(Topic ID: 252916)

Seawitch Playfield Fuse and Rectifier Voltages STERN BOARD


By McPin54

11 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 59 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 11 days ago

    Trying to bring this one back from the dead!

    Picked up a seawitch project with a restored original Playfield.
    With that said some of these problems can be anywhere because I am not the one that populated it. (not that I would have created a prob myself)

    Pictures of Voltages on paper of all boards and test points to make easier.

    I started at Transformer and rectifier board. Transformer is voltages are good. The rectifier was showing incorrect voltages so I replaced it, and this is what Im getting.: alsoSEE PIC

    The test point that is throwing me off is TP3. I have 14.2 with new board. It is not in line with Pinwiki (11.9 +/- 1.4, but close. I have a stars that plays 100% and it measures 14.34 which is also not in line with pinwiki but plays 100%

    Pictures of my other test points are shown in pic of MPU, Driver and lamp.
    Test point TP2 is 13.83 and wiki has it at 11.9 +/- 1.4

    The board that I am completely lost on is the Lamp board which is -5.38 and should be positive 5.

    The main issue is when I turn the game on the 1amp SLow blow is blowing. it doesn't blow fast, it actually takes 30 + seconds. Im guessing there is something grounding out under the PF. Also previous owner took out period correct flipper mechs and put in 90's bally Williams. I will probably convert back to original when I figure all this out.

    also are pics of connectors going to rectifier. previous owner repined. I want to make sure wires are correct. I'm going to do all new connectors anyway.

    THank you in advance for any HELP!
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    #2 11 days ago

    Disconnect PF from the SDB and use a meter to figure out which solenoid driver is locked on.

    Once you determine if one is or isnt't, reconnect the PF connectors and look for something shorted. There's a sneak short somewhere especially since it takes a while.

    Get the regular stern mechs back in there when you're done.

    Don't worry about the TP3 that's fine. It's unloaded until the SDB is plugged in, although the 323 regulator will have to burn off more heat.... but it's fine.

    #3 11 days ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Disconnect PF from the SDB and use a meter to figure out which solenoid driver is locked on.
    Once you determine if one is or isnt't, reconnect the PF connectors and look for something shorted. There's a sneak short somewhere especially since it takes a while.
    Get the regular stern mechs back in there when you're done.
    Don't worry about the TP3 that's fine. It's unloaded until the SDB is plugged in, although the 323 regulator will have to burn off more heat.... but it's fine.

    thank you for the info!

    the knocker was locking on. disconnected it and the coin lock. still blowing fuse.

    #4 11 days ago

    under PF solenoid fuse only protects the non-flipper playfield solenoids, nothing for the knocker or coin lockout. Keep testing with the PF out until you find the short.

    If you have known working 100% solenoid board you can swap it in to see if it still blows. I think you have a sneak short on the PF though.

    #5 11 days ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    under PF solenoid fuse only protects the non-flipper playfield solenoids, nothing for the knocker or coin lockout. Keep testing with the PF out until you find the short.
    If you have known working 100% solenoid board you can swap it in to see if it still blows. I think you have a sneak short on the PF
    though.

    swapped driver same issue.

    so the previous owner only replaced the bottom 2 flippers. the upper are still period correct but it looks like he left out the resistors.........thoughts.

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    #6 11 days ago

    Nevermind, I see that they are not needed.

    #7 11 days ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    under PF solenoid fuse only protects the non-flipper playfield solenoids, nothing for the knocker or coin lockout. Keep testing with the PF out until you find the short.
    If you have known working 100% solenoid board you can swap it in to see if it still blows. I think you have a sneak short on the PF though.

    Short is definitely on the PF. I disconnected J1, J2 and J3. As I check continuity on all pins in connector to J1 all pins beep. UGH J2, pins 4, 9, 11, and 12 beep. UGH!!! J5 pins 4, 5, 7, and 12 beep!! Obviously Im grounding in more than one place. I guess I need to start desoldering coils???? one at a time. I can't see anything obvious right now. I can not believe how many coil wires are getting to ground. Am I missing something here, or is just the way the previous owner repopulated PF?

    Thank you for the help.

    #8 11 days ago
    Quoted from McPin54:

    The test point that is throwing me off is TP3. I have 14.2 with new board. It is not in line with Pinwiki (11.9 +/- 1.4, but close. I have a stars that plays 100% and it measures 14.34 which is also not in line with pinwiki but plays 100%

    You'll only read 11.9V +/- 1.4 at TP5 on the rectifier board when the solenoid driver board is disconnected. When you connect the solenoid driver board the large capacitor at C23 stores energy, filters a lot of the DC ripple and brings the voltage up to between 14.5 - 16.5 volts range. The reading you're getting is normal.

    Quoted from McPin54:

    As I check continuity on all pins in connector to J1 all pins beep.

    Rectifier board connector J1 pin 6 (Blue-White wire) is the solenoid 43V wire.

    Don't use the meter "beep" as your guide for shorts, you need to look at the actual resistance reading on the meter specifically for zero ohms where there shouldn't be. The coils are low resistance and will all set the beeper off on your meter.
    Drop target reset coils should measure around 30 ohms.
    Slingshot coils around 20 ohms.
    Pop Bumper coils around 12 ohms
    Outhole coil around 10 ohms.

    On a side note, it looks like the flipper crank on the upper flipper mech is missing the pin that opens the EOS switch which could cause the F4 fuse on the rectifier board to blow when you hold the flipper.

    SeawitchFlipper1.jpg

    #9 10 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Don't use the meter "beep" as your guide for shorts, you need to look at the actual resistance reading on the meter specifically for zero ohms where there shouldn't be. The coils are low resistance and will all set the beeper off on your meter.
    Drop target reset coils should measure around 30 ohms.
    Slingshot coils around 20 ohms.
    Pop Bumper coils around 12 ohms
    Outhole coil around 10 ohms.

    First off THANK YOU FOR THE HELP! MUCH APPRECIATED! I really want to be able to play this soon.

    I should not be beeping (have continuity) on a coil wire to ground braid though, correct?

    Here are my measurements:
    Slings- 14.4 and 14
    Drops- 33.3 33.6 33.3
    Pops- 10.9 11 10.5
    Ball kick to shooter 10
    Knocker 11.3

    all these can be measured while hooked up correct?
    Could the bally/Williams flippers be the problem?

    Thanks

    #10 10 days ago
    Quoted from McPin54:

    the 1amp SLow blow is blowing

    1. Just confirming, it's the fuse under the playfield near the flipper mechs that's blowing?
    2. Are any coils locking on the moment you power up the machine?
    3. Does the fuse blow when you just leave the game in attract mode or only after you start a game?
    4. If it blows in game mode does activating the flippers cause it?
    5. The playfield fuse in the picture below doesn't look like a 1A slow blow. Is it?
    6. Can you comment on the picture below about the apparent black wire?

    The coil resistances you measured look ok to me.

    When you pull the J1 playfield wire connector off the rectifier board, at that J1 wire connector do you measure any resistance between the pin 6 blue-white wire and any other wire on that connector? You should not.

    Quoted from McPin54:

    Could the bally/Williams flippers be the problem?

    Those Williams flipper coils are not suitable for this game. Their hold winding coil resistance is too low.

    Quoted from McPin54:

    I should not be beeping (have continuity) on a coil wire to ground braid though, correct?

    Not normally but it depends on your meter. Using the beeper is only indicative, it doesn't tell the whole story. I never use beep mode.

    Seawitch_Sling_Wire1.jpg

    #11 10 days ago

    yes the fuse between the williams bally flippers is a 1amp slow blow. it takes at least 30 sec before it blows. I see it heat up and turn off before it does.

    if I leave all connectors plugged in to the SDB except J3, the knocker locks on.

    if I plug everything in, no coils lock and fuse blows

    #12 10 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    When you pull the J1 playfield wire connector off the rectifier board, at that J1 wire connector do you measure any resistance between the pin 6 blue-white wire and any other wire on that connector? You should not.

    I do not get any resistance

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    #14 10 days ago

    When you disconnect J1, J2 and J5 from the solenoid driver board the fuse doesn't blow any more, right? If yes, isolate which of those three connectors the short is coming from to narrow down the problem.
    Carefully inspect the coil connections incase a lug is accidentally touching something it shouldn't.

    #15 10 days ago

    gota be a short somewhere.

    can't find it. should I just start disconnecting coils?

    J1, 2 and 5 connectors all blow the 1 amp playfield fuse. I can't even narrow it down to a connector or set of wires. this is odd to me.

    any ideas? Next step?

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    #16 10 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    When you disconnect J1, J2 and J5 from the solenoid driver board the fuse doesn't blow any more, right? If yes, isolate which of those three connectors the short is coming from to narrow down the problem.
    Carefully inspect the coil connections incase a lug is accidentally touching something it shouldn't.

    I see nothing touching

    yes, but if I plug anyone of them in it will blow.

    #17 10 days ago

    The EOS switch on the upper flippers might be wired wrong. Need pictures of the coil windings connecting to the lugs. However this is not your problem.

    Can you post a picture of the outhole kicker coil under the apron clearly showing the connections?

    BTW, do all the drop target reset coils have diodes on them?

    #18 10 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The EOS switch on the upper flippers might be wired wrong. Need pictures of the coil windings connecting to the lugs. However this is not your problem.
    Can you post a picture of the outhole kicker coil under the apron clearly showing the connections?
    BTW, do all the drop target reset coils have diodes on them?

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    #19 10 days ago

    yes there are diods on drop reset coils

    #20 10 days ago
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    #21 10 days ago

    Somebodys bypassed the line filter and MOV. You'll need to deal with that later.

    The yellow wires on all the playfield coils is the fused side.
    Systematically disconnect the yellow wires from a coil and separate the yellow wires apart to break the chain. So for example disconnect the two yellow wires on the right slingshot and separate the yellow wires - make sure they're not touching anything else. Does the fuse still blow?

    #22 10 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Somebodys bypassed the line filter and MOV. You'll need to deal with that later.
    The yellow wires on all the playfield coils is the fused side.
    Systematically disconnect the yellow wires from a coil and separate the yellow wires apart to break the chain. So for example disconnect the two yellow wires on the right slingshot and separate the yellow wires - make sure they're not touching anything else. Does the fuse still blow?

    I disconnected the slingshot wires. Fuse did not blow. I get 7 bongs from cpu then the dim led. but drops don't reset and no game play

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    #23 10 days ago
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    #24 10 days ago
    Quoted from McPin54:

    I disconnected the slingshot wires. Fuse did not blow. I get 7 bongs from cpu then the dim led. but drops don't reset and no game play

    Ok, good start. One of those disconnected yellow wires runs down the playfield to the drop targets and pop bumpers which is why they aren't working.

    Can you post some clear pictures of the area around that super bright lamp (with the machine off) showing the wiring in the area?

    #25 10 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Ok, good start. One of those disconnected yellow wires runs down the playfield to the drop targets and pop bumpers which is why they aren't working.
    Can you post some clear pictures of the area around that super bright lamp (with the machine off) showing the wiring in the area?

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    #26 10 days ago
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    #27 10 days ago
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    #28 10 days ago

    The lamp wiring doesn't look out of the ordinary. It might just be a slightly shorted filament in the lamp. It will probably blow within the next 10 hours of use.

    Reconnect both yellow wires on the slingshot coil. Move down the chain on that yellow wire, say to either the lower pop bumper or the right drop target reset coil. Do the same disconnecting both yellow wires from the coil and from each other and tape them.

    #29 9 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The lamp wiring doesn't look out of the ordinary. It might just be a slightly shorted filament in the lamp. It will probably blow within the next 10 hours of use.
    Reconnect both yellow wires on the slingshot coil. Move down the chain on that yellow wire, say to either the lower pop bumper or the right drop target reset coil. Do the same disconnecting both yellow wires from the coil and from each other and tape them.

    OK, followed yellow wire all the way to 3 drop target bank. unhooked yellow wires and fuse starts to blow.

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    #30 9 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The lamp wiring doesn't look out of the ordinary. It might just be a slightly shorted filament in the lamp. It will probably blow within the next 10 hours of use.
    Reconnect both yellow wires on the slingshot coil. Move down the chain on that yellow wire, say to either the lower pop bumper or the right drop target reset coil. Do the same disconnecting both yellow wires from the coil and from each other and tape them.

    when the slingshot yellow wires are touching the fuse begins to blow.

    thoughts?

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    #31 9 days ago
    Quoted from McPin54:

    OK, followed yellow wire all the way to 3 drop target bank. unhooked yellow wires and fuse starts to blow.

    Does this mean the yellow wire from that right slingshot runs directly to that left 3 drop target bank first and then onto other coils? i.e. there are no other coils on chain of that yellow wire between the right slingshot coil and left 3 drop target bank coil?

    #32 9 days ago

    correct, I followed it from the sling to the 3 bank drop. I soldered the two yellow wires back to the slings, then unhooked 3 bank. started to blow.

    #33 9 days ago

    Sorry, just started reading and might have missed something important...

    You don't have a short here, do you? Between the SW and wire?

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    #34 9 days ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Sorry, just started reading and might have missed something important...
    You don't have a short here, do you? Between the SW and wire?[quoted image]

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    #35 9 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Does this mean the yellow wire from that right slingshot runs directly to that left 3 drop target bank first and then onto other coils? i.e. there are no other coils on chain of that yellow wire between the right slingshot coil and left 3 drop target bank coil?

    right sling coil runs to left sling coil then three bank drop
    appologize right runs to out hole kicker
    left sling runs to 3 bank drop

    #36 9 days ago

    each wire runs to a sling coil from fuse. one yellow to left sling one to the right sling

    right sling runs to coil to kick ball to shooter

    then left sling to 3 bank drop

    I unhooked both out hole kicker and 3 bank drop. fuse starts to blow. ugh
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    #37 9 days ago

    I reconnected all yellow wires to coils and desoldered blue wires off of fuse. turn game on and nothing blows.

    would my problem be related to that set of wires?

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    #38 9 days ago

    started working on blue set of wires off the left side of fuse. they go from flipper to flipper. followed them all the way to rectifier but was this a waste of time? im getting 7 volts off rectifier pin to first flipper

    nothing blew as I was going down the line (blue wires) but I'm not sure if that really means anything.

    when I start a game it scores crazy and no coil action. when I hit right flipper I hear a buzz and that's it

    #39 9 days ago

    The blue wires are not the problem. They are before the fuse. The yellow wires are after the fuse so the problem is somewhere down the yellow wire chain.

    When you disconnected the yellow wires from the right slingshot, the fuse issue stopped.
    You said one of the yellow wires from the right slingshot then goes to the outhole kicker coil.
    After reconnecting both wires to the right slingshot and then disconnecting the outhole kicker wires the problem re-occured.
    So the issue is between the two.

    Reconnect the yellow wire running from the fuse to the right slingshot, leave the other yellow wire at that slingshot (that runs to the outhole kicker) disconnected.
    what happens?

    #40 9 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The blue wires are not the problem. They are before the fuse. The yellow wires are after the fuse so the problem is somewhere down the yellow wire chain.
    When you disconnected the yellow wires from the right slingshot, the fuse issue stopped.
    You said one of the yellow wires from the right slingshot then goes to the outhole kicker coil.
    After reconnecting both wires to the right slingshot and then disconnecting the outhole kicker wires the problem re-occured.
    So the issue is between the two.
    Reconnect the yellow wire running from the fuse to the right slingshot, leave the other yellow wire at that slingshot (that runs to the outhole kicker) disconnected.
    what happens?

    first, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP.

    I have to have both slings unhooked and the two yellow wires can not be touching for the fuse not to blow.

    I hooked them back up and unhooked out hole kick and 3 bank drop. still blows.

    I'm going to try to bypass slings and see what happens

    #41 9 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Reconnect the yellow wire running from the fuse to the right slingshot, leave the other yellow wire at that slingshot (that runs to the outhole kicker) disconnected.
    what happens?

    fuse wants to blow.

    left sling disconnected while I did this

    15705953625582146124532 (resized).jpg
    #42 9 days ago

    when I bypass sling and go straight from fuse to out hole kicker it wants to blow

    #43 9 days ago

    What's changed between now and yesterday when you disconnected the right slingshot only and it worked? Have you connected/disconnected anything from any boards during that time?

    #44 9 days ago

    game booted yesterday but no coil action. game seemed to always boot. just blows fuse

    fuse didn't blow when I disconnected slings and kept yellow wires from touching. yellow wires touch....fuse wants to blow.

    I was curious to by pass sling to out hole kicker, it still wants to blow even when bypassing the sling.

    #45 9 days ago

    gota get some sleep.

    thanks again. will try again tomorrow when I get home from work.

    #46 9 days ago

    The 43 volt solenoid power to the playfield comes from the blue-white wire of connector J1 pin 6 at the rectifier board.
    That blue-white wire goes to the playfield to all the flippers and also one side of the playfield fuse. The other side of that playfield fuse has two yellow wires that feed 43 volt power to all the other playfield coils. The only way that fuse can blow is a short of some sort on the yellow wire side of that fuse. Any short on the blue-white wire will not cause that playfield fuse to blow because that fuse is downstream, rather a short on the blue-white wire will cause the F4 fuse on the rectifier board to blow which is upstream.

    The yellow wires carrying 43 volts is connected to all the playfield coils. When a driver transistor on the solenoid driver board is told to activate, it switches the other colored wire on the respective coil to ground which places 43 volts across the coil lugs so it energizes. When the driver transistor then de-activates it disconnects ground from the colored wire at the coil removing any voltage across the two coil lugs and the coil disengages.

    I'm a little confused with what's going on right now.
    You've tried two solenoid driver boards and get the same result with both - playfield fuse wants to blow.
    Now I think you mentioned the two yellow coil wires from the playfield fuse runs directly to each slingshot coil. The other yellow wires on those slingshot coils then feeds other coils on the playfield. With both yellow wires disconnected from each slingshot and the second slingshot yellow wire disconnected aswell, the fuse didn't blow.
    Right now if you connect the one yellow fused wire to the intended slingshot (left or right), the fuse wants to blow. Or if you connect the outhole kicker only to the fuse, the fuse wants to blow.
    Am I getting the right picture?

    There's got to be something obvious we haven't noticed yet..

    #47 8 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The 43 volt solenoid power to the playfield comes from the blue-white wire of connector J1 pin 6

    Think we are on to something (you more than me). I measured each side of the PF fuse and got some really funky readings. Then I read your post this morning. I think previous owner pinned connector wrong.

    The connector for PF Coil is setting at pin 5 not 6, not getting 43 volts. I measured pin 6 on rectifier, which it should be on (that pins gets 46 volts). I need to make sure the rest of these pins are correct on the rectifier board.

    I think we are very close, correct me if I'm wrong. I just need to make sure the other wires are in the right spot in the connector.

    THanks again!!!

    #48 8 days ago
    Quoted from McPin54:

    Think we are on to something (you more than me). I measured each side of the PF fuse and got some really funky readings. Then I read your post this morning. I think previous owner pinned connector wrong.
    The connector for PF Coil is setting at pin 5 not 6, not getting 43 volts. I measured pin 6 on rectifier, which it should be on (that pins gets 46 volts). I need to make sure the rest of these pins are correct on the rectifier board.
    I think we are very close, correct me if I'm wrong. I just need to make sure the other wires are in the right spot in the connector.
    THanks again!!!

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    #49 8 days ago

    Ouch! Those wires are in the wrong position!

    See the diagram below from the rectifier board schematic showing the wire color positions.
    I've marked where the wires should be on the second picture.

    By the way, your J1 playfield connector is 8 position, while your rectifier board J1 pin header is 9 pin. Your playfield connector is keyed so less chance you can plug it in wrong, but essentially the 9th pin (right most) on the rectifier board is not used on your game - i.e. plug that J1 connector on the first 8 pins from the left.

    Seawitch_Playfield_J1_Power_Connector.jpg

    Seawitch_J1_RectifierBrd.jpg

    #50 8 days ago

    Got it! THanks

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