Seawitch from scratch, Allentown edition (Bally/Stern multi-game platform)

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Lets talk Stern drop targets! I think I have this problem licked. Stern made several changes over the years so no doubt some of this is old territory.
Springs were installed at (B) location. Tried increasing spring tension but this causes drop to "bow" when struck increasing bricking!
Studying the assembly it occurred to me if the lower spring mount was moved inward (A) this would reduce the horizontal spring force exerted on the drop and have it coming at a more optimal angle for pulling the drop downward.
This was successful. [quoted image]

LOL ! That "A" is the factory position for the springs. I did not think about that possibility happening.

The early style drop assemblies used a longer spring that attached to the hole in the drop target finger instead of being attached to a cross tube.

#652 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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I do strive to make the best project possible!

New Shield (resized).jpg

#653 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from cottonm4:
LOL ! That "A" is the factory position for the springs. I did not think about that possibility happening.
The early style drop assemblies used a longer spring that attached to the hole in the drop target finger instead of being attached to a cross tube.

I have run across a few pictures in the B location along with the arm attachment which doesn't work so good.

#654 2 years ago

CAD

cottonm4

Pinside+ Addict

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
I have run across a few pictures in the B location along with the arm attachment which doesn't work so good.

I would attribute that to someone replacing the targets at an earlier time and not getting things put back correctly into "A" position. It is a easy mistake to make.

#655 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Rail notching!

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#656 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Going to have to work hard to break that plastic.

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#657 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Quench:
By your description, yes. Now your challenge is finding why..

So far I have not had a single crash in some time, fingers are crossed its fixed.

#658 2 years ago

CAD

cottonm4

Pinside+ Addict

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Going to have to work hard to break that plastic.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Looks nice.

The only area of the plastic that is in danger is the scalloped area over the flipper. Should you want to do so, the rest of the clear plastic from the targets on down can be trimmed flush with the rest of the play field plastic.

#659 2 years ago

BRI

misterhare

Pinside member

Cleveland Heights, OH

6y 45,050 390 4

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Tried blue led in the inner loop, no liking and going to change back to white.
[quoted image]

What about 1-2 greens with whites?

#660 2 years ago

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Quench

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OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
So far I have not had a single crash in some time, fingers are crossed its fixed.

Fingers crossed indeed.

So how do you like the game play? Are you a classic Stern convert now?

#661 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Quench:
Fingers crossed indeed.
So how do you like the game play? Are you a classic Stern convert now?

I like this particular Stern, others I have tried not so much but that is a small list.

Considering a Stargazer addition as the next Stern "drop in" but the follow up I'll officially announce now is going to be Centaur.

That is going to be very challenging as the wiring is even more complex and I'll have to make from scratch the trough mechs.

#662 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from misterhare:
What about 1-2 greens with whites?

Possible. For the moment LED choices are "locked in" for the show with the only future change being brighter blues in the loop inserts. I think there are just 1SMD and would really pop with 2SMD or 4SMD. If a vendor is at the Pintastic show with LED's I'll buy some and change on the spot to see how they look. I'll be there for two days so will have some time on my hands.

All Titan elastics now, flippers are now blue.

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#663 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Too-do list update 10/28/21

Install driver board with resistors for LED operation *DONE*
Bricking on Stern 3 bank drops, try and tweak. *DONE*
Lexan protection for certain plastics. *DONE
3D print light shields *DONE* but still tinkering!
Ball chatter out of shooter lane, figure out how to minimize. *IN PROCESS*
Test out blue LEDs for inner loop area. *DONE*
Titan elastics *DONE*

Finish aluminum cab/leg protectors.
Tweak left slingshot, still shotgunning once in awhile. still.
Swap speaker.
Spinner graphics.
Cabinet graphics.

#664 2 years ago

Madmax541

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 110K 2,059

Looking good, your in home stretch with 3 weeks to go

#665 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Madmax541:
Looking good, your in home stretch with 3 weeks to go

Need to wrap up the fine tuning and get the cab graphics done.

#666 2 years ago

CAD

cottonm4

Pinside+ Addict

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Possible. For the moment LED choices are "locked in" for the show with the only future change being brighter blues in the loop inserts. I think there are just 1SMD and would really pop with 2SMD or 4SMD. If a vendor is at the Pintastic show with LED's I'll buy some and change on the spot to see how they look. I'll be there for two days so will have some time on my hands.
All Titan elastics now, flippers are now blue.
[quoted image]

2smds under the blue loop inserts look great. And they are far enough back you will not be blinded if that is a concern.

#667 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from cottonm4:
2smds under the blue loop inserts look great. And they are far enough back you will not be blinded if that is a concern.

They are far enough back and pointing straight up so not concerned.

Left to my own devices I'll spend weeks tuning the lighting on a title till satisfied. I have 2 cases of leds on hand just so I can play.

#668 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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We can make it better...

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#669 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Perfect every single plunge.

I got annoyed and made a new rail while I was at it.

What a pleasure it is to shoot now! Details matter.

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#670 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Purple leds in from Comet.

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#671 2 years ago

JDA

skink91

Pinside member

9y 108K 3,291 31

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Perfect every single plunge.
I got annoyed and made a new rail while I was at it.
What a pleasure it is to shoot now! Details matter.

I generally never full plunge now so probably just never really noticed it.

In general I just plunge to clear the flap and return to the upper flipper to try and clear the entire upper drop bank with one good shot.

#672 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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More light blocking parts for better backglass image.

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#673 2 years ago

CAD

cottonm4

Pinside+ Addict

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Perfect every single plunge.
I got annoyed and made a new rail while I was at it.
What a pleasure it is to shoot now! Details matter.
[quoted image]

You are welcome

#674 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Too-do list update 10/28/21 II

Install driver board with resistors for LED operation *DONE*
Bricking on Stern 3 bank drops, try and tweak. *DONE*
Lexan protection for certain plastics. *DONE
3D print light shields *DONE* but still tinkering!
Ball chatter out of shooter lane, figure out how to minimize. *DONE*
Test out blue LEDs for inner loop area. *DONE*
Titan elastics *DONE*
Tweak left slingshot, still shotgunning once in awhile. *DONE*
Swap speaker. *DONE*

Finish aluminum cab/leg protectors.
Spinner graphics.
Cabinet graphics.

The left slingshot turned out to be a dodgy switch that looks like it had been adjusted 20 or 50 more times than it should of have been in this life and had lost some springiness. New switch and deft adjustment and its working just fine.

If you're at Pintastic I hope you stop by and play this well tuned machine, I aim to make it the best playing Seawitch you have ever experienced.

#675 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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New speaker MUCH better.

Might have also upgraded size at same time.

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#676 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Tonight's notes:

Speaker sounds great!

Popped a 2A fuse on the playfield fuse holder for the flippers, was undersized (WHOOPS!) should at a minimum be a 5 amp (7 amp at the rectifier board)

Re-routed some of the playfield coil wiring so it was away from any switch lines. I had some leftover Data East wiring stand offs so put them to good use. Every once in awhile one of the poppers would get triggered by something. Played a few games after and did not notice any random actuation.

Need to tweak the spinner switch, out of fine adjustment after working on the harness.

#677 2 years ago

237

slochar

Pinside member

7y 86,550 6,883

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Popped a 2A fuse on the playfield fuse holder for the flippers, was undersized (WHOOPS!) should at a minimum be a 5 amp (7 amp at the rectifier board)

The stock under pf fuse is only for non flipper solenoids and should be 1 to 1.5 slow blow. If you have your flippers wired on the load side of that fuse yeah you'll need a larger one but any pf solenoid locked on might not pop it.

#678 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from slochar:
The stock under pf fuse is only for non flipper solenoids and should be 1 to 1.5 slow blow. If you have your flippers wired on the load side of that fuse yeah you'll need a larger one but any pf solenoid locked on might not pop it.

My wiring is unique- There is three fuse holders at the base of the playfield. One is for upper coils, One is for lower coils and the last is for flippers.

Normally there is one 1A fuse and it covers all the playfield coils except the flippers.

The flippers are actually only "fused" by the factory at the rectifier board with a 7A fuse which covers the whole 43 volt line.

I just had a mind fart when I was popping fuses in and should have put a 5A in instead of a 2A.
20210905_134749 (resized).jpg

#679 2 years ago

CAD

cottonm4

Pinside+ Addict

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
My wiring is unique- There is three fuse holders at the base of the playfield. One is for upper coils, One is for lower coils and the last is for flippers.
Normally there is one 1A fuse and it covers all the playfield coils except the flippers.
The flippers are actually only "fused" by the factory at the rectifier board with a 7A fuse which covers the whole 43 volt line.
I just had a mind fart when I was popping fuses in and should have put a 5A in instead of a 2A.
[quoted image]

I like the separate fuse for the flippers. If something happens with the flippers then the rectifier board 43 V is protected? Or double protected?

#680 2 years ago

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Quench

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OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
The flippers are actually only "fused" by the factory at the rectifier board with a 7A fuse which covers the whole 43 volt line.

If the playfield flipper fuse and rectifier board fuse are the same amperage, they're both going to blow at the same time so that playfield flipper fuse offers no extra protection. If anything it could be adding resistance.

Just add fuses to anything where 5A/7A will cause meltdowns like the knocker (which you've already done), the coin lockout coil if it's wired and the mechanical chime coils.
Side note, your chime box is Gottlieb with only 3 chimes. Bally and Stern used 4 chimes in their early solid state games.

Otherwise she's looking a treat.

#681 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Quench:
If the playfield flipper fuse and rectifier board fuse are the same amperage, they're both going to blow at the same time so that playfield flipper fuse offers no extra protection. If anything it could be adding resistance.

1) The flipper fuse is actually smaller (5A) than the rectifier board (7A)

I'd prefer the flipper fuse to go sooner rather than later, the 7A is a backup in case something catastrophic in general happens.

2) The triple fuse holder is also a "junction block" for the double feed line from the rectifier board.

Quoted from Quench:
Side note, your chime box is Gottlieb with only 3 chimes. Bally and Stern used 4 chimes in their early solid state games.

Yes, because I already owned the Gottlieb box and I'll install a second with a single chime as soon as another crosses my path! Working with what I have on hand...

Quoted from Quench:
Otherwise she's looking a treat.

Thank you! Its been a fun project.

Seriously considering Flash Gordon again for a "module" and put the cabinet I have been working on up in the rack. I even have room for the flash strobe unit and worked out a way to do the Flash Gordon animated display lights.

The Flash Gordon cabinet as a whole is such a work of art though..

#682 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from cottonm4:
I like the separate fuse for the flippers. If something happens with the flippers then the rectifier board 43 V is protected? Or double protected?

The smaller 5A for the flippers should go first, the rectifier board has the upsized 7A used on later applications in case something truly bad happens in general.

#683 2 years ago

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Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
1) The flipper fuse is actually smaller (5A) than the rectifier board (7A)

The 7A fuse is spec'd on Seawitch specifically because of the four flippers. Double flip repeatedly for 10 minutes and see if the 5A fuse lasts.
The real question is whether it should be a slow blow fuse as Stern spec'd. In my mind it should be fast blow like Bally does for better protection so if you're worried about safety consider this first.

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Yes, because I already owned the Gottlieb box and I'll install a second with a single chime as soon as another crosses my path!

Cool, just wanted to make sure you weren't unpleasantly surprised down the track

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Seriously considering Flash Gordon again for a "module" and put the cabinet I have been working on up in the rack.

I guess the question is what's the long term goal. Do you intend on keeping two Flash Gordons?

#684 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Quench:
The 7A fuse is spec'd on Seawitch specifically because of the four flippers. Double flip repeatedly for 10 minutes and see if the 5A fuse lasts.

The 2A fused lasted for 33 games with me monkey hammering the flippers at times to see if I could break anything.

I'm fairly comfortable with running a 5A fuse. I'll consider swapping to a fast blow though.

Bally/Stern etc were more concerned with the machines up and continuing to collect revenue, I'd rather err on the side of caution and "underfuse" in a home environment.

Quoted from Quench:
I guess the question is what's the long term goal. Do you intend on keeping two Flash Gordons?

The first one with CPR backglass and playfield will be for sale or trade as soon as the second is operational.

Would be foolish to sell the reference beforehand.

#685 2 years ago

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Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
I'd rather err on the side of caution and "underfuse" in a home environment.

If you want to underfuse then use a fast blow fuse like Bally did. I've harped on about this a few times elsewhere but have you changed F2 on the rectifier board from slow blow to fast blow?

#686 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Quench:
If you want to underfuse then use a fast blow fuse like Bally did. I've harped on about this a few times elsewhere but have you changed F2 on the rectifier board from slow blow to fast blow?

Not yet, I'm still trying to finish other aspects of the machine before polishing details. Only 18 days till show time!

#687 2 years ago

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Quench

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OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
I aim to make it the best playing Seawitch you have ever experienced.

Does this include using @slochar's latest code update?

#688 2 years ago

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gdonovan

Pinside member

Quoted from Quench:
Does this include using slochar's latest code update?

Factory code.

#689 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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I hate Silhouette Studio software, I really do.

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#690 2 years ago

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gdonovan

Pinside member

One side is complete.

Grabbed a photo off the 'net, squared it up in Photoshop, set the colors to what I wanted (green and blue as a nod to Seawitch) bent, folded and mutilated to Data East backbox dimensions, exported to Silhouette Studio (which sucks) and started cutting vinyl.

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Key post

#691 2 years ago

AGE

A_Bord

Pinside member

8y 63,300 884

That looks so good.

#692 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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People do this for a living? PITA.

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#693 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from A_Bord:
That looks so good.

Thanks! Might not be the most inspiring art job to ever grace the side of a cabinet, but doesn't look like it was decorated by someone on meth with magic markers either.

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#694 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Decals- If I was going to do them different (and I just might on general principle!) I would have done the white as a solid base instead of having cut outs for the colors. The appearance would have been smoother and it would look nicer up close.

Just overlay the colors over the white base.

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MIDWAY_RIGHT_black_EXAMPLE (resized).jpg

#695 2 years ago

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gdonovan

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
Re-routed some of the playfield coil wiring so it was away from any switch lines. I had some leftover Data East wiring stand offs so put them to good use. Every once in awhile one of the poppers would get triggered by something. Played a few games after and did not notice any random actuation.

Quench

This still happens time to time, top popper only. If I have time left before the the show I think I'm going to chase it down a bit and see if I can isolate the problem.

#696 2 years ago

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Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from gdonovan:
@Quench This still happens time to time, top popper only. If I have time left before the the show I think I'm going to chase it down a bit and see if I can isolate the problem.

This nearly always happens with the pop bumper that's on the same switch return wire as the outhole. Why? Because that switch return wire is run long distance in the loom with the flipper wires to the outhole and the current collapse from the flipper release gets picked up as noise.

#697 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Quench:
This nearly always happens with the pop bumper that's on the same switch return wire as the outhole. Why? Because that switch return wire is run long distance in the loom with the flipper wires to the outhole and the current collapse from the flipper release gets picked up as noise.

1) So I should make sure the outhole switch wiring is as far as possible/practical from the flipper wiring.

2) would caps on the EOS switch help?

Its rare that it does it for what it is worth, maybe once a game tops. Flash Gordon is far more prone to it than my homebrew Seawitch.

#698 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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Quoted from Quench:
Does this include using slochar's latest code update?

I somehow missed that, downloaded this morning and tucked it away for later.

When I have a free moment to get back to the damaged Supersonic MPU I might convert it to a MPU-200 spec for entertainment.

Yes I'm aware I can just burn the Weebly version, if I'm going to start popping chips on and off that MPU I should look into a ZIF socket.

#699 2 years ago

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gdonovan

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I'm learning.. took 3 hours the first time, 45 minutes this time and will look better. I was able to do some some smoothing in Photoshop and improved my cutting technique.

I'd convert to a vector file, but only the deluxe version of Silhouette Studio supports that.

Greedy bastards.

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#700 2 years ago

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Quench

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