(Topic ID: 247300)

Sega display defect


By HarrieD

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

Hi guys,

Got a batman where the display is completely fokt. One of the shift register ic's is burnt down leaving a massive burnspot on the pcb which renders it to a total loss. So it's time for a new display.

There are several options:

- color DMD (expensive and only available in led)
- smart DMD (needs a lot of work and I'm looking for a plug and play option)
- Pinball SP
- PIN2DMD

Both Pinball SP as PIN2DMD are plug and play. What I want to know is if one of both or maybe both have colorization files available for Sega Batman or that I need to add some colorization myself. Second question is which option is more user friendly to colorize and/or to setup.

Thanks!

#2 1 year ago
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#3 1 year ago
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#4 1 year ago

Data East small display? If you were closer I have 2 NOS

#5 1 year ago

Nope. Sega large ones. 192*64

#6 1 year ago

If I were you, I would go for pinballsp. fair prices and good quality, and if you want you can very easy change the colors on the display.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from dwightheinink:

If I were you, I would go for pinballsp. fair prices and good quality, and if you want you can very easy change the colors on the display.

I contacted them already but I am wondering which setup will cost me the least effort and maybe has some colorisation files available. The optimum situation is that i can plug in the new display and can add some sort of colorisation file for that setup.

The difference in cost between the two is marginal.

Also I am wondering which setup has been adopted better, as in: which has a longer life cycle.

#8 12 months ago

Going to try to solder the new chip myself. Six traces are burnt down so I need to recreate that somehow.
The image:

Red = output lines, all intact
Yellow = Data in/out, all intact
Green = not connected
Black = need to be re-created.

Pin 21 = NC, nothing to do here
Pin 22 = CLK
Pin 23 = GND
Pin 24 = VPP (high voltage, max 80V)
Pin 25 = VDD (5 volt)
Pin 26 = Latch enable

So, bend pins 22 to 26 over to extend the chip and SMD solder the rest like normal. Then connect the pins to the same pins of an adjecent chip. GND and +5V will be connected to the powersupply part of the display pcb.

Wish me luck!

bfdisplaychip2 (resized).jpg
1 month later
#9 10 months ago

Repair is done, IC has been soldered on with a normal soldering iron, must say that is wasn't easy but doable.
The result is shown in the second picture.

So, what's next? The driver ic's are cascaded, meaning that the data goes to the first IC and from there further to the second. So IC 1 recieves the data in the data input and sends it via data output to the second IC's data input.

There are 6 ic's mounted, each with 32 outputs in the raster (hence the 192 lines). The first two are working fine (the second ic is the one I replaced meaning my work is done correctly).

Section 3 is blank, sections 4 to 6 are all "on". This tells me that the 3rd ic in the cascade is defective.
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#10 10 months ago

And succes.

Replaced the next ic and booom, a working display. Not the most neat job I delivered but hey, given the circumstamces.
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#11 10 months ago
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#12 10 months ago

This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on Pinside. You had an original board that looked plenty toasted that many would have said to scrap or assumed couldn't be fixed. You listed potential display alternatives you were considering and your observations on them, with a few very specific questions about them. That info is enough for anyone in a similar situation to make an informed decision about replacement boards much faster than trying to figure it out on their own, you've already presented a solution for the problem.

Then you took it further and decided to go for the repair, and you pulled it off, and fixed the original burnt component, which then revealed the real culprit that caused the first component to go out, fixed that and now you have a working original display. You've proven that a board with bad traces can be repaired to working condition. The pics and info and the methods you used are very well detailed.

A+++ would read again. I almost feel like I'm not even on Pinside right now, there's not even a single insult thrown at anyone in the responses by anyone who participated either.

#13 10 months ago

Great job !! Congratulations !

#14 10 months ago

Well done. I've got a spare large DMD that had a similar blowout. Mine sort of "works" in a clinical sense, obviously has issues that I've been unable to resolve. You've given me renewed interest, given the possibility that it might actually be repairable.

Edit: Can anyone tell me what that chip is? I've searched for 78L058 and not come up with much. Is there an interchangeable part #?


dmd (resized).jpg

#15 10 months ago

Please post some more pics of your display. What is the brand? Dale, cherry or vishay?

I think we can narrow it down with some effort.

#16 10 months ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on Pinside. You had an original board that looked plenty toasted that many would have said to scrap or assumed couldn't be fixed. You listed potential display alternatives you were considering and your observations on them, with a few very specific questions about them. That info is enough for anyone in a similar situation to make an informed decision about replacement boards much faster than trying to figure it out on their own, you've already presented a solution for the problem.
Then you took it further and decided to go for the repair, and you pulled it off, and fixed the original burnt component, which then revealed the real culprit that caused the first component to go out, fixed that and now you have a working original display. You've proven that a board with bad traces can be repaired to working condition. The pics and info and the methods you used are very well detailed.
A+++ would read again. I almost feel like I'm not even on Pinside right now, there's not even a single insult thrown at anyone in the responses by anyone who participated either.

Thanks, you’re making me feel humble.

I’m a pin repair guy and I hate it when things go to waste. I wrote off this display so there was only something to gain here, the ic's were bought in China for like 10 euro's per 5. I wasted 2 of them in the process but so glad this turned out the way I wanted it to turn out. Spent more than four hours on the display but getting it back alive again was totally worth it.

#17 10 months ago
Quoted from HarrieD:

Please post some more pics of your display. What is the brand? Dale, cherry or vishay?
I think we can narrow it down with some effort.

Mine is a Cherry. I've already tried to find a better schematic on their website.

sega DMD (resized).jpg
#18 10 months ago

Looks like it's just an 7805 +5 volt power regulator. Probably you can replace it with a normal 7805.

#19 10 months ago

I’m not finding any 7805 voltage regulator that looks anything at all like that- not even the same number of legs. What is it that you’re thinking of? Again, all I have to work from is the grainy schematic in the manual

#20 10 months ago

SO-8 version of a 78L05.
Part number LM78L05ACM.
http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/lm78l

Pin 1 = Vout
Pin 2 = Gnd
Pin 3 = Gnd
Pin 4 = no connect
Pin 5 = no connect
Pin 6 = Gnd
Pin 7 = Gnd
Pin 8 = Vin

I'd find the schematics out on that to see what's going on there. See what R108 has to do with the circuit as it seems the heat came from him.

#21 10 months ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

SO-8 version of a 78L05.
Part number LM78L05ACM.
http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/lm78l
Pin 1 = Vout
Pin 2 = Gnd
Pin 3 = Gnd
Pin 4 = no connect
Pin 5 = no connect
Pin 6 = Gnd
Pin 7 = Gnd
Pin 8 = Vin
I'd find the schematics out on that to see what's going on there. See what R108 has to do with the circuit as it seems the heat came from him.

Thank you! Is that something you sell? It didn’t come up in a search of your website.

#22 10 months ago

A normal 7805.has 3 legs, Vin (pin 1), ground (pin 2) and Vout (pin 3).

As G-P-E stated the SMD variant of that regulator has 8 pins, 2 of them are not connected, 1 Vin, 1 Vout and 4 ground pins.
If I were you I would rebuild the burnt section with normal components, replace the resistor and the zener diode and see if this solvesnthe issue. Then you can see if SMD is doable with the damage on the board.

Good luck. Keep us in the loop.

#23 10 months ago

DE and Sega operator manuals always have DMD schematics for most of the different brands they used.

Here is for the Xlarge DMD for Batman Forever for example.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/3593/Sega_1995_Batman_Forever_Manual_with_schematics_duplicate_pages_33_34_missing_pages_143_144.pdf

page 116 Cherry DMD
page 117 Babcock DMD
page 118 Vishay/Dale

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