(Topic ID: 260834)

Score motor wire - Aloha

By Tonup69

4 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Tonup69
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Score Motor Switches (resized).jpg
0Fashion-Show-Work-06 (resized).jpg
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#1 4 years ago

I have been trying to track down the switch that is keeping my score motor running. I have a schematic for my 1961 Gottlieb Aloha, but the FOLD in the schematic is right over the wire that shows all of the switches running the score motor!!! Needless to say - I can't read it - I think it's got RED in it, but it could be white with red or orange with red? Anybody know?

Thanks in advance,

LTR

#2 4 years ago

The Score Motor usually has a normally open switch at the 1C position with a red-white wire on one side that keeps it running until it reaches the next index position. It's often the only normally open switch at 1C. That switch is likely in parallel with all the other switches that can make the Score Motor run. If you can find the 1C switch, all the other switches will have the same two wire colors.

/Mark

#3 4 years ago

According to the Aloha motor switch card, the 1C switch that MarkG is referring to is the inside switch of 5.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#4 4 years ago

I actually just took this switch off the score motor last night because a wire fell off - the red/white wire, actually. I did not check to see which switches were open or not. I'll do that tonight. Thanks!

LTR

#5 4 years ago

So I found the switch and the wires. Orange goes to the motor and the Red/White wire is on the other side of the switch. The bad news is that both sides of the switch are hot with my test light. I think the only switch down circuit from this one is the SB on the relay bank. Need to check it again. The other down circuit switches are hot on both sides as well - i.e. Red/White and the Orange side of the switch are both lighting my test light - cleaned and checked them all anyway.

I noticed I can make the motor stop if I unplug the Jones connector to the door switches. Not sure if that means anything, though.

LTR

#6 4 years ago

Hi tonup69
does Your Aloha pin have an K-Coin-Chute-Relay - and it is faulty pulling because the coin-chute-switch on the coin-door is stuck - faulty always closed --- You disconnect the coin-door-jones-plug and the K-Relay stops faulty pulling ?
I do not have the schematics "Aloha" - but "Fashion Show" is only six month younger than "Aloha" - see the switches (in the JPG) that make the motor to run. Please show the snippet of schematics (switches that make the motor to run) from Your pin --- and we do guessing ... Greetings Rolf

0Fashion-Show-Work-06 (resized).jpg0Fashion-Show-Work-06 (resized).jpg
#7 4 years ago

Yes - mine is pretty similar. I will need to take a photo when I get home, but will post it.

#8 4 years ago

Here is the Aloha schematic. Ignore where it says RED.

Score Motor Switches (resized).jpgScore Motor Switches (resized).jpg
#9 4 years ago

Hi tonup69
thanks for the JPG - Yes, looks much the same --- back to Your last sentence in post-5 "I noticed I can ..." and my (kind of) question in post-6 "the K-Relay" - look up in the list of relays in Your schematics the full name of the K-Relay - look in the pin (probably down in the cabinet) - watch the K-Relay with door-wiring plugged-in and watch the K-Relay with door-wiring non-plugged - any difference ? Greetings Rolf

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from Tonup69:

I noticed I can make the motor stop if I unplug the Jones connector to the door switches. Not sure if that means anything, though.

Sounds like the game thinks either a coin chute switch or the replay switch is closed, or otherwise shorted somehow. Rolf's experiment will likely prove that theory.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Sounds like the game thinks either a coin chute switch or the replay switch is closed, or otherwise shorted somehow. Rolf's experiment will likely prove that theory.

Wish this was the problem, but it doesn't appear to be the case. The K-Relay does not pull in or out when the door plug is pulled. The score motor stops, but the relay just stays open. Also, if I manually reset the relay bank, I can hit the start button and this relay will pull once as expected. I checked the switches on the door - one was a bit bent up, but I fixed it. Neither is fouling or anything. Appears to be fine. What about the H relay (30V hold)? Could that be the issue?

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from Tonup69:

The K-Relay does not pull in or out when the door plug is pulled. The score motor stops, but the relay just stays open.

I think you're back to figuring out which switch is making the motor run. Did you ever follow through with this post in the last topic?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aloha-by-gottlieb-score-motor-continues-to-run#post-5408709

Quoted from MarkG:

If that checks out you could see if any of the listed relays are active when the Score Motor is running, or just block all of the switches with a piece of folded paper until you find the one that causes the motor to stop.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Sounds like the game thinks either a coin chute switch or the replay switch is closed, or otherwise shorted somehow. Rolf's experiment will likely prove that theory.

Wish this was the problem, but it doesn't appear to be the case. The K-Relay does not pull in or out when the door plug is pulled. The score motor stops, but the relay just stays open. Also, if I manually reset the relay bank, I can hit the start button and this relay will pull once as expected. I checked the switches on the door - one was a bit bent up, but I fixed it. Neither is fouling or anything. Appears to be fine. What about the H relay (30V hold)? Could that be the issue?

Quoted from MarkG:

I think you're back to figuring out which switch is making the motor run. Did you ever follow through with this post in the last topic?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aloha-by-gottlieb-score-motor-continues-to-run#post-5408709

I did, but I used a test light. Problem seems like it has to be that SB relay. I can't see anything obviously wrong with it, but I'll keep trying. Feels like it could be two wires touching and not the switch itself.

1 week later
#14 4 years ago

BUMP! Still stumped on this one. Fixing various wires that have come undone from age - no help. Cleaning switches - no help. Door not the problem. It was only going on/off due to the cheater switch needing to be connected. Now the 30V hold relay is not engaging and the tilt for player one is stuck on. All of this while the score motor continues to run and run. Can't figure out where the power is from, but all of the switches in the schematic are ope as they should be.

Suggestions? Ready to attack it again....

LTR

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from Tonup69:

BUMP! Still stumped on this one. Fixing various wires that have come undone from age - no help. Cleaning switches - no help. Door not the problem. It was only going on/off due to the cheater switch needing to be connected. Now the 30V hold relay is not engaging and the tilt for player one is stuck on. All of this while the score motor continues to run and run. Can't figure out where the power is from, but all of the switches in the schematic are ope as they should be.
Suggestions? Ready to attack it again....
LTR

Still stuck on this if anyone has suggestions for trouble shooting the score motor. I am going to deal with another issue on a different post.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I think you're back to figuring out which switch is making the motor run. Did you ever follow through with this post in the last topic?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aloha-by-gottlieb-score-motor-continues-to-run#post-5408709

Quoted from Tonup69:

I did, but I used a test light.

I don't know what that means. Can you elaborate? Did you block all of the switches that can send power to the Score Motor with bits of paper at the same time? Did you check if their solder tabs are bent together or if there is a solder bridge between the switch blades?

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I don't know what that means. Can you elaborate? Did you block all of the switches that can send power to the Score Motor with bits of paper at the same time? Did you check if their solder tabs are bent together or if there is a solder bridge between the switch blades?

Yes. I also blocked the switches, checked the gaps, cleaned them, looked for solder bombs and anything else I could think of doing - I'm at a loss. I was starting to consider unsoldering the orange/slate lead from each switch until the motor stops. It MUST be one of them, right?

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Tonup69:

Yes. I also blocked the switches, checked the gaps, cleaned them, looked for solder bombs and anything else I could think of doing - I'm at a loss. I was starting to consider unsoldering the orange/slate lead from each switch until the motor stops. It MUST be one of them, right?

Sometimes it helps to do a sanity check when you're at this point, even though it must be one (or more) of those switches based on the schematics. Have you verified that the wiring you have matches the schematics and number of switches? Also, how are all the orange/slate wires connected - daisy-chained from one switch to the next, and the final one leads to the score motor?

If you're to the point of desoldering for sanity checks, you might try disconnecting the final wire to the score motor first. If it's still running then you have something really screwy going on. If it stops, you can put it back and then disconnect half the switches in the chain. Then repeat eliminating half the switches until you find the one making the difference. If you've already tried blocking / opening all the switches simultaneously (not individually, in case more than one was closed), then perhaps this will help find a stack that is shorted near the screws.

#19 4 years ago

EUREKA! I did it the hard way and just un-soldered each orange/slate wire from each switch on the schematic until I found one that stopped the score motor. In case you are interested, it was relay C (Kicker Relay). I can't see anything wrong with the switch and after soldering all of the wires back, the motor stops as it should. When I say that, it's because there are still two major issues, but at least the score motor stopped running endlessly. I will post the other issues in a new topic. This one is resolved.

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