(Topic ID: 201861)

Scoring problem on 1957 Williams Ten Pins

By brundaged

6 years ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by brundaged
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#1 6 years ago

I can't figure out why my Williams Ten Pins won't score correctly. The two videos linked below demonstrate the problem:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AmsGX6AtNo1mm7xBOEJrO14YVI5gqQ

In the videos it's scoring a strike for each frame, so it should advance the 10-reel 3 times at the end of each frame.

In the first video the 10-point bell is enabled and the bell sounds 3 times each frame, but the 10-reel only advances twice. The bell leaf switch is located on the same relay as the 10-point reel, and I can visually see the reel switch connecting and sparking 3 times, but it only advances twice.

In the second video the 10-point bell is disabled by inserting a piece of cardboard between the leaves of the bell switch. Now the reel advances correctly 3 times on each frame. Why would disabling the bell "fix" the problem?

The second video also demonstrates another problem: The 100-reel sometimes advances when the 10-reel hits 9, then again when it rolls over to 0. This happens occasionally whether the bell is enabled or not.

The weird thing is none of these problems occur when I trigger the 10-point relay manually: The bell chimes and the score reels advance correctly every time.

Has anyone seen anything like this before? I'm wondering if the voltages are off, but I don't have documentation to check against. Another theory is the 10-point relay is weak or oscillating and creating erratic switch contact.

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

I wasn't able to check out the videos (probably me)
but anyways, this happens on both players, ha..

It does happen on both players.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Do you have the schematic? Or picture of the relay?
Does it have a self-hold switch?

No, I wish I had schematics.

A picture of the relays is attached. The top relay (with the piece of cardboard between one of the switches) is the 10-point relay. The 1-point relay is below it.

I'm not sure what you mean by a self-hold switch, but I assume you mean switches like the Tilt switch that are held in position after one relay fires and change position when a separate relay fires. This one doesn't have that.

20171104_031658433_iOS (resized).jpg20171104_031658433_iOS (resized).jpg

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

I have one of these, but it's been so long since I went
through it, but does it have a Player-Step-Up-Unit with
a spring loaded wiper board?

It does. There are actually two spring-loaded wiper boards: One in the head that controls the frames, and the other in the base that controls player scoring.

I rebuilt both of them trying to solve this problem. They work a lot more smoothly now, but the problem remains.

#9 6 years ago

My best theory is that the coil is oscillating, causing the switches to sometimes make poor contact and other times make multiple contacts. That could explain all of the symptoms, since disabling the bell might leave more power available to the coil so it's stronger.

I'm going to try swapping out that coil. If that doesn't help, I need to figure out what the proper voltages are supposed to be coming out of the transformer.

#10 6 years ago

Thanks to everyone that responded. Replacing the 10-point relay coil solved the problem. Hooray for Pinball Resource!

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