Machine is Bally Captain Fantastic. I've restored three other machines that (I thouight) were in much worse condition, so I'm not a newbie. I've always been able to resolve a running score motor. This one was working as well until a few days ago. All the score reels reset to zero with no problem. All the switch gaps are proper. Nothing else runs with the motor except the bonus unit reset solenoid. It's operated by score reel switch 2B. I've checked every switch that can turn on the motor. I checked all possible switches by unplugging the motor while it is running. Every switch that could turn the motor on was open except one in the 300 and 3 Advance relay. If I manually open it, the motor stops. There are two NO switches that control this relay and one NO score motor switch (6B). If I keep 6B open, the motor still runs. The relay engages all the time. If I force it open, the motor stops. I'm not sure what else would control the 300 and 3 relay, but it only has 4 switches. Hope somebody can help.

Thanks to Mopar and TimMe. I'm really confused wth this circuit and not sure where to focus my effort. Here's what I've found. With the switch on the 300 relay (BLU-O), the inner right lane bottom switch (BLU/O - Y) and score motor 6B switch (BLU-W) all open, all will pass a current with an ohmeter with the alternator relay not energized. With the alternator relay in the energized position (manually held), all the switches are dead. I have supected the alternator relay for a while but can't get my head around how to check it. Your guidance is welcomed.

Many thanks for your reply, TimMe. I am pleased to say that I have tried virtually all of the suggestions that you made. I realize the limitation of the ohm meter, but I was mainly just checking to see if I had complete circuits between two points, even if the path was not correct. I have checked and rechecked the blades for shorts, soldering, bent tabs, etc. So far I have found none. One strange occurence did come up that I didn't mention. Up until recently I was unable to get any of the roll over buttons to either work or light up. Then suddenly, with the score motor running as I searched for the cause, the alternator actuation plate started vibrating slightly pulling the switches on and off randomly. Then they started working for a while. Now they don't work at all. I'm fairly certain that my problem is in the alternator relay or the 00-90 unit. I had done some work on the unit because it was very dirty and not working very smoothly. I had more problems after I put it back together. I've gone back over it again and can't find anything wrong with it. The alternator switch that responds to the 10 point relay works perfectly. Another problem I have is just the bad accessibility of some of these relays. The alternator relay has a double row of switches but getting at the bottom row is very difficult. I have the playfield out of the game box (but still connected) but it's still tough.

I really appreciate your help. I'm will go back over the switches to make sure I ddn't miss anything, but if you have any more ideas, I'm all ears.

Thanks Mopar. I checked that circuit several times and can't find anything wrong.

Many thanks for your suggestions. These are tricks I never thought of and I'll be working on them today. I did check the relay for mechanical sticking and it does not stick. It only closes when powered and releases instantly when turned off. I did take the alternator relay off the playfield after I took the playfield off the box. I have the playfield standing on the floor leaning against the box with all connections made. It's easier to work on it and access to the bottom board is much better. I checked all the switches on the alternator relay and cleaned the contacts. All appeared to be in good shape. I did find some funky wiring on the alternator relay coil. There is an orange wire soldered to the red wire lug on the alternator coil and attached to the red wire lug on the gate relay coil. This is not on the schematic. Both the red wire solder joints look solid. I don't see any purpose for the orange wire but I don't think it would affect the alternator relay. Any thoughts on this?

I think your second comment is correct. The orange wire is a thinner gauge than the red wires and has two sloppy solder joints. I'd like to remove it, but now I'm nervous. I don't want to make a bad situation worse. Any suggestions?

I tried your suggestion and disconnected the playfield. When I turned the machine on, the 300-3 ADV relay did not pull in. But then I made another discovery after plugging the PF back in. The alternator coil does not activate at all. According to the schematic, the only thing that turns the alternator on is the single switch on the 00-99 unit. I know it worked before because I would turn the alternator on and off by manually closing the switch. I remember one instance where the alternator coil started to vibrate slowly and then stopped. I suspect the coil may have burned out. It may have been weak before which is what may have prompted the installation of the jumper wire from the nearby gate coil. However, I checked the resistance on the coil and it was 78 ohms. I checked two more identical coils that were working and they were 78 ohms as well. And the spec on the schematic is 78 ohms. I checked the circuit from the 00-90 unit switch to the alternator coil and it appears to be good. Can the coil be bad and still have the correct resistance?

I agree - I'm sticking with the 300/3- ADV coil until I get it sorted out. I thought about the issue of checking the alternator cil in circuit. I'm goin to disconnect it and check it again. When I started working on this, the alternator worked part time as the 00-90 switch opened and closed. Now it doesn't work at all. It seemed that everything that wasn't working properly had the alternator relay in its circuit. I really appreciate your help. I'll keep you posted with my progress (or lack there of).

Hi TinMe: I sent a mesage througfh Pinside but I'm not sure you saw it because I can't figure out how to read a reply. Therefore, I'm going to repeat my early comments. I disconnected the jumper wire from the alternator relay and then disconnected the red power wire. This wire is completely dead. I started searching around and quickly found the other end broken at the flipper coil nearby. The flipper still worked because it had power going to it, but the line from it to the alternator was broken. I also found a broken wire on a slingshot. I'll get these fixed tomorrow and let you know how things are going.

In case anyone is still following this thread, here is an update on my progress. I repaired several broken wires/connections, some that were qute well hidden. Most importantly, I found two roll-over switches that were NC and should have been NO. These are what were causing the score motor to run continuously. I also found a score reel that had a switch adjusted a bit too tight. I opened the gap a bit and now they all reset to zero regularly.

I still can't find the cause of an old problem. When I shut the game off at the main toggle switch, the tens and hundreds score reel in Player 1 position both index one position. The set of Player One reels then reads 0,0,1,1. This only happens to Player One. I've pored over the wiring and schematic, and examined all of the switches and wiring of the score reels, 10 relay, 100 relay and the two score reset relays. I can't find anything wrong. Any ideas would be welcome.

The game now plays, but there are still a number of problems. I feel fairly confident that I'll be able to work them out, but I'll kep you posted.

To clarify, the game is not nearly operational, so I'm turning it on and off often to work out problems. If I start the game, all the reels return to zero, the score motor turns off and the game is ready to play. If I turn off the machine at this point with the toggle, the two reels index one position. If it is in the ready to play set up (everything is on) and I manually activate the game over relay, the reels index one position as before, but the power to the machine is still on.

Your on the right track but not there yet. With all reels at zero, when I step up the Player unit, the 10 and 100 reels on Player one step up. If I step up the Player unit again, the 10 and 100 reel step up on Player 2. If I do it again, they step up on Player 3. The Player unit is actually set on Player 4 at this point. By Score Relay I assume you mean Score Reset Relay and both actuate momentarily as the score motor runs. I also noticed that the Player unit does not step up as you try to add additional players. I've got too many simultaneous problems and it's getting very difficult to sort out which one to address first.

Someone had suggested starting the game with the playfield disconnected from the rest of the game. I did this and did not get the problem with score reels advancing on shutoff. I then decided to ftremove the plafield and carefully check all of the switches. I had previously found two roll-overs thatr were NC instead of NO. This time I found another roll-over, the small wire type, with just a two blade NO. I checked all the switches with an ohm meter and always got no circuit until the switch was closed. On this one, there is a complete circuit wether it is open or closed. I assume there is a short in its circuit somewhere but have not yet been able find it. Does this make any sense or am I screwed up? I'm having trouble finding the switch on the schematic. I thought I had it but the wire colors don't match. If there is a short, it woyuld explain a lot of my problems.

Many thanks for your reply. You've opened up my eyes a bit. It turns out that the chimes (at least one) are stuck on when trying to play and the step up coil on the tens score reel Player 1 is also stuck on. Both are buzzing very loudly when they should be off. I haven't checked the Thumpers yet because they were all woking but their lights don't go on. I'll definitely check them next. Also, the lights on the roll-over stars don't go on but the stars work. I did figure out the mystery roll over switch. It's connected to the gate relay. When the gate is open the switch is shorted by a relay, but when the gate is closed the switch is open. Any clues as to why the above mentioned coils are stuck on would be appreciated.

I made a lot of progress. Thumpers are adjusted, lights are all working and most features seem to be working. The biggest problem is that the 10 point relay will not deenergize. It's keeping the ten score reel solenoid on as well as the chime coils. If I force the 10 point relay off, everything else shuts off as it should. I've tried to address everything on the schematic that can keep the 10 point relay on. There are two roll over buttons that should be NO, but when I check them they seem to be shorted. There is another switch in the 10 point relay circuit called "rebound". There are supposed to be four of these but I can't identify what they are or where they are located. Hope you guys can figure this out.

Figured out the frebound switches. All are just NO bumper type switches. But all act like there shorted. Ohmmeter gives a closed circuit without touching the two blades together. Two roll over switches do the same. All are on the same white-blue wire that powers the 10 point relay. I'm stumped.

Many thanks to all for your assistance. I was reading through some old forum threads on the 10 point relay. One of them suggested checking the EOS switch on the score reel in the tens position. I pulled out the reel for Player One and checked the switch. The long blade that activates the switch was gone - broken off at the base. I was ecstatic when I found this. I have a switch that will work and will get it fixed tomorrow. I'll let you know how it turns out. I can't thank you forum guys enough for all the time to put into this hobby. I would never have found this on my own.

You're both right. I suspected that the broken switch might not be the only problem. I started checking the EOS on other reels. More than half of the switches are out of adjustment so that when the switch should open, it doesn't. I'm going to replace the broken switch and check and adjust all of the others. I've checked closely every switch on the playfield. The switches in the Thumpers were OK except the one at the spoon switch was very close to being closed. I adjusted each one a bit. One of the slingshots has both of its switches way out of adjustment. They would fire only if you pushed the switches in very hard. The other slingshot is perfect. I still need to fix the first one. The rest of the switches on the pf seem to be OK.

My exuberance was short lived. I replaced the bad switch and adjusted the rest of the reels. More features work now that never worked before, but I still cannot get the 10 point relay to shut off. I've gone through every switch on the schematic that controls the 10 point, and cleaned/checked every pf switch and still no luck. I don't understand your suggestion of pulling the plugs. I know that will turn off the 10 point relay but what will that accomplish? I'm thinking about using a bunch of jumpers to connect one of the Jones plugs to the socket. I need 20 to do one plug. I have thirteen, so getting a few more is not a big deal. I could then disconnect one circuit at a time and hopefully isiolate the problem area. Does this make any sense?

Mopar, thanks for the suggestion. The wire going to the 10 point is a white/blue. There's a bunch of them all over the game and I've traced them as best I can. I identified everything on the schematic with a white/blue wire and have been unable to find a switch or device that turns off the 10 point. I'm not sure I can identify the first junction from the jones plug but I will give it a try.

Dono, I missed the switch behind the drop targets, so thanks for that. It's not shorted but it also is not working, so I need to dig into that one. I did check the other one you mentioned.

I still think I might try my idea of jumping the pins to the sockets on each plug and disconnecting one at a time until I get the 10 point off. It won't pinpoint the problem but should get me close.

To all those who assisted: I finally found the culprit keeping my 10 point relay turned on. It was a switch on the bottom of the coin relay, probably the hardest switch to get to in the entire game. It appears to be a NO switch that closes just momenarily as the start up sequence times out. When it closes, it shuts off the 10 point relay, and then opens again. I still have the problem of the tens score reel indexing one position at the end of the sequence. The hundreds score reel no longer indexes. When the start up sequence is nearly over and the 10 point relay is off, the chime rings once and the score reel indexes at the same time. I suspect the problem is in the coin relay as well, I just need to poke around a bit more. Thanks again to all who helped.

I spoke too soon. While the switch on the coin relay does turn off the 10 point relay, it turns off everything else. Nothing on the playfield works except the lights. I'm back to square one.

I'm about at the end of my rope. I've double and triple checked every pf switch. I can't find any stuck or misadjusted switches and I cannot find a switch that turns off the 10 point relay but doesn't turn off the coin relay. They both are powered by a white/blue wire. That wire also goes to the small circuit board on the 1000's score wheel for Player 1. I can't find this circuit on the schematic. Hope someone has an idea.

Good news at last. After watching a video on Pinball Ninja site, I found my problem.. The game has all new rubbers and had a new switch (not by me) put in at one time. The switch was not adjusted properly for the rubber which kept the switch closed all the time. Adjusted the switch and voila, problem solved.

I am now moving on to the next problem. The player up unit is not working at all but I'm sure I can find that problem However, it has been worked on and I don't believe it was reassembled properly. There are a pair of switches that should be activated by a peg on the notched wheel. But if you step the wheel up or down, the peg never contacts the switches. I need some guidance in how to reset the wheel in the right position. I don't know if the peg should be clockwise from the peg or counterclockwise from the peg.