Quoted from RyanStl: people don't typically like to pay extra for other people's choices in mods; ColorDMD being the main exception.
I agree, but they still list for more. Machines with $500 in mods (that I rarely want) selling for an extra $800-$1k. When I see "heavily modded" I just move on because I don't want to pay for someone else's "good taste". Some people want pre-modded, which I don't understand. Maybe all mods are awesome and I just don't know it yet.
Quoted from TheLaw:One of the best coded games of all time.
Oooooo I love TWD and I'm super curious what makes you call it that?
Quoted from cait001:Oooooo I love TWD and I'm super curious what makes you call it that?
Everything in it is perfect.
Modes are simple but interesting in design and score, they lead to Multi Kills which points are decided on how well you do in modes; smart.
Modes also lead to supplies like crossbow which is a great payoff single shot.
Playfield/shot/ multipliers are awesome. They simply add up and can be cashed in for a massive shot bonus. You put a fat bonus like that on the crossbow shot? That's bad ass, a great feeling.
Add in some MBs & wizards; horde, terminus, LMS.
Yes, out of the pops can be a pain every once in awhile that is true, but small grievance.
But is TWD worth the same as a NIB game? My point is that ALL games except for the rare exceptions (the classics in restored condition) should lose value as time goes in. The problem is folks want their TWD to be worth as much as the newest release? And when I say TWD, you can replace with just about any Stern.
Quoted from arcyallen:I agree, but they still list for more. Machines with $500 in mods (that I rarely want) selling for an extra $800-$1k. When I see "heavily modded" I just move on because I don't want to pay for someone else's "good taste". Some people want pre-modded, which I don't understand. Maybe all mods are awesome and I just don't know it yet.
Sounds like a Stern Premium if you ask me…
Quoted from arcyallen:I understand you believe there's nothing left to talk about, the topic is static, and that's it's uninteresting.
In the meantime, there are those of us that believe, despite how much we know about any topic (including pinball), there's still more to understand.
Those of you that believe that can learn to use the search function or scroll down to last week's price bubble thread and post there.
If you think you haven't heard all there is to hear about pinball pricing you haven't bothered to read the other thousand threads about it.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:Those of you that believe that can learn to use the search function or scroll down to last week's price bubble thread and post there.
If you think you haven't heard all there is to hear about pinball pricing you haven't bothered to read the other thousand threads about it.
It is sad to see how much effort some people put into some topics on Pinside to stop those topics from being discussed. I can't imagine walking into a room holding a conversation that I'm not interested in, telling everyone they're idiotic and to stop talking, and walking out. Over and over. I wouldn't do this in real life, and I sure as hell wouldn't do it here.
Irony: Being told that if I want to hear ideas and discuss a topic, I must not have researched it. Nice!
If you think there are no new ideas, no new events, no knew data, and that you already "know everything", then I agree. Just rely solely on history, stop processing, and move on.
Quoted from arcyallen:It is sad to see how much effort some people put into some topics on Pinside to stop those topics from being discussed. I can't imagine walking into a room holding a conversation that I'm not interested in, telling everyone they're idiotic and to stop talking, and walking out. Over and over. I wouldn't do this in real life, and I sure as hell wouldn't do it here.
Irony: Being told that if I want to hear ideas and discuss a topic, I must not have researched it. Nice!
If you think there are no new ideas, no new events, no knew data, and that you already "know everything", then I agree. Just rely solely on history, stop processing, and move on.
Seeing the same threads pop up every week for the past 10 years will make anyone cynical, so check back in on this thread in 2027 and see if you have the same perception.
Levi’s cut and paste response has also become an inside joke, an institution here if you will, so no one should take it too personally. Most others just pile on to invoke his response.
I too believe everyone needs a primer on the search button. It can be useful in all things not just this topic.
If someone raised a truly new and unique observation or theory it would get the discussion it deserves. Everyone is still looking for it and that’s why we all open these threads.
Quoted from Black_Knight:Seeing the same threads pop up every week for the past 10 years will make anyone cynical, so check back in on this thread in 2027 and see if you have the same perception.
Levi’s cut and paste response has also become an inside joke, an institution here if you will, so no one should take it too personally. Most others just pile on to invoke his response.
I too believe everyone needs a primer on the search button. It can be useful in all things not just this topic.
If someone raised a truly new and unique observation or theory it would get the discussion it deserves. Everyone is still looking for it and that’s why we all open these threads.
If the litmus for posting is something that hasn’t been covered, there’d be about one new topic per year though.
thing is, clearly none of the "oh-so-wise-and-knowledgable search masters" bothered to actually read my post and instead dismissed this thread as "been-there, done-that" based solely on the headline. If they had read it, they would realize I'm trying to talk about the crypto crash and stock market adjustments that have happened in the last two months and how they might be affecting the pin market. Please direct me to the thread about THOSE subjects, wise ones.
Quoted from Black_Knight:If someone raised a truly new and unique observation or theory it would get the discussion it deserves. Everyone is still looking for it and that’s why we all open these threads.
I'm concerned that when someone raises a new observation it will get buried in this noise. If people are shouting "STOP POSTING ABOUT THIS!!!" it doesn't exactly make it welcoming for people to actually make new observations. I understand and appreciate anyone who's cynical about it. But we don't have to scream our feelings out loud every time we're triggered.
Quoted from JakeFAttie:I'm trying to talk about the crypto crash and stock market adjustments that have happened in the last two months and how they might be affecting the pin market. Please direct me to the thread about THOSE subjects
The horror of the month affecting how much disposable income is available for toys comes and goes. You're not breaking any new ground with your particular horror. People will still generally prioritize food and shelter over toys. The tens of thousands of posts on the subject are just as relevant today as they ever were.
Quoted from ForceFlow:No, probably half that. Most were project games, a few just needed shop jobs and minor repairs, and an even smaller number were actually plug & play ready.
Basically, I go for the dented cans to save a few bucks. But even those have been getting much harder to find with so many eyes searching for them.
Actual footage of Forceflow shopping for pins... Keep him away from your collection!
Quoted from Crile1:But is TWD worth the same as a NIB game? My point is that ALL games except for the rare exceptions (the classics in restored condition) should lose value as time goes in. The problem is folks want their TWD to be worth as much as the newest release? And when I say TWD, you can replace with just about any Stern.
But here is the issue. Not everyone wants just NIB games. Some people, even those who can afford NIB, want to have old games AND new games. I could have all new Sterns, but prefer having a mix of old and new. Godzilla may be the greatest game ever but I'd rather have Godzilla AND LOTR, STTNG, or Flash Gordon than Godzilla and Jurassic Park. Are the modern Sterns better than those older games on their own... of course! However, if you have more than one viva variety, and there are only so many of those old pins to go around.
Hey look, an actual proposed solution:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-master-pricing-market-conversation-thread#post-7027478
Quoted from Crile1:But is TWD worth the same as a NIB game? My point is that ALL games except for the rare exceptions (the classics in restored condition) should lose value as time goes in. The problem is folks want their TWD to be worth as much as the newest release? And when I say TWD, you can replace with just about any Stern.
The idea that most pins made the in the last ten years are selling for more than NIB is the biggest eye opener here. Of course I can hear the screams of "it's all been discussed before" but people glaze over this anomaly. This wasn't happening five, ten, or twenty years ago. I know some games might make sense to shoot up in value...but not most games.
Quoted from arcyallen:The idea that most pins made the in the last ten years are selling for more than NIB is the biggest eye opener here. Of course I can hear the screams of "it's all been discussed before" but people glaze over this anomaly. This wasn't happening five, ten, or twenty years ago. I know some games might make sense to shoot up in value...but not most games.
I think the best solution would be a graph that tracks a selected subset of pins representing the majority of eras, fed data from here and elsewhere. That's a lot of work, I know. But really, data is the only thing missing from these discussions. Too few data points.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:But here is the issue. Not everyone wants just NIB games. Some people, even those who can afford NIB, want to have old games AND new games. I could have all new Sterns, but prefer having a mix of old and new. Godzilla may be the greatest game ever but I'd rather have Godzilla AND LOTR, STTNG, or Flash Gordon than Godzilla and Jurassic Park. Are the modern Sterns better than those older games on their own... of course! However, if you have more than one viva variety, and there are only so many of those old pins to go around.
100% this, and many people feel the same. The hobby population has grown past the point of saturation so prices go up, basic economics. There aren't really any unloved solid state machines sitting in warehouses anymore. People are restoring their Stars and Galaxy and Genie machines, their Gottlieb Premier and street level games are getting played, heck the Gilligan's Islands and Popeye's are now appreciated by a wide swathe.
Is there a 6 month delay to buy a NIB? Some people might pay more for that Pro from a few years ago since it means buying it now. Not for you? Population is high enough that chances are someone will want it now.
We're already seeing the Prod benchmark decline a tad and some places are starting to have stock. We'll eventually get back to the point where a 2 year old Pro will regularly sell for $1k below NIB MSRP.
The pandemic demand peaked, but the decline will be slower than the rise.
Expect to see 2 year old games selling for NIB MSRP until your local distributor has a stock of AIQ, GZ, and TMNT etc machines ready to go for same day sales.
All pricing is supply and demand. Buyers set what the market will pay. Sellers don't, they can list a price but who knows if that sale will ever happen.
The pandemic response cut pinball supply and inflated demand for stay-at-home big-ticket items. Some of the demand is permanent; I'm part of that; my job went remote permanently and so I moved out of the city to a big house with room to start buying machines. That's what the thread is saying, there's more high end demand but high end supply hasn't changed.
Supply and demand for ordinary machines will revert to the mean. There's already a good amount of recently-produced machines like AIQ, Mando, Rush in stock at distributors. Stern is catching up over time. GZ's big backlog is an outlier for that particular title, not a new norm.
Older titles aren't going to revert in price, as long as demand keeps escalating with new buyers while supply never will. The likes of Addams, TZ, TSPP will never go down by any significant margin.
Quoted from JakeFAttie:I'm well aware the bargains are long gone, I'm really talking about what I'm seeing in the last month; tons of $10k+ games entering the used, private market. No idea what's going on with dealers, but brand new $7k stern is looking more and more like a good deal, if you can afford it.
The bargains are still there. You just aren’t doing the required work.
Quoted from RustyLizard:The bargains are still there. You just aren’t doing the required work.
Most bargains are going to be found on non-pinball specific sites or among friends. You're not going to find a "true" steal on pinside or the FB pinball groups. You're going to see someone on the generic FB marketplace posting something for 500 or 1000 bucks because they don't know what they have. You (or someone) either gets lucky, or more often it just turns into a silent auction with people offering the seller more, but still less than fair value. In the past few years I've picked up alot of games off FB for 500 or 1000 bucks, but you don't see those reported or tracked.
Alot more games change hands privately as well. A few collectors I'm close with locally all take care of each other because we know it comes back around. I haven't paid "market price" for a game in probably 3+ years. The deals are there but you're dead on...you ain't gonna find em here.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Everybody gets in it for fun, but it's impossible not to get caught up in the market aspects of it. It's always been this way, even Doctor Whos were going for $900. Everybody in pinball is absolutely obsessed with what things cost and that's always been the case.
It’s very possible to not get caught up in the market aspect of it. I’m for example sitting on some $50k in pinball machines that I bought for about $10k and could not care less how silly their value apparently is right now.
I do think it’s interesting where the market is heading but for me personally, what counts more than resale value is availability at MSRP. I don’t do >MSRP for non essential items so the market is a bit frustrating (tempered because I’m space constrained until 2023 so I can wait). I also don’t sell my games so resale value is pointless to me.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:There are not really interesting conversations to be had on this which is why this thread has 13 posts.
These conversations have all been had - conservatively estimated - 14.3 billion times.
What’s interesting about them? They are all exactly the same.
The conversation may be old and boring to you, but there are many of us who are new and are still seeking out answers and learning.
Quoted from grantopia:Most bargains are going to be found on non-pinball specific sites or among friends.....The deals are there but you're dead on...you ain't gonna find em here.
I agree. Picking up a complete game for 250 tomorrow. B-Title, and of course a bit of a project, but it's local and it wasn't on the radar. And I sell machines with trade +cash, so you are getting your next game at the same time you fund the parts needed to fix it. Fun
Quoted from MtnFrost:I agree. Picking up a complete game for 250 tomorrow. B-Title, and of course a bit of a project, but it's local and it wasn't on the radar. And I sell machines with trade +cash, so you are getting your next game at the same time you fund the parts needed to fix it. Fun
Ha picking up an unadvertised game myself in about a week I think. Networking is/has been huge for me. I know what games other friends are looking for and they know what I have my eye on, so generally we keep watch out for each other and buy/sell at pre-pinflation prices. Last game I picked up was a GoT pro from a friend for 4500. Sold 2 games to a different buddy at a friend price and picked that one up at a friend price.
Quoted from Mars304:The conversation may be old and boring to you, but there are many of us who are new and are still seeking out answers and learning.
Learn to use the search function. This isn't a fresh new topic that just came up today. There are literally hundreds of threads that already have the answers.
Count me on the side of liking these discussions. Pinball is a market, like any other. There's enough churn to justify continuing discussions. Telling folks to "use the search" for bubble discussions is about as relevant as telling folks to do the same for the stock market. Yes, prior results have some bearing, but are no future guarantee as they say.
If you don't like these threads, don't participate. I read them all.
Bonus: what's your best-ever pinball find? Mine was the $300 CV bought in 1999 from an arcade that put games on sale the day after Thanksgiving. CV was in the back, and "not working". If I'd take-it as-is, $300 cash and carry. Absolutely pristine. Blown 5V recitifer circuit. A $0.75 diode, and it was back in business....
Quoted from grantopia:Ha picking up an unadvertised game myself in about a week I think. Networking is/has been huge for me. I know what games other friends are looking for and they know what I have my eye on, so generally we keep watch out for each other and buy/sell at pre-pinflation prices. Last game I picked up was a GoT pro from a friend for 4500. Sold 2 games to a different buddy at a friend price and picked that one up at a friend price.
Sweet, find me a Grand Lizard. I got your back! I’m quite sick and tired of “the market” and would love to set up some deals for upcoming shows this fall.
Quoted from TheLaw:Of course you do, you're new. Whom the fuck cares boot what someone posted last week when you can just ask today; we get it.
New to pinside. Not to pins. Bought/restored/sold around 70 tables. Spent years on rgp. Had these discussions then, too. Quite welcoming back then. A bit less here. Thanks for your enlightened assumptions.
Quoted from DiabloRush:New to pinside. Not to pins. Bought/restored/sold around 70 tables. Spent years on rgp. Had these discussions then, too. Quite welcoming back then. A bit less here. Thanks for your enlightened assumptions.
I do miss the rec.games.pinball crowd. More helpful, less (but still a little!) of the stuff you don't need to read.
Quoted from snyper2099:Sweet, find me a Grand Lizard. I got your back! I’m quite sick and tired of “the market” and would love to set up some deals for upcoming shows this fall.
I’d love to have one too. One was just for sale in NY for 1500. Timing wasn’t right for me or I’d of tried to get it for 1200.
Quoted from DiabloRush:Count me on the side of liking these discussions. Pinball is a market, like any other. There's enough churn to justify continuing discussions. Telling folks to "use the search" for bubble discussions is about as relevant as telling folks to do the same for the stock market. Yes, prior results have some bearing, but are no future guarantee as they say.
If you don't like these threads, don't participate. I read them all.
Bonus: what's your best-ever pinball find? Mine was the $300 CV bought in 1999 from an arcade that put games on sale the day after Thanksgiving. CV was in the back, and "not working". If I'd take-it as-is, $300 cash and carry. Absolutely pristine. Blown 5V recitifer circuit. A $0.75 diode, and it was back in business....
Exactly...and not very friendly to newcomers
Quoted from DiabloRush:New to pinside. Not to pins. Bought/restored/sold around 70 tables. Spent years on rgp. Had these discussions then, too. Quite welcoming back then. A bit less here. Thanks for your enlightened assumptions.
Boom!
Quoted from TheLaw:Everything in it is perfect.
Modes are simple but interesting in design and score, they lead to Multi Kills which points are decided on how well you do in modes; smart.
Modes also lead to supplies like crossbow which is a great payoff single shot.
Playfield/shot/ multipliers are awesome. They simply add up and can be cashed in for a massive shot bonus. You put a fat bonus like that on the crossbow shot? That's bad ass, a great feeling.
Add in some MBs & wizards; horde, terminus, LMS.
Yes, out of the pops can be a pain every once in awhile that is true, but small grievance.
Ditto that. Awesome game. My most played of all time. Lyman masterpiece.
Actually beat LMS twice, played it a couple more.
If only the LCD was ready then! Can you imagine the video clips 
Quoted from JakeFAttie:If they had read it, they would realize I'm trying to talk about the crypto crash and stock market adjustments that have happened in the last two months and how they might be affecting the pin market.
Won’t affect it one bit. Just like it never has. This is a niche hobby that will see prices increase always. Prices have never gone down on average. Only up. Well at least since the 90s.
Quoted from Mars304:The conversation may be old and boring to you, but there are many of us who are new and are still seeking out answers and learning.
It’s nothing complex. This hobby is, and always will be, simple supply and demand. Prices will follow that basic principle.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Won’t affect it one bit. Just like it never has. This is a niche hobby that will see prices increase always. Prices have never gone down on average. Only up. Well at least since the 90s.
It’s nothing complex. This hobby is, and always will be, simple supply and demand. Prices will follow that basic principle.
Irony: I can point out the contradiction in your statement, but have been told incessantly not to talk about it unless I'm being dismissive about talking about it. So, no thanks.
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Winooski, VT
Search function is great. I still use it all the time .
