(Topic ID: 318595)

Seeking ideas: tournament structure for non pinheads

By Riefepeters

1 year ago


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    #1 1 year ago

    First, I am not a tournament player. I am not a league player. With 7 kids I’m limited in “out” time but I’m blessed with a decent line up in my basement. I’d like to share these pins with friends ands employees but often times people come over, they play a game or two and move on from the arcade. It’s crazy.

    I’d like to have some kind of mini tournament or something to engage the group a bit more. So looking for ideas on structure here.

    I’d like to host our employees here (6-12 people) and include a pinball tournament as one activity. I’ve got 13 games in one room that I’d like to use.

    Thoughts? Ideas?

    I’m hoping I can take some of these ideas for gentlemen evenings as well.

    Thanks all!

    #2 1 year ago

    Pingolf?
    Zen tournament?

    #3 1 year ago

    Pingolf with a score threshold as the goal. Keep it low. The worst that can happen is people get hole in one and feel great about themselves. You just want guests to have fun. Don’t make it last too long either. With 12 ppl and 13 games you can easily over do it. An hour tops for non pinheads. So you may need to use fewer games. Fun prizes for winners.

    I’ve also done a thing where the rule “put up a high score on any game and win a prize from the grab bag” and bag has namely nip liquor bottles. And of course set the default high scores all very low before the party.
    This is a way to encourage periodic play without having an “event”.

    Have fun. Let us know how it goes!

    #4 1 year ago

    I've had success with using the pingolf format at my show for both beginners and experienced players.

    Here's the format and rules that were used:

    https://pinballsaratoga.com/show-details/tournament/#Format

    A round of 9 holes/games seems to take a group of 4 about 90 minutes to complete.

    #5 1 year ago

    I like the easy Pin Golf recommend. 5-6 holes would be plenty. Maybe pair it with a high score challenge on 1-2 other games.

    #6 1 year ago

    Parent/kid teamup tournament (Could be Husband/Wife as well.)

    "Stall-ball"

    A "flip frenzy" is a good timed event. https://matchplay.events/handbook/flip-frenzy

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from chas10e:

    Parent/kid teamup tournament (Could be Husband/Wife as well.)
    "Stall-ball"
    A "flip frenzy" is a good timed event. https://matchplay.events/handbook/flip-frenzy

    Hah, I forgot about stall ball. That one is a blast.

    #8 1 year ago

    Thank you for the suggestions! I’m glad the formats got linked as I had to read up, and then some of the added on suggestions make much more sense. I do like this pin golf idea quite a bit!

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from Riefepeters:

    often times people come over, they play a game or two and move on from the arcade. It’s crazy.

    You'll find this is a common issue overall, That Some/most people are just not that into playing pinball machines or arcade games.

    #10 1 year ago

    I'd just get a whiteboard and put up highscores

    #11 1 year ago

    Pin golf all day for non pinheads. It’s simple. Another thing to keep interest is to get some cheap “prizes”…lots of stuff you can do to make it fun.

    #12 1 year ago

    I'm a fan of the "3 strikes" tournament as played at the local Crabtown league.

    Everyone is paired off in groups of two and plays a game of what ever pin. You win or you lose. If you lose you get a strike. 3 Strikes and you are out.

    Round 1: 10 people, 5 groups of 2. 5 people have 1 strike at the end of the round.
    Round 2: 10 people, 5 groups of 2. The people with no strikes play other people with no strikes. The people with 1 strike play against people with 1 strike. Around 3 people with 2 strikes, 5 people with 1 strike, and 3 people with no strikes at end of the round.
    Round 3: 10 people, 5 groups of 2. The people with no strikes play against each other, with one play against each other, and with 2 play against each other. At the end of this round people who have not won any games are eliminated.

    This format is great as better players play against each other and worse players play against each other.

    If you do something like this, don't participate yourself with the noobs and run the tournament yourself. Maybe challenge the winner.

    #14 1 year ago

    Agree with Satan…3 strikes is a good idea and usually doesn’t take too long. Non pinheads can get a little bored or lose interest if a tournament takes too long.

    #15 1 year ago

    Probably not in the spirit of your question...but why not just let them play causality and BS while they hang out? I love pinball and that's still my favorite way to play. I don’t know that tossing a bunch of structure and time commitment around something that you have to explain to everyone is really going to engage them.

    If you really want to have an "activity" just give everyone like 5 poker chips and tell them if they play against someone and win they get a chip...whoever has the most when they leave gets a small prize.

    Not trying to be a downer ha but I can't think of a time when something I haven't really be interested in the first place became more fun to me when a bunch of rules and structure were thrown on top. Just let em flip for fun is my vote!

    #16 1 year ago

    The only times I’ve gotten non pinheads to play is by setting up a comp. They literally just look at the games only if I don’t do that.

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    The only times I’ve gotten non pinheads to play is by setting up a comp. They literally just look at the games only if I don’t do that.

    Yeah I guess that's what I mean ha. Like if I go to someone's house and they were like "its time for the dungeons and dragons tournament it will only take two hours!"...if I want to play by now I would have asked ya know? Anyway just my two cents...never had much luck getting people interested in something by forcing them to participate in it.

    #18 1 year ago

    I'd favor a simple group match play thing. Super simple to set up & run with matchplay.events - You can have the ongoing standings/matches/scores on a smart TV. Everybody plays in every round (versus eliminations in something like a strikes tournament) Way more straightforward/simple than pingolf.

    #19 1 year ago

    split flipper is great because you can pair off people who are new and people with a clue

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Yeah I guess that's what I mean ha. Like if I go to someone's house and they were like "its time for the dungeons and dragons tournament it will only take two hours!"...if I want to play by now I would have asked ya know? Anyway just my two cents...never had much luck getting people interested in something by forcing them to participate in it.

    Who’s forcing anyone? They are always into it. That’s why I do it. They don’t know what to do, but appreciate direction.

    Setting up a split flipper tournament that takes a hour is a good way to hang and learn about pinball.

    YMMV

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Who’s forcing anyone? They are always into it. That’s why I do it. They don’t know what to do, but appreciate direction.
    Setting up a split flipper tournament that takes a hour is a good way to hang and learn about pinball.
    YMMV

    Maybe forcing isn't the best word? You have a bunch of people over to your house you work with and then plan a tournament...maybe it will be advertised as a tournament so people only come if they are interested?

    I've never had luck getting non pinball people into pinball by asking them to come play a bunch of pinball. People that come over are always welcome to play, some do, some don't. Some love it, some play a game and go "meh" and go back upstairs.

    I guess I assume like as OP said if people play a game or two and leave...they're presumably doing that because they don't want to play anymore. If someone comes to my house and doesn't play pinball or plays a game and loses interest...is asking them to play more pinball, for longer, with rules and structure really going to be fun for them? I guess it could happen? It sounds Iike these people have been exposed to pinball already and aren't interested?

    Anyway, not trying to derail this but just thinking about other people. If I went to someone's house before and clearly wasn't interested in X activity/hobby...it's because I wasn't interested. But YMMV also, maybe everyone gets converted, who knows I guess.

    #22 1 year ago

    I did something similar for work people at my local arcade - with 80 pins on site. I picked about 6-8 games, and tried to pick different stuff. Banzaii run for the backbox PF, spiderman because the rules were easy, medieval madeness because it's a classic, JJP Pirates because its pretty, etc.

    I set a time limit of an hr, and had my laptop there with a spreadsheet. Honor system. Play as many games as you wanted in the hour. Keep track of your score. Players could look to see what other peoples scores were and try to best them if they were able. End of the hour - play offs bracket style. Everyone loved it.

    #23 1 year ago

    Not sure what it’s called but I played this at CO Bar in Frisco, CO and have now done it twice as beginner tourney for my coworkers. It goes over very well with my coworkers:
    - players play in groups of 3 or 4 each round
    - winner of group gets 0pts, 2nd in group gets 1, 3rd gets 2, 4th gets 3.
    - once you have X pts, you’re out.
    - after each round players are reseated for next game.
    - I’ve played with 7pt cap. Players typically start being eliminated in rounds 4&5. Final is usually completed in round 8 or 9.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Maybe forcing isn't the best word? You have a bunch of people over to your house you work with and then plan a tournament...maybe it will be advertised as a tournament so people only come if they are interested?
    I've never had luck getting non pinball people into pinball by asking them to come play a bunch of pinball. People that come over are always welcome to play, some do, some don't. Some love it, some play a game and go "meh" and go back upstairs.
    I guess I assume like as OP said if people play a game or two and leave...they're presumably doing that because they don't want to play anymore. If someone comes to my house and doesn't play pinball or plays a game and loses interest...is asking them to play more pinball, for longer, with rules and structure really going to be fun for them? I guess it could happen? It sounds Iike these people have been exposed to pinball already and aren't interested?
    Anyway, not trying to derail this but just thinking about other people. If I went to someone's house before and clearly wasn't interested in X activity/hobby...it's because I wasn't interested. But YMMV also, maybe everyone gets converted, who knows I guess.

    I just ask people if the want to play split flipper. They’ve always said yes after they understand what it is.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from curban:

    Not sure what it’s called but I played this at CO Bar in Frisco, CO and have now done it twice as beginner tourney for my coworkers. It goes over very well with my coworkers:
    - players play in groups of 3 or 4 each round
    - winner of group gets 0pts, 2nd in group gets 1, 3rd gets 2, 4th gets 3.
    - once you have X pts, you’re out.
    - after each round players are reseated for next game.
    - I’ve played with 7pt cap. Players typically start being eliminated in rounds 4&5. Final is usually completed in round 8 or 9.

    This is called progressive strikes.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    I just ask people if the want to play split flipper. They’ve always said yes after they understand what it is.

    It's a good causal and fun format for sure, but my point is unless you are having an event to specifically play pinball...why even ask people to play who clearly aren't interested? Why not just let them go do what they want?

    Totally agree that if someone says "I'm having a pinball party come over and play", I'd assume everyone was down to play pinball. If you just have people over to hang out or whatever and they aren't interested in playing...why keep asking them to play. It's ok for people to not want to play pinball.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    This is called progressive strikes.

    Thanks.

    This works well for my non-pin coworkers because each round seems to turn out to be a friendly social multiplayer game. I made an excel worksheet to manage the tourney and it always reseeds players to current ranking…so nobody is consistently overmatched.

    …also it keeps just 4 to 6 machines playing at a time, so I worry less about tripping a breaker!

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    It's a good causal and fun format for sure, but my point is unless you are having an event to specifically play pinball...why even ask people to play who clearly aren't interested? Why not just let them go do what they want?
    Totally agree that if someone says "I'm having a pinball party come over and play", I'd assume everyone was down to play pinball. If you just have people over to hang out or whatever and they aren't interested in playing...why keep asking them to play. It's ok for people to not want to play pinball.

    I usually do this at family events, sports parties, and used to when my daughter was younger and her friends parents were over.

    You won’t know if they aren’t interested until you ask them. Haven’t had someone decline split flipper yet.

    I’ve found the reason they aren’t playing is because they think they are gonna break them or something like that.

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    I usually do this at family events, sports parties, and used to when my daughter was younger and her friends parents were over.
    You won’t know if they aren’t interested until you ask them. Haven’t had someone decline split flipper yet.
    I’ve found the reason they aren’t playing is because they think they are gonna break them or something like that.

    Sure, agreed...but unless I'm reading too much into OPs post...these people have come over before, played a game or two, and then stopped. So clearly they know he has games, and they have a chance to play them, and opt not to continue playing them.

    The best analogy I can offer is my 2 buddies that are real into golf. We have had this exact conversation about 3 times a year for the past 5 years:

    Them: Hey do you want to come golf with us?

    Me: No thanks, it's hot, it's boring, I don't enjoy it, and it stresses me out having people waiting behind us. Plus it takes all day.

    Them: No it's fun! Come with us!

    Me: No, it's fun for you. I've tried it and don't like it, I'd rather do something else, it's not fun for me.

    Them: What if we play where we only play the best ball, then it doesn't matter if you're bad!

    Me: Well, that's still golf, so...no, I'm good. If I wanted to play golf...I would play golf.

    Anyway, we're going in circles. I'm glad it's been successful for you getting people into pinball, maybe OP will get some converts to the dark side.

    #30 1 year ago

    I like talking to people to see what they are or aren’t into. But everyone’s different.

    This is more like suggesting a new board game to the group imo.

    Oh and these people are still not into pinball, haha. They just have enjoyed split flipper when I’ve suggested it.

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    It's a good causal and fun format for sure, but my point is unless you are having an event to specifically play pinball...why even ask people to play who clearly aren't interested? Why not just let them go do what they want?
    Totally agree that if someone says "I'm having a pinball party come over and play", I'd assume everyone was down to play pinball. If you just have people over to hang out or whatever and they aren't interested in playing...why keep asking them to play. It's ok for people to not want to play pinball.

    Sometimes it's easier to engage people in a structured group activity, rather than letting them go off on their own to explore.

    #32 1 year ago

    I'm hosting a one handed tournament (July 24th at Bearmoose Brewing Co. in Everett Ma. if anybody here wants to join) that is going to be pretty interesting. We've got a few people signed up who are NOT pinheads or regular tournament players. While the flip frenzy part might get a little confusing, the one handed thing I think is going to be a hit. Really levels the playing field between really good and just okay players, and doing something as radical as forcing someone to use one hand really helps someone understand some of the geometry and control a little bit better.

    #33 1 year ago

    Recently I won a small tournament with a very basic setup that I enjoyed very much. Participants are grouped in groups of 4. The first four rounds they are playing in this group on four different machines. Each round the order of players rotates, so everybody plays first, second and so on. They play one game on each machine against each other. Winner hets 9 points, second place gets 6 points, third place 4, last place 2.

    After four rounds each player's points are totalled, resulting in a ranking. The best players continue in new groups of four for another round. From that round the two highest scores per game move on to the next round, and so on until there are only 2, 3, or 4 players left for the final.

    #34 1 year ago

    The more casual the format, the better, IMO. People can be turned off by competition. A team concept is helpful in that regard so I concur with the split-flipper suggestion. Also, it cuts the wait time by half which will also keep people engaged.

    Another thing you could try that is casual and a bit goofy would be to have a gauntlet relay. Pick some very simple/easy objectives (<30 seconds or so to achieve) on several machines and have your teams run the gauntlet and tag their teammate(s). Fastest time to completion wins.

    For single player competition you could mix in some stall ball. It is simple and frenetic but has the disadvantage of more waiting and elimination.

    If you decide to do pin-golf make sure the objectives are VERY EASY. People always seem to underestimate difficulty with pin-golf objectives.

    Whatever you decide, report back and let us know how it went!

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Maybe forcing isn't the best word? You have a bunch of people over to your house you work with and then plan a tournament...maybe it will be advertised as a tournament so people only come if they are interested?
    I've never had luck getting non pinball people into pinball by asking them to come play a bunch of pinball. People that come over are always welcome to play, some do, some don't. Some love it, some play a game and go "meh" and go back upstairs.
    I guess I assume like as OP said if people play a game or two and leave...they're presumably doing that because they don't want to play anymore. If someone comes to my house and doesn't play pinball or plays a game and loses interest...is asking them to play more pinball, for longer, with rules and structure really going to be fun for them? I guess it could happen? It sounds Iike these people have been exposed to pinball already and aren't interested?
    Anyway, not trying to derail this but just thinking about other people. If I went to someone's house before and clearly wasn't interested in X activity/hobby...it's because I wasn't interested. But YMMV also, maybe everyone gets converted, who knows I guess.

    I’m going for the same spirit of a scramble in golf. Lots of people would never play golf. But you throw them into a scramble as a company outing and it’s a blast and a half. Same concept here. My employees would not walk into a barcode and play pinball. But I’m fairly confident that a pin golf tourney as one component of a company outting will be a blast and enjoyed.

    I really appreciate all the ideas circulating. Some of these other ideas are going to work well with some of my buddies - most of whom think that the sole purpose of pinball is to not let the ball drain. I feel like most people walk away after a quick game because they have no idea what’s really going on…and the ball drained.

    I appreciate everyone’s ideas creating some fun events around the pins!

    #36 1 year ago

    I would consider very easy tasks for each game for pingolf.

    Like Metallica, shoot sparky once.

    Medieval madness, drop the drawbridge

    AFM, drop the visor.

    Stuff like that. Getting a certain score may seem too random to them.

    #37 1 year ago

    I used to have annual Halloween parties at my place and play horror themed pinball tournaments. The one that people talk to me about the most was the zombie pinball tournament.

    The format theme was when you lose a ball you get closer to being dead. There were four states of gameplay. Human, bitten, zombie and dead (out of the tournament). Each player has a card which tracks their loss/undeadly state during the tournament. Each loss brings the player closer to being knocked out of the tournament, but it also has the advantage of their game having more balls to be played during their game. After a player loses the third time, they are dead and out of the tournament.

    Human, state number one. Play all three balls on the game. Second game, play 2 balls. If you are STILL human playing your third game or later... you play a 1 ball game. If you lose a game as a human, mark your tourney card and play as bitten.

    Bitten, state number 2. The losing player would get a strike on their scorecard and be bitten. The next round played, bitten players would play with three balls the second round, and two ball games any round after that. Lose a game when bitten, you are now a zombie.

    Zombie, state number 3. Make sure that your card is marked as zombie indicating that you’ve had two lost games already. Zombies play with all three balls in their game. At this point you are into (at least) your third round of the tournament. Bitten players now play with 2 balls during the game, and humans play with one ball. This continues until there’s only four (or fewer) players left.

    The only thing that needs to be managed with this is that when players finish their games, they have to immediately get into a queue line to be matched up with their next opponent. The only caveat with appointments is that you can’t play the last appointment you did last time. So depending on how quickly or how long games take, you can end up with very different players playing each other.

    When the tournament gets to four players or less, everybody plays a single four player game and the four surviving players take their first, second, third and almost bronze place. As during the rest of the tournament, humans play with 1 ball, bitten players, play with 2 balls and zombie players play with 3 balls. The final scores determines tourney placing. Prizes and bragging rights are up to the tournament Director.

    I’m sure you could switch the theme around this for fun pinball tourney format quite easily. However, it was originally conceived for a spooky evening. It is great for a Halloween with people dressed up in their costumes and having a good time.

    Just make sure that people assign their name to their tournament ticket, and try to keep cycling players as quickly as possible back into the tournament. NO SMOKE BREAKS or any other non-vital interruption that could keep them off of the undead pinball path. Now when they’re dead after losing a game as a zombie, I made sure give participating players some sort of a treat. Food, a piece of candy, a drink, plastic vampire fangs that glow in the dark... something to make them feel the pinball party vibes. It’s all good fun and part of the Halloween celebrations!

    If someone complains about this format, I tell them that this is for fun. There are no wpprs involved and if you are a “human” playing 1 ball and a “zombie” playing 3 balls beats you, that’s part of the fun. This tournament format is not designed to be competitive. It is designed to equalize higher level players who encounter more casual players in a party like setting. If people are still complaining, roll your eyes and tell them that they’ve got a bad case of the seriousnesses.

    Because, I never do that...

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    #38 1 year ago

    Zombie Pinball sounds fun

    Quoted from grantopia:

    If you really want to have an "activity" just give everyone like 5 poker chips and tell them if they play against someone and win they get a chip...

    I've played "Pinball Poker before & was alright. At the time I wasn't as good as those I was playing against ...but

    Anyways, anti-up for your first ball as well as the other players, 2'nd ball you can bet another chip and raise ect. (same with 3'rd ball) or you can fold , go all-in ect

    .

    I've also heard of "Price is right" set a target score and do NOT go over that score ...NO tilting-out bonus either

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from Riefepeters:

    I’m going for the same spirit of a scramble in golf. Lots of people would never play golf. But you throw them into a scramble as a company outing and it’s a blast and a half. Same concept here. My employees would not walk into a barcode and play pinball. But I’m fairly confident that a pin golf tourney as one component of a company outting will be a blast and enjoyed.
    I really appreciate all the ideas circulating. Some of these other ideas are going to work well with some of my buddies - most of whom think that the sole purpose of pinball is to not let the ball drain. I feel like most people walk away after a quick game because they have no idea what’s really going on…and the ball drained.
    I appreciate everyone’s ideas creating some fun events around the pins!

    Teams of two. You could do alternate shot or split flipper. I agree with using very easy rule-based objectives rather than score based as chuckwurt stated.

    #40 1 year ago

    Let us know your lineup and we can make objective recommendations.

    #41 1 year ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    Let us know your lineup and we can make objective recommendations

    I’m definitely down for suggestions on the pingolf objectives. It will be interesting to hear suggestions and get a good check on what’s “attainable” to the non pinheads. Ashen chuckwort suggested dropping the visor on AFM I initially thought that seemed to easy and we should at least destroy a saucer, but I think you are right that the objective has to be “very easy” like just dropping the visor. You kind of forget that some of these tasks may not be a cake walk for folks!

    Titles available include:
    Ultraman
    ATtack from Mars
    Monster Bash
    Twilight zone
    Addams family
    Shadow
    Who Dunnit
    Johnny mnemonic
    Jurassic park pro
    Mandalorian pro
    Tmnt pro
    Star Wars pro
    Godzilla pro
    Munsters pre

    #42 1 year ago

    These tasks are listed easier to harder.

    Ultra-ween:
    Start a mode (center ramp)
    Rip a spinner on the top of
    Start multiball from the 3 holes on the left

    Afm:
    destroy a saucer
    Start multiball from center ramp (easy settings)
    Start martian attack

    Mb:
    Start any monster
    Start Frankenstein multiball
    Start mosh pit multiball

    Tz:
    Start a mode
    Lock a ball from either multiball
    Get to the upper playfield
    Start any multiball

    Taf:
    Hit the train
    Start 2 modes
    Spell greed
    Start multiball

    Shadow:
    Start a mode.
    get to the upper pf.
    Start main multiball
    Start vengeance

    Who Dunnit:
    Get off on an elevator floor
    Start roulette
    Solve a mystery
    Start any multiball

    Johnny mnemonic:
    Start super spinner
    Get to the glove
    Start Yakuza strike

    Jurassic park pro
    Start t Rex
    Start a mode
    But the ramp from the upper flipper
    Capture a finosaur

    Mandalorian pro:
    Start razor multiball
    Get to the upper playfield (skill shot!)
    Spell child

    Tmnt pro:
    Start multiball
    Shoot under the upper flipper
    1-2-3

    Star Wars pro:
    Don't play star wars pro
    Start time fighter button bash
    Start any mode
    Boost playfield x to 20x

    Godzilla pro
    Start main multiball
    Start a Kaiju battel
    Start mechaggojira
    Collect a saucer

    Munsters pre
    Start 2 characters
    Collect dragula
    Start crow
    Get to the lower pf

    Sometimes having multiple goals will make the tournament more interesting and easier for some.

    More than anything else, have fun!

    c2s

    #43 1 year ago

    C2c has a lot of good suggestions but some of them will be too hard.

    I would definitely try to incorporate the game’s main feature int the objective. Maybe for some you could adjust the settings to make them easier such as lowering the number of Frank Hits to open the ramp.

    Definitely include:
    achieve a mag a flip on TZ
    Use the glove on JM
    Achieve Thing flip on TAF

    Access upper playfield on TS
    Access mini playfield on MANDO

    #44 1 year ago

    Yeah I would make them easier.

    Monster bash. Just light Frank MB

    TZ - shoot the left or right ramp once

    Stuff like that.

    #45 1 year ago

    No tourney. Split flipper teams and Tommy Dollars on the glass. Doesn't hafta be real money, but more fun if it is. That way even the people not playing get in on hooting and hollering. The "dollars" could be like drink coupons or monopoly money good for various prizes. Team playas up with noobs. Lubricate with alcohol. Go.

    #46 1 year ago
    Quoted from fireball2:

    No tourney. Split flipper teams and Tommy Dollars on the glass. Doesn't hafta be real money, but more fun if it is. That way even the people not playing get in on hooting and hollering. The "dollars" could be like drink coupons or monopoly money good for various prizes. Team playas up with noobs. Lubricate with alcohol. Go.

    Before this thread, I hade never heard of split flipper. But I agree with you on this format with my drinking buddies. I will use it!

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