(Topic ID: 153322)

Second machine, is my logic sound?

By Beyndtstng

8 years ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by nosro
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#1 8 years ago

I have been playing pinball for a while so I enjoy the hobby. I recently purchased GoT and I absolutely love the depth of the game. Unfortunately, I don't think this game lends itself well for me trying to get someone interested in playing. There is a complex set of rules that makes it fun for most of us but too involved for most people that just want to hit a few ramps and get a multiball.

I have always wanted to own Spider-Man which was the first machine I played that really made me consider buying one. GoT was my first pin purchase and I am an amateur when it comes to evaluating used machines. With that said I would like to stick to new machines. That is my background for the following question:

Would Spider-Man VE be a good purchase for accomplishing my goal of getting my friends more involved in pinball? I know it is somewhat overpriced but I don't foresee a near mint black Spider-Man coming for sale at that price point. I know this machine is a hot button topic so I'm looking for some qualified opinions. I wouldn't want to lose too much money when I sold it so I'm a bit worry about that. Thank you

#2 8 years ago
Quoted from Beyndtstng:

Would Spider-Man VE be a good purchase for accomplishing my goal of getting my friends more involved in pinball?

Getting new people into pinball is super hard to do.

I'll have work parties and even though I have 45 restored pins, most people play a game or two and then walk away to play Galaga or Stargate.

Everyone ends up in the kitchen far from the noise of the games.

I always take a simple 70s game, close out the outlanes, set it to 5 ball and set the replay super low (so kids can hear the knocker).

This is your best bet to get a non-pinhead interested, but don't count on it.

#3 8 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Everyone ends up in the kitchen far from the noise of the games.

I'm glad it's not just me... I always get the same reaction "Woa! You restored all of these!? Very cool! I loved pinball when I was younger." *plays a game or two, walks upstairs, drinks a beer*

Sigh...

Quoted from vid1900:

[...] This is your best bet to get a non-pinhead interested, but don't count on it.

OP, I've had the best luck in getting a game that is simple, yet relatable, and still complex enough to keep you interested. Once I added a few System 11 games to my collection, I noticed people really enjoying my games more, and of all the games that I own, Lights Camera Action is definitely the most loved, by miles. They're that sweet spot of easiness to understand and modern complexity, plus the artwork and themes are lighthearted, easy to digest, and fun.

#4 8 years ago

Spidey vault is a solid choice, I ordered one.

#5 8 years ago

Buying games for people who don't like pinball is completely pointless. People always think if they cater to their friends/wives/guests they'll catch the bug. That's not how it works.

Buy good games you like, if people want to "get into them" they will.

#6 8 years ago

All you can do is expose folks to your games. Some become mildly interested, some don't.

For the uninitiated, I usually have to explain where the start button is, how to plunge, and to "shoot for the blinking lights".

It probably takes 5-10 games before they start getting the hang of it, but not all have the patience to play for that long.

#7 8 years ago

I had a similar concern as you. 1st pin was a restored JD. People would play a couple games and head to the pool table or MAME machine. Then, I got a Met Premium. That changed things! People always go to the Met and try to make "Sparky's head bounce".

In saying that, I asked a similar question to Pinside. General consensus was to get a machine that I would appreciate most since I would be playing it. I'm a big Metallica fan and couldn't think of a better machine for myself. Happens (by luck or not) that everyone I hang out with loves it too.

IMHO, get what you like and others will enjoy it too. If they don't, oh well... you still have something you wanted

#8 8 years ago
Quoted from sadler28:

I had a similar concern as you. 1st pin was a restored JD. People would play a couple games and head to the pool table or MAME machine. Then, I got a Met Premium. That changed things! People always go to the Met and try to make "Sparky's head bounce".
In saying that, I asked a similar question to Pinside. General consensus was to get a machine that I would appreciate most since I would be playing it. I'm a big Metallica fan and couldn't think of a better machine for myself. Happens (by luck or not) that everyone I hang out with loves it too.
IMHO, get what you like and others will enjoy it too. If they don't, oh well... you still have something you wanted

Definitely good advice. I really enjoy Spider-Man and I think it is an easier game to teach. I usually play it at the local arcade but the game is rough and definitely needs work. I guess my main concern is the price. I'm afraid I'll drop 65 on it and it will be worth 40 a couple of years later. Does anyone feel like it will retain its value for the most part? I'm not in this to make money but I can't afford to take a bath on it.

#9 8 years ago

Get an EM. That's what people think of when they hear "pinball".

Simple gameplay, chimes, not intimidating at all.

They're the gateway to the more complex modern games.

#10 8 years ago

Agreed that newbies won't know what to do on GOT.

A bash toy right up the middle is always helpful. For older games MM or AFM. For newer games, MET BDK IJ4.

If history is any guide, no modern Sterns are going to crater in price, and many are selling now for more than they were NIB. In fact, even going back to 90s games, the duds have been weeded out, and everything else hasn't lost much in value.

*Disclaimer: this advice is given independent of general market conditions. Who knows, pins might be $1000 each in a few years. But even then, your $6500 Spider-man can be traded for a MET Premium, or a cherry TAF.

#11 8 years ago

I feel like any new game (maybe besides Big Juicy Melons, but there's an obvious reason behind that) is "too complex", at least for newbies to get in to. This is also why I love EMs and SS machines. Just like I'd rather play a tough skill video game Imeaning older, simpler, but still hard games) rather than a adventure based game (that still requires skill; meaning DMD and further games), I love them because they're easy to pick up and hard to master. If you ever get tired of a game, try beating your high score 10 times. I'm still working on getting my whole collection working great that I haven't had time to track my scores on an 100% working game but I feel like this could keep me playing ANYTHING, more people in the mix for competition is fun too.

EMs can be intimidating to work on however, so I would suggest going with an early solid-state game, Williams was king in that time period IMO, but early Bally SS games are also wonderful. I don't own one and haven't played one TOO much but since you seem to have quite the disposable budget (not a ridiculous priced title, but still), I'd recommend Black Knight (the original) from 1980. Flash or Gorgar might be a good fit too as they don't have the second playfield which wouldn't be too familar from long-returning players. BK has cool art, a speaking voice, and just a cool theme. Buy a working one, and you won't have any major problems down the road and if you have some, they can be fixed pretty easily since it would have been working fine shortly before, and I'm speaking of the Williams system 3-6 (they're similar) boardsets specifically. Don't be scared about trying to judge condition and price and certainly don't be afraid to ask us all for opinions on a certain game for sale, either.

#12 8 years ago

Man, I guess I'm just fortunate to have friends that can't get enough pinball at my house. I thought everybody were like that. I have pool table and made my own arcade mame cabinet but the moment they played my IJ, they all say" Hands down, this gotta be the best purchase you've made since I met you 15 years ago." I regularly have people playing my machines non stop and I have to kicked them out so I can go to sleep.

Like people said above, always get the machine that you want to play and don't really worry about the price fluctuating, cuz the good ones will always keep their value.(you might lose few hundred bucks when you sell it but I think that's a cheap price to pay for years of enjoyment you got from the machine)

#13 8 years ago

Hay whatever you have to tell yourself.

#14 8 years ago

I wish I could give you some feedback on your SMVE question. I've never seen it or played it. Hopefully some on here can help you out with it.

I agree with the earlier post on new sterns. You may lose a couple hundred bucks taking it out of the box and playing. As long as the market doesn't tank which we all know could happen at any time new sterns will maintain good value

#15 8 years ago

I don't think Spiderman is a good game for getting people into pinball. The rules are not straightforward for the casual or new player.

I agree with what others have said, simpler games draw in novice and new players because they are not as intimidating and are easy to understand. But you are the one that is going to be playing your games 95% of the time, so buy what you like.

#16 8 years ago

My advice is to get a good condition Pirates of the Caribbean. Everyone digs the theme - game is pretty to look at and sinking the ship just delights. When people come over, hands down, POTC is THE game they want to play. Plus one in good condition can be found for less than half of SM VE. Although SM is a great game. Still people just love POTC... Good luck - figuring out what comes in next is a big part of the fun of this hobby.

#17 8 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Buying games for people who don't like pinball is completely pointless. People always think if they cater to their friends/wives/guests they'll catch the bug. That's not how it works. Buy good games you like, if people want to "get into them" they will.

I agree whole heartedly. Unless you have space and money for games you don't care to play, buy what you like. People are either going to love to play pinball or they won't. Besides, 99% of the time, you are the only one going to play your games. Does it make sense to buy a game for that other 1%?
My only rule is to NOT buy a theme my wife hates. So Playboy and Sexy Girl are out.
ACDC is probably the game my non-pinheads gravitate too because the theme is something they can relate to. But they rarely play more than a few games and go play darts. My older friends tend to gravitate to the SS pins because that is what they played when they were younger. I don't own an EM.

#18 8 years ago

I think if you want to get people interested in pinball you should start by teaching them how to control the ball. Everyone "gets it" that you flip when the ball is near the flippers but taking that next step of stopping the ball and aiming your shots makes the game way more interesting. Once they understand it's a game of skill they can take that next step of shooting for the blinking lit shots.

Theme is also key for many people. LotR is a great theme, SMVE is too. Humor in the theme helps in many cases. WoZ is something most of us are familiar with and the game is beautiful but it's not a theme I like. PotC is good, I like the sinking ship too.

#19 8 years ago

Same experience here. Very few people that come into my house show any interest in my pins. Any interest is over at one game or even half a game. My boys will play once in a while but few and far between. One of the things I really liked about getting into pinball was that it's something others can enjoy. Never crossed my mind that most people would have zero interest in pinball. These things are huge, covered in fun artwork, lit up like a Christmas tree, and full of toys - what's not to love? Oh well, less wear and tear I guess. I also recommend buying pins that you enjoy. Try to add variety to your collection with newer complex games and older simpler games.

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I think if you want to get people interested in pinball you should start by teaching them how to control the ball. Everyone "gets it" that you flip when the ball is near the flippers but taking that next step of stopping the ball and aiming your shots makes the game way more interesting. Once they understand it's a game of skill they can take that next step of shooting for the blinking lit shots.
Theme is also key for many people. LotR is a great theme, SMVE is too. Humor in the theme helps in many cases. WoZ is something most of us are familiar with and the game is beautiful but it's not a theme I like. PotC is good, I like the sinking ship too.

You mean I shouldn't be double flipping?

I agree with your thought about the theme. My sister-in-law (classic party girl) wanted to play my GoT just because she loves the show. About six weeks ago, I was able to get a couple of my friends into pinball due to the local arcade. One girl wanted to learn the rules and appreciated the strategy along with learning how to control the ball. The other didn't want to be distracted by rules but both enjoy playing on the weekend with me.

I just finished playing IJ at our barcade and I think the inclusion of the video modes makes the game more interesting for people in the beginning. I would love to pick one up but the local retailer here wants 13k for the fully restored one. I know that price is ludicrous but a restored one would make me feel better than one that needed work. What is a reasonable price for a nice IJ?

#21 8 years ago

The titles that have drawn more new players (mostly kids) in my house is High Speed and Wizard of Oz. Every other title I have had (any number of DMDs) have met with little if any interest.

Note that neither were screaming successes, but they were notably more succesful.

I've never been able to explain it. Perhaps High Speed was simple to explain and had a relatable theme and Wizard of Oz had an attractive video screen and a non threatening theme.

Spiderman was surprisingly lukewarm, even among kids that I knew were Spiderman fans.

I don't have nearly as many adults come through my house.

#22 8 years ago

Paid $6,250 for mine, maybe have overpaid a little as it was my first pin. I really nice restoration was going for $7,250. The guy selling it was super honest and said the machine I bought at $6,250 was a better value than the higher end restore for $7,250.

I would think in right situation you could do better than I did (price or condition)....

I don't see how $13,000 is even in the realm of reasonable for an IJ.

I would also strongly consider a new in box late date WOZ for $8-9k, I have one and love it, and it draws a lot of people to it.

#23 8 years ago

I have had the same issues at my house. I generally keep one older game around because some of the newer games are a bit intimidating. So much to do and so many rules. My pool table gets m ore use than the games most parties.

#24 8 years ago

Kudos to everyone in this thread who tries to bring new people into the hobby. It's obviously an uphill battle and we all do this as an expression of our devotion to this hobby.

I think we should always remember that what we love (as die-hard hobbyists) is obviously not the same as what might attract new comers. There doesn't seem to be a sure-fire recipe, but things that can work in your favor:
1) Something that the player can relate to. I think Stern has it right here: an attractive licensed theme can go a long way towards drawing in someone. If Stern were to make a Star Wars 7 pinball machine, it would probably be the best opportunity in decades to draw in new players.
2) Something simple that you can describe to the player. For me, I was able to describe High Speed as "hit the green targets, then hit the yellow targets, then hit the red targets, then run the red light".

Deep rule sets, great dots, great sounds, great light show, great flow are things an enthusiast can appreciate, but probably does nothing for drawing in new people.

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