(Topic ID: 163804)

Sega 192x64 DMD - Is this fixable??


By Harvs

3 years ago



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  • 52 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Crash
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 3 years ago

Sold my Maverick a few months back and the gent that bought it said the DMD stopped working yesterday.. Well after having him check boards etc, he sent me these pics.

Not sure what could've caused this, but does it look repairable? Hopefully it is, those are pricey!!

Thanks

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#2 3 years ago

I'm no expert on boards. Just wanted to chime in. I don't know anybody that has been able to fix the large Sega displays.

My MSF dmd puked last year. I went the route of the DMD extender. Much cheaper and the color dmd is awesome!

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from bbaker2824:

I'm no expert on boards. Just wanted to chime in. I don't know anybody that has been able to fix the large Sega displays.
My MSF dmd puked last year. I went the route of the DMD extender. Much cheaper and the color dmd is awesome!

I will have to direct him to that. (is there a complete kit available?)

Sucks tho, this DMD was bright with no dots or lines out.. Guess it just wanted to take a wild sh!t randomly.. Toasty.

#4 3 years ago

I recommend the Dr Pinball setup kit, it's a little tricky but is a good product in the end...

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

I recommend the Dr Pinball setup kit, it's a little tricky but is a good product in the end...
» YouTube video

Will check it out, thanks.

#6 3 years ago

Looks like something in the supply blew in a very bad way. If the glass is good, electronics should be repairable but don't know how hard it is to get to the backside of the board (ie, do you have to remove the display from the board?). Also, is there a schematic of the display driver circuitry?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Looks like something in the supply blew in a very bad way. If the glass is good, electronics should be repairable but don't know how hard it is to get to the backside of the board (ie, do you have to remove the display from the board?). Also, is there a schematic of the display driver circuitry?

Yeah, it looks bad.. Damn.. Hopefully someone can answer that!

#8 3 years ago

Board is burnt through the top layer. I don't think anyone would repair it and still warrantee it.

What brand is it?

#9 3 years ago

My Baywatch dmd crapped out like that one. Local pin repair guru would not touch it. Like Maniac40 said, getting a warranty is almost impossible. So finding someone to fix and having to pay $200 while getting no warranty is too risky of rolling dice for most people

#10 3 years ago

I don't have the DMD in hand to check the brand, just the pics. Sold the machine months ago, worked perfect for him till the other day, then POOF! - Was hoping I could find a fix to save him some $$$.

I sent him links and info on the DMD extender along with PBL's new large DMD (once the site is back). Or I could look for a used DMD for him..

Sucks, that DMD costs basically 1/3 of the entire machine!!

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Harvs:

worked perfect for him till the other day, then POOF!

I'm pretty suspicious. Did he do any work on the game before it happened and was the power on?

#12 3 years ago

No work done. I sold it shopped fully functional. He said he's been playing it daily with no probs until this. Said he hasn't even taken the glass off.

Not that I give a warranty, but I will do my best to help him out. (He's not a pinhead/collector, just has this machine)

#13 3 years ago

I doubt you'll find anyone willing to touch the DMD.

So it seems the DMD extender will be a good choice here. I hope it is still available.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I doubt you'll find anyone willing to touch the DMD.
So it seems the DMD extender will be a good choice here. I hope it is still available.

Hope so too.

If not he will have to grab a new one.. Ouch!

#15 3 years ago

I also worry that something may have been damaged on the power supply. Can he get us a picture of it?

Can he still play a game?

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Harvs:

Sold my Maverick a few months back and the gent that bought it said the DMD stopped working yesterday.. Well after having him check boards etc, he sent me these pics.
Not sure what could've caused this, but does it look repairable? Hopefully it is, those are pricey!!
Thanks

Wow, I've never seen one fail like this before. Usually the panel will just die with no visual indication on the board. It appears you have at least two component failures, a capacitor and something else on the far right in that photo that looks burned to a crisp. Maybe a resistor? The electrolyte leaking from the capacitor looks to have done damage to the board. Vishay does repair these, but only certain contacts will allow you to do this. And that's if it's a Vishay, which I doubt. His only option at the moment is a DMD Extender. Have him look at this thread, it steps you through every detail. If he's not into a DIY solution then he needs to sell the game. This is literally the only option until the simpler PinballSP LED display kit becomes available.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-addams-family-poor-mans-color-dmd

Quoted from Jvspin:

Looks like something in the supply blew in a very bad way. If the glass is good, electronics should be repairable but don't know how hard it is to get to the backside of the board (ie, do you have to remove the display from the board?). Also, is there a schematic of the display driver circuitry?

Repairing these yourself is impossible because the glass will have to be removed, which is hundreds of tiny little connections. And I can't imagine it's cost effective either to have Vishay do it (again, it doesn't look like a Vishay) compared to a $250 DMD Extender solution.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

So it seems the DMD extender will be a good choice here. I hope it is still available.

It is. David can now be reached easily, you will be put on a short waiting list for about a month.

Quoted from Harvs:

If not he will have to grab a new one.. Ouch!

That won't be an option, these have been out of production for a long time and nobody has one, even for $500+. At that price it's nearly half the value of the machine.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I also worry that something may have been damaged on the power supply.

I doubt this, the display generates its own high voltage (+60v/+100v) from a low voltage +18v source coming from the game's power supply.

#17 3 years ago

Doesn't Mike D's smart DMD work with large Segas now? I think I heard someone saying that recently?

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I also worry that something may have been damaged on the power supply. Can he get us a picture of it?
Can he still play a game?

Yep, can still play blind.

Crash - It's a Babcock. - Doesn't PBL sell them? Their site is down but here's the cached version.

Not sure what a Mav would go for without the DMD? - And the guy really likes the game. What a shh!tty part to take a dump.. Rather it be any other board..

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#19 3 years ago

maybe he can buy the parts and you can help with putting the DMD extender together for him, will be less then half the cost of that new sega dmd and have more options,

i was slightly intimidated when i originally saw the extender but came back to it again after about a year and dove in head first, have all the parts now just neew to get it hooked up

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Harvs:

Yep, can still play blind.
Crash - It's a Babcock. - Doesn't PBL sell them? Their site is down but here's the cached version.
Not sure what a Mav would go for without the DMD? - And the guy really likes the game. What a shh!tty part to take a dump.. Rather it be any other board..

I've seen cases where these are listed as available but if you call them or add it to your cart they are not. Having a blown DMD is a big turn off to buyers. I can't exactly say what impact it will have value wise but the loss will probably exceed the value of the DMD.

Even if PBL has them for some reason they are not taking orders until the end of the month. He can order an Extender and have all the other parts in hand by the time the Extender board ships/arrives.

SmartDMD is an option too but the software is very buggy. It's been a big problem for me.

#21 3 years ago

I have no problem doing all the work to get the DMD extender functional. Only issue is that the machine is 4hrs away. Can it be tested on a LOTR or Road Show so it's plug and play for him, or is Mav necessary to do this?

And not 100% sure PBL has them in stock. This all happened right after Wed when PBL went on shutdown. I can ask Terry.

Thanks fellas

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from Harvs:

Can it be tested on a LOTR or Road Show so it's plug and play for him, or is Mav necessary to do this?

You can test it on any of the games you have. Just be sure to change the display setting to Sega large 192x64 using the configuration utility on the SD card before disassembling the kit and sending it to him. You just won't be able to physically do a test fit because it's a larger 17.3" screen.

#23 3 years ago

DMD extender for sure is the smartest and most economical route at the moment. I did one in a Frankenstein. Hardest part was cutting the wood panel and that only took 10 minutes.

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#24 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

You can test it on any of the games you have. Just be sure to change the display setting to Sega large 192x64 using the configuration utility on the SD card before disassembling the kit and sending it to him. You just won't be able to physically do a test fit because it's a larger 17.3" screen.

Nice, will relay all this info.

Hope all the goods are available to build it up like that.. The search begins..

Thanks again y'all

#25 3 years ago

Check out my thread, I list all the parts and assembly details.

#26 3 years ago

I blew the regulator on mine, you can not get to the solder side, so I surface mounted a new one soldering wires to what I could....been working good for a few years now. Keep an eye out for a WMS "Dotmation" slot machine, they use the same DMD. I actually just passed on one for $100 recently (It was an "X Factor", I have that slot and that game burns in bad on the Dmd... Anyway, those slots usually go cheap when the PS craps out ( easy fix), but good score for the Dmd.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from Irishbastard:

I blew the regulator on mine, you can not get to the solder side, so I surface mounted a new one soldering wires to what I could....been working good for a few years now. Keep an eye out for a WMS "Dotmation" slot machine, they use the same DMD. I actually just passed on one for $100 recently (It was an "X Factor", I have that slot and that game burns in bad on the Dmd... Anyway, those slots usually go cheap when the PS craps out ( easy fix), but good score for the Dmd.

I've been looking everywhere for a WMS Dotmation slot and can't find one.

Isn't ColorDMD coming out with a large LED display? I guess I'm not positive on that but I thought I read that somewhere.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

Isn't ColorDMD coming out with a large LED display? I guess I'm not positive on that but I thought I read that somewhere.

LED display coming out will be 128x32, not the large DMD size.

#29 3 years ago

PinballSP has a large display kit in the works.

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from Irishbastard:

I blew the regulator on mine, you can not get to the solder side, so I surface mounted a new one soldering wires to what I could....been working good for a few years now. Keep an eye out for a WMS "Dotmation" slot machine, they use the same DMD. I actually just passed on one for $100 recently (It was an "X Factor", I have that slot and that game burns in bad on the Dmd... Anyway, those slots usually go cheap when the PS craps out ( easy fix), but good score for the Dmd.

I'm getting this fried DMD in the mail this week. Going to see what I can do.

I didn't even think about the WMS Dotmation machines! I'm in the slot hobby and know plenty of people... gonna make some calls!

Thanks

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

PinballSP has a large display kit in the works.

what is PInballSP?

#34 3 years ago

Ok, have the DMD in hand. Does anyone happen to have a Babcock DMD laying around that can take a pic of what was here in the pic?
(Z2 - Zener diode I assume.) Or does anybody have a schematic of some sort on this toasty thing? (Babcock GD-064D192-01C)

Thanks for any help!

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#35 3 years ago

Schematic is in the Maverick manual page 88.
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1561/Data_East_1994_Maverick_Full_Manual.pdf

DE and Sega were very good about including the display schematics of all brands the games originally shipped with.

#36 3 years ago

I agree with Crash as I look over the display board more and more. The electrolyte out of one or more of the capacitors leaked out (which is conductive) and crossed 2 voltages or one voltage and ground. Likely what you see will be a resistance between the voltages/ground internally of the PCB so there will be nothing you can do to repair the board.

I'm sure you could cut traces and run the wire and components off the board to isolate the board. I had to do that with three small Capcom DMD power boards already.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I agree with Crash as I look over the display board more and more. The electrolyte out of one or more of the capacitors leaked out (which is conductive) and crossed 2 voltages or one voltage and ground. Likely what you see will be a resistance between the voltages/ground internally of the PCB so there will be nothing you can do to repair the board.
I'm sure you could cut traces and run the wire and components off the board to isolate the board. I had to do that with three small Capcom DMD power boards already.

Was going to try that 'off board' repair. A clear pic of what a good board looks like, the schematic (hard copy, IPDB zoom doesn't do much) and I can fire up my welder! Worth a shot I think?

This thing did take a massive dump though, stinks!

#38 3 years ago

Harvs, what is the resistance measurement of P1 where the red/black plug into?P1_(resized).png

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from Harvs:

Was going to try that 'off board' repair. A clear pic of what a good board looks like, the schematic (hard copy, IPDB zoom doesn't do much) and I can fire up my welder! Worth a shot I think?
This thing did take a massive dump though, stinks!

Can be possible. Need to see exactly what voltage(s) shorted or voltage to ground that caused the board to burn. From that, the schematics will show us everything that will have to be part of the 'off board' repair. All new Electrolytic caps will be needed, but at least now you can choose to purchase axial caps instead of radial caps to help prevents accidental shorts across the capacitors.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Harvs, what is the resistance measurement of P1 where the red/black plug into?

That trace from the pin is completely toasted, it melted away. All other burnt traces are toasty but are making their connections/runs it seems, just started to check.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from Harvs:

That trace from the pin is completely toasted, it melted away. All other burnt traces are toasty but are making their connections/runs it seems, just started to check.

Right, but measure that trace to ground (black wire). If is less than 300 ohms, that voltage is shorted. Just a guess, I would believe this voltage to ground likely should be 2k ohms or higher.

I have a nice display in a box that I cannot test in a machine, due to lack of one, I can measure tonight to see what resistance I have on it. I bought it off Ebay and it looks brand new. I was planning on keeping it for a future project.

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can be possible. Need to see exactly what voltage(s) shorted or voltage to ground that caused the board to burn. From that, the schematics will show us everything that will have to be part of the 'off board' repair. All new Electrolytic caps will be needed, but at least now you can choose to purchase axial caps instead of radial caps to help prevents accidental shorts across the capacitors.

After a little cleaning it looks like maybe the cap closest to P1 leaked and shorted + (on P1) to - on that cap. That entire area is melted away, same with the Z2 diode. - I'm no guru with this so I apologize for my terminology.

C46 (upper left cap) has leaking going on also, and it was not in direct heat from this. Almost looks like it rusted the trace a bit underneath.

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#43 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Right, but measure that trace to ground (black wire). If is less than 300 ohms, that voltage is shorted. Just a guess, I would believe this voltage to ground likely should be 2k ohms or higher.
I have a nice display in a box that I cannot test in a machine, due to lack of one, I can measure tonight to see what resistance I have on it. I bought it off Ebay and it looks brand new. I was planning on keeping it for a future project.

Ohms - 00.5 on the 2 center pins, 152.2 on the far right pin.

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from Harvs:

Ohms - 00.5 on the 2 center pins, 152.2 on the far right pin.

I really was hoping to see what the trace from the red wire to ground measured. You'll have to measure it were the trace still exists going to any of the capacitors.

I ended up getting home later from a pinball tournament later than I expected. I'll measure the DMD I have later this evening after I get home from work. Assuming someone does not beat me to it.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I really was hoping to see what the trace from the red wire to ground measured. You'll have to measure it were the trace still exists going to any of the capacitors.
I ended up getting home later from a pinball tournament later than I expected. I'll measure the DMD I have later this evening after I get home from work. Assuming someone does not beat me to it.

I took the DMD to a friend that has worked with electronics for years.. He said the burns went through to the other side and looks to have messed up those traces as well. Only way to really see how bad is to remove the board from the glass..

Moving on to another option.

Thank you and everyone else for the tips.

#46 3 years ago

I'm pretty much the DMD Extender go-to guy. If you need any help shoot me a PM. I see these large Sega DMD threads about once a month and have become quite familiar with things.

1 month later
#47 3 years ago

Well, I picked up a Cherry DMD from a WMS slot, no luck. It has a dark corner as seen and this is all I get when tested in a Batman.. If anyone is interested in buying this DMD let me know, I give up on trying to fix another..

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2 weeks later
#48 3 years ago

Bump. What did you end up doing?

#49 3 years ago

Finally did it!
No dmc-extender or other monitor-based replacement!

More info here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/who-needs-a-sega-192x64-replacement#post-3284425

Greetings,
Dom

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Bump. What did you end up doing?

I had gotten 2 DMDs from WMS slots, 1 works enough (lines out, slow refresh?) for now. Sad part is these POS DMDs cost $150 a pop "TESTED WORKING 100%", and the guy that sold them disappeared, joker..

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