

When was this bill acceptor running?

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

When was this bill acceptor running?

NEVER, my pin only has the wires, but not an actual Bill acceptor, pin shares the wires with the servo

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from wdennie:

Does you sound board have a hum? Do you have any mods running off 5 volts
Sounds like you may have too much running off the 5 volt's.
Does your game reset if you unplug the power to the sound board?

Nope, clear sound, and game runs perfect if I disconnect DMD or sound board.

Now with the new servo I can Play with all boards connected, and no problem, looks like the 3 months old servo is working but asking too much juice or doing some kind of shortcircuit....

#34 1 year ago

Ever consider just adding a additional power supply for the sound board?
Like DE the fix for sound problems/ hum. this would give the extra juice.

#35 1 year ago
Quoted from wdennie:

Ever consider just adding a additional power supply for the sound board?
Like DE the fix for sound problems/ hum. this would give the extra juice.

I was focused on fixing the problem, using an external PS was not an option for me, that would be cheating hahahaha.

1 month later
#36 1 year ago

what was the fix?

#37 1 year ago

It was magic

5 months later
#38 11 months ago

No magic involved, if you read my last 2 posts here, you will find that the motor that moves the monster head was the problem.

Looks like the motor sometimes was asking too much juice from the PS

#39 11 months ago
Quoted from tj928:

what was the fix?

Hi!

2 post before yours is the answer, a bad motor, the one that moves the monster head, with the new motor I ever had problems again, I just found the problem thanks to desperation hahahaha, disconnection everything that goes to the PS...

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