(Topic ID: 298861)

Seawitch from scratch, Allentown edition (Bally/Stern multi-game platform)

By gdonovan

2 years ago


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  • 1,881 posts
  • 61 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 hours ago by gdonovan
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There are 1,881 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 38.
#701 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

1) So I should make sure the outhole switch wiring is as far as possible/practical from the flipper wiring.
2) would caps on the EOS switch help?
Its rare that it does it for what it is worth, maybe once a game tops. Flash Gordon is far more prone to it than my homebrew Seawitch.

I have a Vector that has pop bumper firing occasionally. It was much worse. To improve the situation, I separated the harness as much as possible to keep signal lines and 'power' lines apart. I added caps to the EOS switches on all 4 flippers and I added caps to the flipper buttons. All that said, it improved, but did not go away 100%. As Quench has said, it is inherent in this design. Without shield cabling and proper routing, maybe some RF chokes, etc....it will never be perfect.

I never put my scope on the switch matrix, but definitely noise spikes happen. For me, it is always the pop bumper and everyone once in a while the ramp timer starts because the MPU thinks the ramp switch was triggered.

#702 2 years ago
Quoted from Skidave:

I have a Vector that has pop bumper firing occasionally. It was much worse. To improve the situation, I separated the harness as much as possible to keep signal lines and 'power' lines apart. I added caps to the EOS switches on all 4 flippers and I added caps to the flipper buttons. All that said, it improved, but did not go away 100%. As Quench has said, it is inherent in this design. Without shield cabling and proper routing, maybe some RF chokes, etc....it will never be perfect.
I never put my scope on the switch matrix, but definitely noise spikes happen. For me, it is always the pop bumper and everyone once in a while the ramp timer starts because the MPU thinks the ramp switch was triggered.

I suspect it's the wiring run from the left flipper to the upper left flipper as the outhole wiring follows this route.

Since I made the switch and power harness seperate units fairly easy to isolate them.

I have a handful of EOS caps from William's applications, might chuck them on at the same time. Can't hurt and will extend the life of the switches.

It's very very minor issue, but would be nice to eliminate.

#703 2 years ago
Quoted from Skidave:

I have a Vector that has pop bumper firing occasionally.

The pop bumper is on the same switch return line as the vector scan reset button which happens to be right between the flipper mechs. Did you move that switch away from the flipper mechs and run the wires to it separate from the loom with flipper solenoid power?

#704 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Yes I'm aware I can just burn the Weebly version, if I'm going to start popping chips on and off that MPU I should look into a ZIF socket.

The first thing I do with Andrew's board is put a ZIF in U1.... even when I'm done modifying the code in that game I leave it.

Quoted from Quench:

ZIF sockets have wide pins that don't fit into standard PCB sized socket holes. You'll have to solder the ZIF socket to a shortened pin header or other mating socket that will fit the board.

Not the Aries ones, they have nice round pins that pop right into the regular sockets.

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/35/10001-universal-dip-zif-test-socket-337360.pdf

They don't work on every socket though, on my bally 6803 board the sockets must be too far recessed as the Aries ones just didn't make contact.

I have some of the other type you're describing and the leads are kind of flattened.

#705 2 years ago

Version 2 left.

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#706 2 years ago

Always use transfer paper!

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#707 2 years ago

Right side, version 2.

Better.

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#708 2 years ago

Let's give this a try.

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#709 2 years ago

You know when you have a good game going..

Edit: And then she spanks you!

1.1 million on the first ball, everything lit and even collect an extra ball!

End game with 1.2 million points.

bitch.

Oh, and I think poppers are fixed.

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#710 2 years ago

Which wires did you separate from harness?

#711 2 years ago

I kid you not, this made the problem go away.

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#712 2 years ago
Quoted from Madmax541:

Which wires did you separate from harness?

Since I made the various harness pieces separate it was easy to unbundle the power and activation lines from the switch and lamp matrix lines. I had stanchions left from the Last Action Hero harness so I used those to raise the power wiring away from the switch matrix to no avail.

Did not make any difference, matter of fact it might have made it a little worse! The right popper joined the party time to time during testing!

I had some Williams 2.2uF flipper caps rattling around my parts totes and I installed them on the lower flippers and played several games, I did not notice any irregular popper activity. I'll monitor and report back after a few more days play testing.

#713 2 years ago

Interesting, I have EBD with PB are a little sporadic.

That’s a non polarity cap right?
Can you show a better pic of wiring of the cap?

This is really great information to be sharing.

#714 2 years ago

Gave her blue eyes, not that you can really see them.

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#715 2 years ago
Quoted from Madmax541:

Interesting, I have EBD with PB are a little sporadic.
That’s a non polarity cap right?
Can you show a better pic of wiring of the cap?
This is really great information to be sharing.

2.2uF 250V non polarity cap hooked across the EOS switch.

I ran mine on the flipper coil terminal end- power feed terminal and center terminal. The power feed terminal will have two wires on it, the other runs down to the EOS.

For $2.50 each worth giving a try. Extend the life of your EOS at least.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C2.2M250VA-NP

#716 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The pop bumper is on the same switch return line as the vector scan reset button which happens to be right between the flipper mechs. Did you move that switch away from the flipper mechs and run the wires to it separate from the loom with flipper solenoid power?

No. I solved 95% of the issue separating the loom where I could manage to do it easily. I need to rebuild drop targets and when I have the playfield up again, I will investigate further. Thanks.

#717 2 years ago

Another item checked off!

All I have left is lower cab graphics, 3 cab/leg protectors to make and pickup 2 stainless bolts for the coin door.

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#718 2 years ago

Huh, I get random pop fires on my Quicksilver and Star Gazer scratch builds. I wonder if adding caps would help. I just assumed I didn’t know how to adjust a leaf switch.

#719 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Huh, I get random pop fires on my Quicksilver and Star Gazer scratch builds. I wonder if adding caps would help. I just assumed I didn’t know how to adjust a leaf switch.

For the couple of bucks it will cost give it a try! I played several games after posting last night and can say with certainty there was not a single errant pop.

#720 2 years ago

Did you put the harness wires back together making sure that didn’t have an impact?

#721 2 years ago
Quoted from Madmax541:

Did you put the harness wires back together making sure that didn’t have an impact?

It actually seemed to make it worse having them stood off.

I am planning on putting them back to some degree but using much shorter separators. I don't like having them that far away from the playfield in case you have to put the playfield on a bench they tend to break.

#722 2 years ago

Another item off the list.

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#723 2 years ago

Tall DE wire supports replaced by 3/4" spacers and loops.

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#724 2 years ago

Finally another MPU crash! Will post results in an hour.

#725 2 years ago

Quench

Been playing for an hour or two to see if I could get game to randomly set off a popper after moving the power/signal lines back towards the main harness and it crashed out.

1) Flippers were still active, both sets.

2) Controlled lamps were out.

3) GI was on.

4) LED displays were 100% dead!

5) No LED on MPU

No warning lights on Altek SDB.

Rebooting the MPU by pushing the reset button brought everything back up.

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#726 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Another item off the list.
[quoted image]

The cab protectors like you made and have a countersunk hole to allow for positive attachment of the protectors to the play field.

#727 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

The cab protectors like you made and have a countersunk hole to allow for positive attachment of the protectors to the play field.

I just put a line of E6000 glue on each one before attaching the legs, they will stay put when the legs are off.

#728 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Tall DE wire supports replaced by 3/4" spacers and loops.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Setting aside the MPU crashing finally, lets talk about random pops.

I took off all the tall Data East wiring supports that were spacing out the power/activation harness from the switch matrix. They were replaced with 3/4" nylon spacers and 1.25" #8 screws and loom loops to hold the wire. Looks more period correct and doesn't stick out as much.

I then proceeded to play the game like it owed me money and personally insulted my wife for good measure.

At best I thought I heard one pop bumper activation and even then I'm not sure if it was that or just the sound board catching up with the gameplay. Flippers were monkey hammered for dear life and I did not note any pop activation. To be on the safe side and consistent, I'm adding 2.2uF 250v NP caps to the upper flippers as well.

--------------------------------------------------------

On the MPU I'm on the fence. Tempted to toss the Alltek board in on general principle, however if I do so I can't run any custom code. Regardless the problem needs to be addressed and I'm leaning towards there is some issue with the Weebly board. 5 volt is rock solid and the MPU 5V supply and grounds have been isolated from everything else.

Tonight I'll pop out the socketed chips from the Weebly MPU, make sure they are clean and reseat them and see if I can replicate the problem again. The MPU is clearly jumping the tracks running the program, this is the forth time it has done so locking up.

I have a video post lock up but it only shows what I have described in detail. MPU led out, displays dead, controlled lamps dead.

#729 2 years ago

Weebly crashed twice. Pulled board, Alltek in.

Examined Weebly board, removed and inspected all sockected chips. Nothing unusual spotted.

Crashed twice after reinstalling.

#730 2 years ago

Pictures of Weebly board.

Andrew any ideas of what I can check? barakandl

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#731 2 years ago

Just some thoughts before bed:

1) Alltek is in and the wife and I hammered away for 16 games, no problems noted yet.

2) Thinking of installing the Weebly MPU in Flash Gordon and playing the snot out of it to see if the Weebly MPU fails as it did in Seawitch.

This could be a false test though. If it fails, then we can safely state there is an issue with the MPU. If it doesn't fail, there still could be an issue but it could be in relation to running the Seawitch software. Have to see if Seawitch fails in the same way with the Alltek or not.

3) Installed the two missing coin door bolts.

4) Reinstalled the original backglass for the Pintastic show and turned down the backglass lighting a bit to make the flaking less obvious. I'd rather have the old glass in going to the show in case of rapid temp changes causing delamination or some other misfortune.

Better to leave the new one at home in the heated garage.

#732 2 years ago

16 games with the Alltek this morning, no crash.

#733 2 years ago

So here is where I'm at in regards to cabinet art- This is just a rough outline that needs much embellishment yet.

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rough art (resized).jpgrough art (resized).jpg
#734 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

So here is where I'm at in regards to cabinet art- This is just a rough outline that needs much embellishment yet.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Are you going to add some green hi-lights?

#735 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Are going to add some green hi-lights?

Yes, I want to tie it in with the art on the head. This is me just doodling this morning to get the mental juices flowing.

#736 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Yes, I want to tie it in with the art on the head. This is me just doodling this morning to get the mental juices flowing.

You have a nice start working.

#737 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

You have a nice start working.

Starting to round out some ideas. Need to figure out how to do a white outline around the Stern logo to match the Bally one.

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#738 2 years ago

I think were moving in the right direction..

This is my favorite so far, just needs to be fleshed out.

Bally Stern_v3 (resized).jpgBally Stern_v3 (resized).jpg

#739 2 years ago

I like the Stern in gold from the first mockup. Gels with the retro font from the logo.

#740 2 years ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

I like the Stern in gold from the first mockup. Gels with the retro font from the logo.

I'm trying to not have too many colors so have to work with the palette I already have aside from maybe one extra. Not sure the red in bally is going to stay but it looks good, the light blue gets lost in the white border.

So far I like Version 3 best, this one I tried getting them on the same plain mindful I have to mirror image for the other side.

version 4 (resized).jpgversion 4 (resized).jpg

#741 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I'm trying to not have too many colors so have to work with the pallet I already have aside from maybe one extra. Not sure the red in bally is going to stay but it looks good, the light blue gets lost in the white border.

I like the Bally Flying Ball in the first rendition, but it might overpower the Bally/Stern combo you have working.

#742 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I like the Bally Flying Ball in the first rendition, but it might overpower the Bally/Stern combo you have working.

When I get home I'm going to isolate elements from this cab, I think I'm going to end up with a graphic along these lines.

994b5732bb17acf1caede54445313908fac93e58 (resized).jpg994b5732bb17acf1caede54445313908fac93e58 (resized).jpg
#743 2 years ago

I think we are 95% there gents.

I think I want to reduce the size a tick and call it good.

almost there (resized).jpgalmost there (resized).jpg

#744 2 years ago

I think this is the final guys, back from store with the vinyl and will do cut files in the morning.

Cab_final (resized).jpgCab_final (resized).jpg
#745 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I think this is the final guys, back from store with the vinyl and will do cut files in the morning.
[quoted image]

That looks great! I need to decide what to do on my cabinet. Since my Seawitch will be in a Bally cabinet, I don’t think it’s worth the trouble to paint it with the correct stencils.

#746 2 years ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

That looks great! I need to decide what to do on my cabinet. Since my Seawitch will be in a Bally cabinet, I don’t think it’s worth the trouble to paint it with the correct stencils.

Lot of different ways to get close, either stencils or just cut decals. One of the reasons I wanted a cutter is to do my own stencils. I like Pinball Pimp but at $180 a pop and the rate I go through pins a cutter will pay for itself.

24 games with the Alltek Mpu, not a single burp.

#747 2 years ago

I have 2 Alltek and no issues. Think I’m going Weebly on this one so I can use the new code.

#748 2 years ago

You didn't think I was just going to slap the same decal on the other side did you? That would be lazy.

About 3 hours worth of work right there making a different decal, totally worth it.

cab_photoshop (resized).pngcab_photoshop (resized).png
#749 2 years ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

I have 2 Alltek and no issues. Think I’m going Weebly on this one so I can use the new code.

I'd like to try slochar new Seawitch code, but I'll have to use the Weebly board.. which is not reliable in my Seawitch.

So far the Alltek board has just been humming right along without issue in Seawitch.

Also so far the Weebly board has worked fine in Flash Gordon, but I only have played 6 games.

I may convert a Bally -35 board here to MPU-200 spec and drop the Seawitch software in as a test.

At a loss why the Weebly crashes and I have not heard back from Andrew.

#750 2 years ago

Chop chop! Times awasting!

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