(Topic ID: 298861)
Linked Games
Centaur
Bally, 1981-
Fathom
Bally, 1981
-
Flash Gordon
Bally, 1981
-
Nitro Ground Shaker
Bally, 1980
-
Quicksilver
Stern Electronics, 1980
-
Seawitch
Stern Electronics, 1980
-
Silverball Mania
Bally, 1980
-
Skateball
Bally, 1980
There are more than 8 games linked to this topic.
Click here to show all linked games
Click here to show all linked games
Topic Gallery
Quoted from gdonovan:Making decals for this on Saturday with the silhouette pro.
[quoted image]
If you’re able to do this I know a lot of us need them!
Ottawa, ON
Quoted from FantasticPinball:You will like this
I'm aware of the former Greatwich playfield operation putting out new and more accurate playfields, I have been watching the various posts and announcements.
Nothing I'm interested in for this particular project thanks.
Wichita, KS
Some notes on things I would have done different or learned.
1) The Diamond Clear is touchy when filling inserts. Takes a few days to dry and prone to bubbling or outgasing. Still worth using though, 2 part clear will give you bubbles to time to time as well but dries quicker. I'm going to try and clear a playfield in the future with the Diamond clear from a spray gun now that I have finally obtained Xylene. Other people have done it with rollers or brushes but the stuff is touchy. I think thinned properly and shot out of a gun holds promise.
2) Overfill the inserts! No matter how little sunk you think they are, odds are more than you think. Fill them right up till you get a good bubble or you will be doing this again. Make sure the inserts are down all the way and secure.
3) If replacing "x" with waterslides increase the brightness of the color unless you are applying on a white background.
It will darken when applied. Test prints on white paper fool your ass it looks good.
4) When replacing partially missing text, just replace all of it for that section. Matching the hue, spacing, font to save a few good letters or numbers isn't worth the time expended.
5) Don't use ANY art pen with fine line inks. Most solvents and clears will eat them away in milliseconds regardless of what the manufacture states. Pens with oil based pigments are ok but not generally as fine a line as I'd like. Found this out the hard way on Flash Gordon when days worth of work around the poppers vanished in seconds when I cleared. It is possible to use an art pen with ink but you would have to clear the location with acrylic UV stable clear first which I'm not a fan of.
6) Fresh single edge razor blades are the best tool for quickly leveling clear bubbles and blobs. 90 degrees to the surface being planned, go one direction and then come at it from another. If uncomfortable add some protective tape adjacent to both sides of your target work to raise the blade away from the rest of the playfield. It works great!
Quoted from gdonovan:Make sure the inserts are down all the way and secure.
I had not thought about mentioning this to you before. When I had my Big Game play field restored, I was trying to economize and told the restore guy to just go with the inserts as they were. Now, some of them are moving around under the clear and showing separation cloudiness.
When he gets started on my Cheetah play field his instructions are to remove all inserts and reset with epoxy. But if you pushed them down hard, you might be OK.
Quoted from cottonm4:But if you pushed them down hard, you might be OK.
I epoxyed them down, but it was after I started touch up. A few had to be touched up again when I discovered they moved.
Quoted from gdonovan:What a PITA.
[quoted image]
Quoted from gdonovan:I'll get used to the software I guess but feels very non intuitive. The windows around the cards are larger so they had to be resized, that was fairly easy.
[quoted image]
I'm impressed !
I'm guessing your dark blue was the color of the vinyl you could buy?
Quoted from cottonm4:I'm impressed !
I'm guessing your dark blue was the color of the vinyl you could buy?
Its what the hobby store had in stock! And not terribly far off from stock either.
Just ignore the credit lamp and missing hold down screws 
20211017_183906 (resized).jpg20211017_183958 (resized).jpgQuoted from cottonm4:Put a small amount of epoxy on the underside maybe?
Did them all to be safe.
Quoted from gdonovan:Its what the hobby store had in stock! And not terribly far off from stock either.
Just ignore the credit lamp and missing hold down screws [quoted image][quoted image]
How did you do the white lettering?
and
Could this be done with peelable vinyl. Like Pinball Pimp. So maybe you could do the opposite cut, lay the vinyl down and do the weed out and then paint the "rams horn" any color you wished?
Quoted from cottonm4:How did you do the white lettering?
and
Could this be done with peelable vinyl. Like Pinball Pimp. So maybe you could do the opposite cut, lay the vinyl down and do the weed out and then paint the "rams horn" any color you wished?
1) White letters were done with the cutter, Oracle 651
2) Sure you could do removable vinyl and stencil, I intend to at some point for playfield work and cab stencils.
Some modifications to the Stern image, the Bally shooter is longer.
Not enthusiastic about the Cameo 4. The software is terrible and I have been using photoshop for over 20 years! Some operations are a snap, others obtuse with zero explanations.
The machine itself is finicky: this morning it errored out with "no registration marks found" and then out of the blue started working again. Then it stopped cutting! It would make a pass like it was cutting and nothing... removing the blade and tapping the housing got it working again.
Not a very auspicious beginning.
Quoted from cottonm4:Are you looking for a side job? We'll keep you busy.
I have been toying with opening a Pinside shop for some of the stuff I have come up with for various Data East pins. Might explore it with more vigor now that I have this vinyl cutter and a 3D printer.
Fun fact: I did consider filling in the Bally credit hole in the apron, decided to leave it to see how many people catch it.
Quoted from gdonovan:I have been toying with opening a Pinside shop for some of the stuff I have come up with for various Data East pins. Might explore it with more vigor now that I have this vinyl cutter and a 3D printer.
Fun fact: I did consider filling in the Bally credit hole in the apron, decided to leave it to see how many people catch it.
I noticed the credit hole. Considering the hawk eyes most pinsiders appear to have, I doubt that credit hole would be overlooked 
What I noticed from the Bally Apron is that it is longer which required a larger setback between the apron's edge and the ram's horn decal. And also how the apron pulls back (forward?) all the way to the two support brackets with no space in between.
EDIT: There are also no holes for the 2 screws that Stern uses to hold down the apron.
How does Bally manage that attachment?
Does the apron get screwed to the two support brackets?
Will you need to drill a hole in each support bracket to screw the apron into position?
How does the play field side of the Ball apron attach to the play field?
8da29864ef14fd2ac6a20c9ad6d4321906e44948 (resized).jpg
If you make for me a Pinball Pimp style masking tool for the ram's horn and allow me to paint the ram's horn in any color I wish and then give me the ability to add the white or black apron card borders and lettering, and the dots/spots, you would be golden.
Let me do the math: I can buy one of the rigs you just bought for $300.00 or so, try to learn the software which you say is not intuitive, and also buy the vinyl supplies, the prospect of me paying you some money to make 1 or 2 of these "kits" for me looks like a swinging deal.
Where do I send my money? 
Quoted from cottonm4:I noticed the credit hole. Considering the hawk eyes most pinsiders appear to have, I doubt that credit hole would be overlooked
What I noticed from the Bally Apron is that it is longer which required a larger setback between the apron's edge and the ram's horn decal. And also how the apron pulls back (forward?) all the way to the two support brackets with no space in between.
The aprons are very close in size but the card holes are larger on the Bally aprons! I had to make the white card wrap around taller so that will throw off some perspective and I had to juggle the ram horn location so it didn't crash into anything. The center of the ball drain is rounded with the Bally, squared off on Stern.
The Bally shooter gauge is also longer and I had to stretch the shooter decal so it looks in proportion. The hole is also rounded, not a rectangle like on the Stern.
Quoted from cottonm4:EDIT: There is also no holes for the 2 screws that Stern uses to hold down the apron. How does Bally manage that attachment?
Does the apron get screwed to the two support brackets?
Will you need to drill a hole in each support bracket to screw the apron into position?
how does the play field side of the Ball apron attach to the play field?
The front of the apron has 2 loops attached to the playfield the apron "drops on" which you can see on the attached picture. There is two tabs on the apron that lock into these loops.
The back has two small "L" brackets that attach to the bottom of the playfield, if you look close you can see the holes.
71f04be7ba0f8be136219243ff480029b216b486 (resized).jpg
I just noticed something.
This is my Big Game apron. It matches Seawitch and Nine Ball.
But Catacomb, a game that came out later has different style and text on the apron. I don't know when Stern made the change. There are 3 Sterns between Nine Ball and Catacomb. Those are Free Fall, Lightning, and Split Second. I have no idea what their aprons are like nor when Stern made the change.
Quoted from cottonm4:I just noticed something.
This is my Big Game apron. It matches Seawitch and Nine Ball.
[quoted image]
But Catacomb, a game that came out later has different style and text on the apron. I don't know when Stern made the change. There are 3 Sterns between Nine Ball and Catacomb. Those are Free Fall, Lightning, and Split Second. I have no idea what their aprons are like nor when Stern made the change.
[quoted image]
Are any wide body?
Mash up of Bally and Stern parts.
1) You can see where the Bally shooter gauge, Stern lower and middle trough pieces intersect needed some minor grinding as the Bally shooter is longer.
2) Upper Stern trough piece cleared to make room for Bally apron hold down.
3) Stern shooter lane kickout plate modified and moved up to clear Bally shooter gauge.
4) Last picture, nothing special. Used Stern outhole mech came with a Bally coil.
20211018_160341 (resized).jpg20211018_160347 (resized).jpg20211018_160407 (resized).jpg20211018_162233 (resized).jpg
Quoted from gdonovan:Are any wide body?
Starting at Meteor, the "early" style of apron inking looks to end at Nine Ball. Of the pins before Nine Ball, Big Game, Cheetah and Flight 2000 are wide body pins.
Freefall is the first pin after Nine Ball. But with an altogether different apron graphics package.
Freefall is a widebody
Screen Shot 2021-10-18 at 4.34.20 PM (resized).png
After Freefall, Lightning was produced as a standard size cabinet. Lightning looks to the the first one to use this different style of apron graphics I noticed on my Catacomb. ( It is hard to tell with the pics but I think I am guessing correctly here.)
Lighting looks like it also has two different color of apron graphics. But I am thinking is just because of different lighting (which is quite revealing itself).
f3bb4318e37cb3677f4cbefbed598a1a (resized).jpg
After Lightning, Split Second is produced.
Split Second is a wide body.
Split Second has the same apron graphics package as Freefall.
Then is it Catacomb. A standard size cab.
Next is Iron Maiden.
IM is a wide body.
I cannot find a picture of the IM apron. I'm guessing it will be like Freefall.
Viper follows IM.
Viper is a wide body with yet a different apron graphics package.
Screen Shot 2021-10-18 at 4.26.11 PM (resized).png
Then there was Cue with only 6 units produced.
Dragonfist is next.
DF is a standard body cab.
The apron graphics are hard to see in the pic but it has the later style apron graphics. I would need to retrieve my DF apron from its restoration parts box.
Orbitor One is the last of the Stern Electronics pins.
It is a different animal, for sure.
Quoted from gdonovan:Are any wide body?
The only difference between the standard body apron graphics and the wide body graphics is spacing.
All Stern did for its wide body production was to saw 2 lockdown bars in half and bond the 2 longer halves together.
Same for the apron. Sawed down the middle and spliced not wider position with spot welded steel plate. The rams's horns were adjusted accordingly.
Quoted from PinballAir:cottonm4
What was the first stern electronics game after the take over of CC?
And were any of the early games already planned by CC?
gdonovan : sorry to run rogue on your sea witch thread.
Cant wait to play it in November
Its all good, knowledge is always welcome!
See updated info in 'mash up" post above, I'm working fast tonight.
I’d recommend routing out a bit of depth with a forstner bit for the post screws to be able to bite more. Unless you’re using machine screws up from the bottom to mimic the carriage bolt method SEI did originally.
Quoted from play_pinball:I’d recommend routing out a bit of depth with a forstner bit for the post screws to be able to bite more. Unless you’re using machine screws up from the bottom to mimic the carriage bolt method SEI did originally.
Same method used on most Bally pins, its plenty strong. They only time they sunk them in was to clear hardware like drop target assemblies.
When I did this on my Quicksilver build, it was a mistake to not sink them more. Only catching a few threads resulted in loose posts biting up the shitty Mirco clear. Had to replace them with machine screws from underneath.
Quoted from play_pinball:When I did this on my Quicksilver build, it was a mistake to not sink them more. Only catching a few threads resulted in loose posts biting up the shitty Mirco clear. Had to replace them with machine screws from underneath.
These have long 2 inch machine thread hex fasteners but I'll check thread engagement to be safe. Spec is Data East pins which are different part number.
Quoted from PinballAir:cottonm4
What was the first stern electronics game after the take over of CC?
And were any of the early games already planned by CC?
gdonovan : sorry to run rogue on your sea witch thread.
Cant wait to play it in November
You are right. Stern Pinball was the first pinball after CC. Hot Hand was the first Stern to use the ram's horn apron graphics.
Quoted from play_pinball:When I did this on my Quicksilver build, it was a mistake to not sink them more. Only catching a few threads resulted in loose posts biting up the shitty Mirco clear. Had to replace them with machine screws from underneath.
Quoted from gdonovan:These have long 2 inch machine thread hex fasteners but I'll check thread engagement to be safe. Spec is Data East pins which are different part number.
In aircraft, proper fastener protocol is that 2 threads have to protrude from the threaded hole. This is the only way to assure you have a connection.
Pins are not as exacting but the principal applies.
Quoted from play_pinball:When I did this on my Quicksilver build, it was a mistake to not sink them more. Only catching a few threads resulted in loose posts biting up the shitty Mirco clear. Had to replace them with machine screws from underneath.
I think original playfields are a little thinner so tnuts should be okay
Quoted from play_pinball:When I did this on my Quicksilver build, it was a mistake to not sink them more. Only catching a few threads resulted in loose posts biting up the shitty Mirco clear. Had to replace them with machine screws from underneath.
Decided to follow up on your comment, not happy at all. The original Bally fasteners are longer than what is currently available clearly.
I'll have to give this some thought. Machine screws from the bottom is going to be the solution I think as you suggested in the high impact areas.
20211019_052018 (resized).jpg#6 - 2-1/4” machine screws work well without having to trim them. Hard to find specific length though and it looks like my order link from Bolt Dropper is dead. 2-1/2 and some super champs to trim will work.
Back off topic…
Quoted from cottonm4:You are right. Stern Pinball was the first pinball after CC.
#rawhide/#Stampede and Disco were all before
Pinball, however Pinball was the first solid state (though also released as an EM).
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
