Scared Stiff Power Problem (A\V board?)

Hi
I restaured a SS from scratch and now I have some problems with it..

When I power on the game:
1) Fuse F109 (12v unreg) burn
2) Only the backbox lights are ON
3) Led501 on AudioVisual board is dead.
4) Leds on CPU board are also dead
5) Leds on power board 100/101/102 (12v/5v/18v) are solid red and I have 0VDC

If I remove J606 from the AudioVisual board, the playfield lights up and the 3 Leds on CPU do what they should (solid, blinking, off). Speakers and ColorDMD are not working (Led501 is still dead on the AudioVisual board.

I took measurments on wires connecting at J605 on the AudioVisual board ( the board doesn't seem to get the right power).
I get:

1 =37V
2 =39V
3 =0
4 = 48V
5 = 3,64V
6 = 4,30V
7 = 6,65
8 = 9,30V
9 = key
10 = 17,60V
11 = 17,60V

From the manual, 1&2 should be 80VAC and 3&4 at 100VAC

What can burn F109 (12v unreg) and what shoud I do with my J605 power?

thank you very much!!

#2 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Fuse F109 was burning because my ColorDMD power connector was upside down

still nothing happening

#3 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Can you post pictures of the power driver board and A/V board with the wiring connected and the power turned on?

When did the problem start?

#4 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Hi
Thank you for your Time!
The game was working great. I did a playfield swap, rebuild the cabinet, good cleaning of the boards, etc...I did a Vid1900 of myself

I think the game is a german reimport because the « power box » inside the cab was written in german and some wires have been cut. This hack was working good so I didnt touch it.

Let me know if you need anything else!

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#5 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Currently, I see 2 LEDs out on your power driver board. Is that because the fuse is blown or the coin door is open?

#6 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Currently, I see 2 LEDs out on your power driver board. Is that because the fuse is blown or the coin door is open?

Coindoor is open

#7 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

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Are they on with the door closed?

#8 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

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All leds on Power board are ON when coindoor is close.
First led (100) is registering 12v and second one (101) 2.6v

Leds on CPU and A/V are still OFF.

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#9 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

With power off, can you do a diode test on these 4 diodes? I think one may be shorted.
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#10 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

All 4 are scoring 485 with black on cathode.
With red on cathode it goes between 800-900. It sometime starts with a bip from multimeter but it never goes to 0L

#11 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Were those D19-D22? I don't have a board to look at. 12v gets converted to 5v in that area.

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#12 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

I have to go but I’ll let you know tmorrow morning! Your help is really appreciated!
Lou

#13 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

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I would not be surprised if @zaza pops in with other suggestions.

#14 4 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

Try to boot without the 2 ribboncables on top of the cpu board and do connect J606 and see what happens.
The led on the av-board is not a power LED

#15 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from zaza:
The led on the av-board is not a power LED

Very interesting!! I never really paid attentioned to that LED, nor have I looked on the schematic for its function.

#16 4 years ago

FNG

DumbAss

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 109K 2,978

Quoted from zaza:
The led on the av-board is not a power LED

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Very interesting!! I never really paid attentioned to that LED, nor have I looked on the schematic for its function.

My understanding (and experience from diagnostics and repair) is that the LED is an indicator of AV ASIC functionality.

#17 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Great to have a dedicated team on my problem! @zaza is one of the best assets of this forum. Thanks!

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Were those D19-D22? I don't have a board to look at. 12v gets converted to 5v in that area.
[quoted image]

These are the same you asked before

Quoted from zaza:
Try to boot without the 2 ribboncables on top of the cpu board and do connect J606 and see what happens.
The led on the av-board is not a power LED

Nothing different

FYI I added the leds meaning from the manual.

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#18 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Is it normal to get these voltages in A/V board J-605 from transformer secondary?
I measure way less than the manual..

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#19 4 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
Nothing different

If the cpu still doesn't boot without J201/J102, it seems that the av-board is pulling the 5 volt down.
Inspect the av-board closely, especially soundROM S2, difficult to see on my little screen but it looks wrong orientared. If so, it is likely blown now.

About the Vac measurments, you don't measure Vac from GND to live. And be careful there, this is high voltage

#20 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Not sure what side S2 should be but it wasn’t on the same side as S3&S4...
I switch side but nothing different.

Does it mean the soundrom is blown and with a new one the problem might get solve?

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#21 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from zaza:
especially soundROM S2, difficult to see on my little screen but it looks wrong orientared

Wow! Didn't see that one either! Sweet catch!

#22 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
Is it normal to get these voltages in A/V board J-605 from transformer secondary?
I measure way less than the manual..[quoted image][quoted image]

It seems you are testing AC against the backbox ground. Correct way to measure those AC voltages is to measure along the hot and return for each pair of transformer windings.

ex. You have to measure VAC on pins 1 and 2 to test 80VAC and measure 3 and 4 to test 100VAC.
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#23 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

What do you think zaza ?
I should buy a new soundROM and we’ll see?

Last question: does it matter which way you solder pop bumper flasher under PF?
Since I can test lamps and flashers when I unplug J606 from A/V board and by closing the coindoor, everything looks fine exept the 3 pop bumper flasher.
When I test light leads under PF with a battery, it lights no matter the polarity I try. Does it mean it’s the samething when I solder the wire on the light? I wish I could be clearer

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#24 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
I should buy a new soundROM and we’ll see?

Turn it around and give it a try. Be nice to see if the game will boot correctly, but your sounds may be dead. On occasion, get lucky.

#25 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Turn it around and give it a try. Be nice to see if the game will boot correctly, but your sounds may be dead. On occasion, get lucky.

No success
Thanks for your input

#26 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
No success
Thanks for your input

No boot or no sound? Try removing the part that was in backwards. For sure no sounds if it is removed. Just mainly interested to see if you can get the game booting again, even if it is without sound.

#27 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Samething with or without de SoundRom.

No Images on DMD
No sounds
No lights on PF

Only things working are those connected on the power board or coindoor board: underlight cab, flipper buttons, colle DMD, speaker lights, eyes on the boney beast.

It looks like the A/V board is not working

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#28 4 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
What do you think zaza ?
I should buy a new soundROM and we’ll see?

Don't know. You already tried to boot without S2-ROM and still had no cpu-boot so I think someting is very wrong with av-board.
Final test would be to to pull all eproms fron av-board and see if it will at least boot with display.

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
Last question: does it matter which way you solder pop bumper flasher under PF?

If the sockets are wedge it doesn't matter. Some LED flashers are polarity sensitive but that would only be problem for bajonet socket.

#29 4 years ago

AAA

pintechev

Inactive member

11y 91,300 4,437

Just confirming: that AV board worked prior to your restoration?

#30 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from pintechev:
Just confirming: that AV board worked prior to your restoration?

Yes. 100%
electronic is not my strong suit so I only cleaned boards and labeled connectors carefully. Nothing has been add or remove after resto.

Nothing different when I remove all roms. DMD is still powered but no signal.

Like I said first, when I remove J606 from A/V board everything comes alive exept for flashers/sound/colordmd signal.
I can’t test solenoids so I guess not

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#31 4 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
electronic is not my strong suit so I only cleaned boards

This board is very electrostatic sensitive.
Not working esd-safe can result in a not working board.

#32 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

I will find another board. I will let you know
Thanks
Lou

#33 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Rottendog does have a lifetime warranty on their boards. It is sounding like it has at least one issue. Trying another A/V board was about to be my next suggestion if you had one available so we know the MPU, driver and ColorDMD are good.

OP
Quoted from ElectricLou:
Fuse F109 was burning because my ColorDMD power connector was upside down

^^^ Since you found this, there is a chance the ColorDMD board was damaged. I think I recall someone else reporting that in another thread. [email protected] is their email. Maybe Dmod will be able to tell us for sure.

#34 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

I will switch for another A/V board and see if it’s booting the CPU. If it’s working And the colorDmd is still dead, i will test with my old DMD

#35 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Good morning!

This morning I put back the 3 Roms in the A/V Board and tried a last Time: power is on! Led501 on A/V board is solid red and CPU is powered.
Only the colorDMD and sound are not working.
I read that Led501 should be blinking...at least it's a start!

I know the colordmd is not fried because I can access its menues. But it shows only a white screen.
For the sound, all connections are straight foward and nothing happens. Not even the boot sound.

WoW. Progress! I might have plugged the ROMs incorrectly at first.

I Guess my next step is to try another S2 ROM ( the one I previously plugged backward)?

What can cause the color DMD failure? Another ROM fried? Something else on the A/B?
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Post last edited 4 years ago: “adding details”

#36 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Did you find another A/V board yet to test with?

Close up of the ColorDMD board please. Mentioned before, applying power backwards likely damaged something beyond the menu.

#37 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Not yet...

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#38 4 years ago

MIK

Phantasize

Pinside member

Randers

8y 44,050 481 14

I would try testing with the original DMD just in case.

#39 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Phantasize:
I would try testing with the original DMD just in case.

I can’t find the DMD orignal cable. Damn it!

#40 4 years ago

LOU

ElectricLou

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Hello
I changed the A/V board and everything’s fine now!
Thanks for your help! I Learn everyday!
Lou

#41 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

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