Score reel coil stays energized when resetting

Hi,

I have a Gottlieb King Rock that the player2 10000 point score reel coil stays energized when resetting

Game works perfectly all around but only for player2:
If the score is 10000, the 1 coil stays energized and K relay also stays energized
If the score is 11000, both 1's will reset to 0
If the score is 15000, the score will get to 60000 and then the 6 stays energized and K relay also stays energized
When the 10k stays energized and I manually move the 1k, then they reset normally

I've been trying to figure this out without schematics...
EOS of 10k is adjusted correctly
1k switches are all open when at 0
player 2-3 reset relay seems to be adjusted correctly

thanks in advance!

#2 1 year ago

MarkG

Fun With Pinball

9y 71,300 4,355

OP
Quoted from NickNitro:
and K relay also stays energized

Once the K relay is activated it holds itself active until the normally closed EOS switch on one of the four score reels opens.
King Rock K relay (resized).jpg
Sounds like your 2nd player 10k score reel EOS switch may be shorted.

/Mark

#3 1 year ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

During reset, a switch on the 2nd Player 10k unit should keep the 2nd & 3rd Player Reset (Z2) relay energized until that 10k unit reaches zero. This switch has a Slate wire on one terminal and a Yellow+Green wire on its other terminal.

#4 1 year ago

LJM

DaMoib

Pinside+ Addict

6y 63,150 882

Sorry if I’m misreading your scenario, but you are saying that K locks on during reset under certain conditions? If so…

You should also take a good look at your SB (reset control) relay. The K relay should not be powered during reset, nor should the flippers (are they working?). A make/break switch on SB turns power off to the scoring relays, flippers, pops, etc while the machine is resetting - the switch on SB with RED-BLK and OR+GR wires should be open.

#5 1 year ago

NIC

NickNitro

Pinside member

Quoted from HowardR:
During reset, a switch on the 2nd Player 10k unit should keep the 2nd & 3rd Player Reset (Z2) relay energized until that 10k unit reaches zero. This switch has a Slate wire on one terminal and a Yellow+Green wire on its other terminal.

The only slate wire on my machine near those relays is connected to the Z2 coil

Quoted from DaMoib:
Sorry if I’m misreading your scenario, but you are saying that K locks on during reset under certain conditions? If so…
You should also take a good look at your SB (reset control) relay. The K relay should not be powered during reset, nor should the flippers (are they working?). A make/break switch on SB turns power off to the scoring relays, flippers, pops, etc while the machine is resetting - the switch on SB with RED-BLK and OR+GR wires should be open.

I’ve check the SB relay and that switch opens, also kills the flippers.

I did notice upon further testing that it happens only on a 2 player game. 3-4 player seems fine. But also player 4 when rolling over from 9k to 10k points, it adds 10k to player 2 and 110 to player 3. Not sure if this is related in anyway.

#6 1 year ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

Quoted from HowardR:
During reset, a switch on the 2nd Player 10k unit should keep the 2nd & 3rd Player Reset (Z2) relay energized until that 10k unit reaches zero. This switch has a Slate wire on one terminal and a Yellow+Green wire on its other terminal.

OP
Quoted from NickNitro:
The only slate wire on my machine near those relays is connected to the Z2 coil

(1) I didn't say the Slate wire was on a relay.
(2) What about a Yellow+Green wire?

#7 1 year ago

NIC

NickNitro

Pinside member

Quoted from HowardR:
(1) I didn't say the Slate wire was on a relay.
(2) What about a Yellow+Green wire?

Oh sorry I misread what you meant.
Yes the y+g and slate wire are adjusted correctly on that score reel and is open once it reaches 0 and is normally closed otherwise

#8 1 year ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

If the 2nd Player 10k unit runout switch doesn't keep the 2nd & 3rd Player Reset (Z2) relay energized until that 10k unit reaches zero,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

pasted_image (resized).png

#9 1 year ago

NIC

NickNitro

Pinside member

The Z2 relay does stay energized with the K relay and the score reel coil.

#10 1 year ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from NickNitro:
the player2 10000 point score reel coil stays energized when resetting

This Motor 1A switch should make the player2 10000 point score reel coil pulse instead of staying locked on

pasted_image (resized).png

#11 1 year ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member