(Topic ID: 162404)

Score reel won't reset but works fine during game


By n1teowl

3 years ago



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  • 23 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by dasvis
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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aBig-Brave-Score-Reset_(resized).jpg

#1 3 years ago

I have a Gottlieb Outer Space that has a 100's score reel that won't reset. It causes the entire reset process to hang up and the score motor to keep spinning. If I manually set the reel to zero, then the machine resets fine and the scoring reel works correctly for that game. That is, until the next game. If the reel itself is working okay, then I figure it must be due to the reset process. Any idea what this could be? Thanks in advance for your help.

#2 3 years ago

Check the reset relay in the head of the game. One of the contacts could be out of adjustment.

#3 3 years ago

That reel just needs cleaning/adjusting. Tons of threads on score reels. I'll try and find one of mine.

#4 3 years ago

Have you pulled the reel out and manually clicked through the positions to see where it is hanging? Maybe not quite clicking on to the 9? That's pretty common.

#5 3 years ago

Thanks for the advice. I'll check the reset relay. The reel itself works fine, which can be seen once the game is started with the reel manually set to zero. I did manually click through the positions and nothing seems to be catching.

#6 3 years ago

New information: All 100 point scoring has stopped on the playfield. Other scoring, including the 500 point scores, seem to work. When I get a game going and activate the 100 point relay by hand, the 100 point reel does turn and score.

#7 3 years ago

Yet more info: With the 100s reel set to 9, the score motor turns and it won't stop. As soon as I manually turn the reel to zero, the score motor stops and the game is ready to go.

#8 3 years ago

Hi n1teowl
want to stay on problem "Score-Reel does not reset at start-up" ? I know not much about 2-player-games.
Here: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/emTips.html -> Out of Sight is a 2-player-game -> http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0451.html -> they write about "Score-Reels are resetted through Switches P3 and P4 ..."

I show a snippet of schema "2-player-game Big Brave" -> I see switches P3C and P4C. I belive to see the player-Unit here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1728&picno=22091&zoom=1 - a bit above the center of the picture -> on the axis are gear /teeth to actuate the P1, P2, P3, P4, P5 switches - want to investigate there ? Greetings Rolf

aBig-Brave-Score-Reset_(resized).jpg

#9 3 years ago

Thanks Rolf! I will take a look at those links and see if I can make sense of that schematic. I will let you know what I find...

1 week later
#10 3 years ago

A few more questions. What causes the reel to reset at the beginning of the game? The machine can tell when the non-working reel is at zero, so that switch works (no issues when I manually move it to zero). Whatever is supposed to be telling the reel to keep turning until it hits zero is not working. All other reels reset fine. The non-working reel does work during a game, so the reel itself functions okay.

What does the "runout" switch do?

Thanks!

#11 3 years ago

As Rolf shows in his schematic snippet (post #8), during the reset cycle there are a set of switches on the player unit that close to supply pulses from a 1A (and also a 4A) motor switch. These pulses are what step the score units back around to zero. On a two-player game, these switches are on the player unit in a switch stack operated by two of the cams. On a four-player game, these switches are on the Z1 and Z2 relays, and the Z1 and Z2 relays themselves are energized by rivets and wipers on the player unit disc.

The runout switch on a score unit opens when the score unit gets to zero. When the runout switch opens, it stops that score unit from stepping any more. In this way, each score unit stops itself when it gets to zero. When all the score units get back to zero, another switch on each score unit closes. These are wired in series, and when all of them are closed, that signals the player unit that it's OK to start moving again, which will complete the reset and start the game at ball 1, player 1.

- TimMe

#12 3 years ago

#13 3 years ago

Hi n1teowl
when I am not sure - "do I look in the right place to locate the specific fault ?": I try to produce a similar fault. When I succeed in this: "I know I am looking at the right place".

The information You have is: There are gears sitting on the axis of Player-Unit. When the Player-Unit is stepped: Another Switchstack (on another gear) is activated. You know "Player-2 Score Drums are resetted AFTER Player-1 Score Drums". Stand at the Backbox and look at the axis of Player-Unit. Let somebody start a game - See how the Score-Drums of Player-2 start resetting when the Player-Unit is stepped forward one step ?
Toggle-off the pin, manually set ALL Score Drums of Player-2 to some points. Sneak-in stripes of paper into the switches "You believe the switch is for resetting a Score Drum of Player-2". (The switches can move --- but the stripe of paper does "not allow current to flow"). Let somebody start a game ---
DO THE Score Drums of Player-2 NOT reset ? Then pull the insulating stripes of paper out - one stripe after the other - Do THE Score-Drums NOW reset ?

Then say "probably THIS (other) Switches / this gear is for resetting the Score Drums of Player-1".
Toggle-off the pin, manually set ALL Score Drums of Player-1 to some points. Sneak-in stripes of paper into the switches "You believe the switch is for resetting a Score Drum of Player-1". Let somebody start a game ---
DO THE Score Drums of Player-1 NOT reset ? Then pull the insulating stripes of paper out - one stripe after the other - Do THE Score-Drums NOW reset ?
AND: Pulling out ONE of the "stripe of papers" has NO effect (on resetting): You have found the faulty switch. Greetings Rolf

#14 3 years ago

Hi n1teowl
do not forget: Each Score Drum is actuated through two different circuitrys - when playing (through the X-Points-Relay) --- when resetting (our problem).
A switch can be faulty but also: A wire in that circuitry can be broken-off SOMEWHERE - we might have to use a Jumper-Wire to test "part(s) of the circuitry". Greetings Rolf

#15 3 years ago

Thanks for all the advice! I went thoroughly through the player stepper unit and it seemed to be the source of all the problems. The switches were very dirty, so I cleaned the stepper pads and the switch contacts on the back of the unit. I also adjusted a few iffy looking switches and was able to get things back in order. Thanks again for your help.

#16 3 years ago

Ugh. I now have the exact same problem I had before, but on a completely different reel. Now the 10s reel on player 1 won't reset, but will play during a game if reset manually to zero. Does this help with the diagnosis?

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from n1teowl:

Ugh. I now have the exact same problem I had before, but on a completely different reel. Now the 10s reel on player 1 won't reset, but will play during a game if reset manually to zero. Does this help with the diagnosis?

the run out switch on that reel is not making good contact. clean and adjust

#18 3 years ago

Everything seems fine there. Switches are gapped properly and making good contact. I tested continuity when closed and looks okay.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from n1teowl:

Everything seems fine there. Switches are gapped properly and making good contact. I tested continuity when closed and looks okay.

Testing continuity on an EM switch does not always mean the switch will work. If the switch tension is too light, it will test fine with an ohmmeter, but in actual play, the contact is not good enough to handle the load needed to operate whatever it is switching.
Been there, done that.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from n1teowl:

Now the 10s reel on player 1 won't reset, but will play during a game if reset manually to zero. Does this help with the diagnosis?

look at the switches on the reel as it is struggling to reset...you may be able to spot a blue spark on the one that is having intermittent contact. Clean the hell out of them and go back through and adjust. Manually click through and watch the action so you know what it's supposed to be doing. You'll get it dialed in eventually.

#21 3 years ago

I don't think it's a switch tension issue. I turned on the machine and while it was trying to reset, I pushed on both switches to make sure they were making good contact (the reel was set on "1"). As soon as I closed the remaining open switch, the machine finished resetting.

#22 3 years ago

Alas, you were correct dasvis and wickerman. The switch was making contact, but not quite enough. When I pushed up on the relay while trying to reset, suddenly the score reel started turning. I let go - it stopped. I cleaned the switches some more and tightened up the switch stack and it took care of the problem. Thanks a ton for your help. I can finally play it!

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from n1teowl:

Alas, you were correct dasvis and wickerman. The switch was making contact, but not quite enough. When I pushed up on the relay while trying to reset, suddenly the score reel started turning. I let go - it stopped. I cleaned the switches some more and tightened up the switch stack and it took care of the problem. Thanks a ton for your help. I can finally play it!

Great!
Yeah, some of those Gottlieb relays are difficult to get adjusted just right. Really short leafs & very tight clearances.

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