(Topic ID: 298861)

Seawitch from scratch, Allentown edition (Bally/Stern multi-game platform)

By gdonovan

2 years ago


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There are 1,882 posts in this topic. You are on page 24 of 38.
#1151 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

So as of this morning the only things I have left to do for Centaur is lane shift on left flipper button

It's too late now, but actually you could have wired those lane change switches as secondary switches on the flipper mechs to save on the convoluted wiring. In fact I think it might have been the original idea when you consider those switches are wired on strobe #2 which is not a standard wire to the cabinet. It otherwise makes no sense why they wouldn't have originally wired to strobe #0 or strobe #1 if they were intended to be on the cabinet harness.

Quoted from gdonovan:

Quench, have you ever had the chance to look at the Centaur code and what is going on in this area? What are the steps the MPU takes when loading and launching a ball? You would think that the MPU not seeing a ball launch (switch mid subway) it would try and load a ball again but it never does.

I only looked at the 5th trough switch in the code when you asked about it, but vec-tor gave such a beautiful answer I had nothing to add.
I do know when it doesn't see the mid subway switch activate, it will try to relaunch the ball because it thinks the launch failed. I haven't checked if it tries to reload though.

#1152 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

It's too late now, but actually you could have wired those lane change switches as secondary switches on the flipper mechs to save on the convoluted wiring.

I considered it but would have deviated from the factory harness. If I was making a harness from scratch might have gone that route. I'm aware of the flipper EOS mounted lane shift switches from working on non-Bally games.

Quoted from Quench:

In fact I think it might have been the original idea when you consider those switches are wired on strobe #2 which is not a standard wire to the cabinet. It otherwise makes no sense why they wouldn't have originally wired to strobe #0 or strobe #1 if they were intended to be on the cabinet harness.

Agreed. Maybe there was incident in testing which caused them to rethink the location or Williams had filed a patent they wished to avoid.

Quoted from Quench:

I do know when it doesn't see the mid subway switch activate, it will try to relaunch the ball because it thinks the launch failed. I haven't checked if it tries to reload though.

I can assure you it does not attempt reload, at least not in my case.

Getting the orbs all lit is easy enough but getting all those drops on the right in order to light the release is hard enough and hitting the release switch which is a stone cold bitch in itself.. and then to have the launcher fail on the second ball is a kick in the pants.

Edit: Its fairly consistent when launching a single ball from the subway, the problem stems when all four are a go. sometimes the second ball fails, other times the third. If you keep the balls from draining and re-enable the launch buttons it will launch the missed ball just fine.

I'll try an replace the switch, I have modified the Bally one so it doesn't hang up on the sides of the trough and will try tweaking the mech further. The balls in the trough still move around a lot when the loader is going and I'm wondering if its causing a false switch trip.

One of the reasons I was wondering what the code does, this would give me a clue as to "how things work, what is the MPU looking for" and see if hardware or software problem.

#1153 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I considered it but would have deviated from the factory harness.

You've already deviated in so many ways Bally at least did it the year before on Space Invaders.

Quoted from gdonovan:

I can assure you it does not, at least not in my case.

I can see it happen in emulation. If the mid subway switch doesn't activate on ball launch, the game will fire the launch coil again up to 5 times if the mid subway switch repeatedly doesn't respond. It doesn't fire the reload coil during this situation. My Centaur has this problem because the mid subway switch is bad.
Now, when the first trough switch doesn't re-activate before a short period after the mid subway switch activates, then reload/launches are terminated. Is this what you're seeing?

Without being near my Centaur, I can't visualise potential mechanical problems with the release mech. Based on the above it suggests the balls are not effectively activating the first trough switch.

#1154 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

If the mid subway switch doesn't activate on ball launch, the game will fire the launch coil again up to 5 times if the mid subway switch repeatedly doesn't respond. It doesn't fire the reload coil during this situation.

This is what I'm seeing. On a correct load and launch you know the mid subway switch is tripped because there is a change in sound.

Quoted from Quench:

Based on the above it suggests the balls are not effectively activating the first trough switch.

They are clearly sitting on the switch, I can view it through the coin door opening.

Let me replace the switch and then we will reconvene on the subject. The switch does seem fine as without fail it will launch 1 ball out the subway (if the switch is not functioning it will not even try launching a ball, I have determined that already) and indeed when I manually test with the glass off the success rate is 80-90% for 4 ball launch.

It fails just enough during gameplay to really irk.

Like I said, the balls rattle around a lot during loading, I'm wondering if the switch is being activated and the MPU marks it as a "successful load" when this occurs.

#1155 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Let me replace the switch and then we will reconvene on the subject.

BTW, put a capacitor on that mid subway "end of trough" switch. The schematics doesn't list one but it really should have a cap considering the speed that the ball flies across that switch.

#1156 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

BTW, put a capacitor on that mid subway "end of trough" switch. The schematics doesn't list one but it really should have a cap considering the speed that the ball flies across that switch.

I'll do so when the new flat blade microswitch comes in. It does seem to be working fine but can't hurt.

#1157 2 years ago

Working on cleaning up the shop, nice to play Fireball again.

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#1158 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

BTW, put a capacitor on that mid subway "end of trough" switch. The schematics doesn't list one but it really should have a cap considering the speed that the ball flies across that switch.

While shop cleaning, I installed a cap on the subway switch and very, very carefully adjusted the #1 ball switch. It seems to have settled the problem, at least it did not crop up tonight. A new Data East switch is on the way regardless and I'll swap it out when it arrives from PBR.

#1159 2 years ago

Evil lives again.

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#1160 2 years ago

Cleaned the playfield, swapped plastics, installed Titan elastics, wired the left flipper button for lane change and added a cap to one of the roll overs.

If I had one complaint; when you hit the right release the magnet grabs the ball and inevitably the first ball out of the underground rail system collides with it and ends up rolling back down the main shooter lane.

Be nice if the software released the ball a hair sooner so it's a miss.
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#1161 2 years ago
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#1162 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

[quoted image][quoted image]

I am almost ready to start gathering parts for my 2022 fall build. Between Quicksilver and Star Gazer. I have not played either. I think Quicksilver is a better game from what I can see. I’ll make a poll in my thread.

#1163 2 years ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

I am almost ready to start gathering parts for my 2022 fall build. Between Quicksilver and Star Gazer. I have not played either. I think Quicksilver is a better game from what I can see. I’ll make a poll in my thread.

I played Quicksilver down in Allentown, it was pretty fun. I'll start laying out the GI circuit tomorrow. Using a 6 million dollar man harness for a base.

Watched a bunch of videos on Star Gazer, pretty but the lack of slings down by the flippers don't interest me.

#1164 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Watched a bunch of videos on Star Gazer, pretty but the lack of slings down by the flippers don't interest me.

Stargazer has slings. They're above the scoopy-things by the flippers. They suck too, toss the ball in the outlane a lot of the time.

#1165 2 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Stargazer has slings. They're above the scoopy-things by the flippers. They suck too, toss the ball in the outlane a lot of the time.

Yes, I prefer them in the conventional location. The video I watched showed a number of shots just "thudding" into the area where the roll overs are. If I'm building playfield modules from scratch they have to at least look interesting to me. The upper playfield looks great which is what initially caught my eye.

#1166 2 years ago

Ordered 50 Yopp lights for the controlled lamps this morning, give them a spin and see how they work out.

#1167 2 years ago

Wiring harness going through the dishwasher at work this morning.

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#1168 2 years ago

Already going through the wiring schematics planning my attack.

Interesting that the Quicksilver manual shows one wire going to the feature lamp bus on the playfield but most pins "in the wild" show 2 wires.

J2 SDB has a different breakout than Bally for the cab wiring, no surprise there.

#1169 2 years ago
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#1170 2 years ago

Moving along..

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#1171 2 years ago

Such a clean look! Scratch wire harness is much easier without the sockets in the way.

#1172 2 years ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

Such a clean look! Scratch wire harness is much easier without the sockets in the way.

Sadly my progress is impeded waiting for more yopps to come in.. but plenty to keep me occupied.

#1173 2 years ago
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#1174 2 years ago

A number of hours to get to this point, and many to go. I think wiring will be started by this weekend though.

Split up the 6MDM harness into sections too- power, switches and lamps.

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#1175 2 years ago

Quicksilver notes so far.

1) Can't use the Data East / Sega / Stern slingshot assemblies like I did with Seawitch. The slingshot and switch openings are irregular from Stern on Quicksilver so you must use old school separate switches and kickers. You might be able to cut off the switches and mount separate but I didn't want to butcher new assemblies I can use on something else. The holes on Seawitch are regular and I had no problem using DE mechs.

2) Can't use classic Bally (Pre-1980) slingshots either without modifications. The kicker head is too large and won't fit through the playfield opening. Classic Ballys of this period have triangle shaped holes in the playfield to accommodate this.

My way forward is to use the Bally units but swap the Bally pads with Data East pads which interchange. You could also take a belt sander to the Bally heads already mounted on the arms but one of mine has a crack already so just assume replace them both.

3) Later Bally linear slingshot mechs may work, I'll have to mock them up and see if they clear everything.

4) The lane guides at the top are controlled lamps which I didn't know, caused some confusion when I was planning out lamp wiring.

5) The outhole switch wire I either misplaced or never obtained so I made one from a rollover lane wire assembly bending my own wire to replace the shorter lane guide one. If do this don't make it too long as the outhole lever may strike it, so check for clearance.

6) If modifying a Bally harness (6MDM in this case) to work for this application, the switch matrix color code looks close but not exactly the same.

#1176 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

My way forward is to use the Bally units but swap the Bally pads with Data East pads which interchange.

I would like to see a photo of the heads for comparison and maybe a pic of one original Bally assembled sling arm / kicker head compared to a Data East assembled unit.

#1177 2 years ago
Quoted from Skidave:

I would like to see a photo of the heads for comparison and maybe a pic of one original Bally assembled sling arm / kicker head compared to a Data East assembled unit.

Sure! Let me know if you need better pictures, I'll take them when I get home. I grabbed a few off the internet for the moment.

The DE head makes a fine replacement for the Bally kicker, the Bally one is no longer available.
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#1178 2 years ago

Side by side.

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#1179 2 years ago

Nice. Thanks again for the pictures.

#1180 2 years ago
Quoted from Skidave:

Nice. Thanks again for the pictures.

No problem!

Finished install of the saucer eject mechanism tonight, from a Memory Lane I think. I'm going to rotate the coil 90 degrees but everything else is lined up. Four more leaf switches and I can start on the switch matrix wiring.

I'm taking my time, want it to look nice.

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#1181 2 years ago

Best news yet this morning! I thought the Yopps were going to be in USPS hell but made it onto the truck today.

2 hours ago they were still listed as being in Tennessee!

Be great to wrap them up tonight.

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#1182 2 years ago

Controlled lamps are in place, need to do a few switches and GI lamps and wiring begins.

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#1183 2 years ago

Started soldering in the GI and controlled lamp power this morning, should be done there after work.

#1184 2 years ago
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#1185 2 years ago

GI circuit is complete.

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#1186 2 years ago
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#1187 2 years ago
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#1188 2 years ago

Are the LEDs warm or cool?

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#1189 2 years ago
Quoted from Madmax541:

Are the LEDs warm or cool?
[quoted image]

Cool white for the Yopps. warm for the GI bulbs.

I'd not pay much mind to the GI color, way under volted to test sockets at the moment.

#1190 2 years ago
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#1191 2 years ago

very nice! I like organized wires.

#1192 2 years ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

very nice! I like organized wires.

But wait! There is more!

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#1193 2 years ago

If all goes well after work tomorrow I should have the connectors on for the lamps and test.

#1194 2 years ago
Quoted from Madmax541:

Are the LEDs warm or cool?
[quoted image]

What ya building? Another Seawitch?

#1195 2 years ago

No on seawitch

Just curious for any projects down the road

#1196 2 years ago
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#1197 2 years ago

Bumming- no LDB connectors tonight but have the coil power and trigger wires run and the lamp wires trimmed to length.

Tomorrow is another day.

#1198 2 years ago

Stitched up the lamp & power harnesses this morning and started on the LDB connectors, should have something to show for it after work.

Looking at Seawitch log, about the same time has passed doing its harness though I'm actually doing more at this point (coil wiring being laid in for example) and some mechs.

#1199 2 years ago

Showtime!

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#1200 2 years ago
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